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Post by Kitchen Sink on Oct 16, 2013 10:31:21 GMT -5
IX, XI and XXVII
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Oct 16, 2013 10:50:26 GMT -5
I'll say this in defense of 11:
- The graphic design/color scheme was probably the sleekest and coolest looking they had at that point. The neon purple motif may not have been as quite a successful atmospheric distraction as the colosseum at IX, but it did the best it could with giving it a cool look.
- Salt N Pepa's performance of a re-written "Whatta Man" is the single best musical performance at a Wrestlemania and there is no argument. Not only was it a certified HUGE song at the time, but they were big enough wrestling fans to REWRITE THE LYRICS TO BE ABOUT THE MATCH AND LT-Bam Bam's conflict! While it sucks that it's been cut from every single home video release, I don't see what more you could want from a musical performance.
- It may not seem like it now, but the celebrities on-hand were probably the biggest array of actual mainstream celebrities that Wrestlemania had since the first one. You had cast members from the two biggest shows on TV, the number one teen star, the biggest name on MTV and one of the hottest and most respected musical acts in the country.
- It's a bad show, but realistically speaking, screwy finishes aside it's the absolute best they could have possibly done. Everyone points to 1-2-3 Kid, but he was injured and not cleared to compete. They point to Bulldog, but he'd just returned and it would have been waaaay too soon to turn him heel. Really, I think the only reason this isn't given as much flack as 9 or 13 or 27 is because if you look at the roster, there's really not a whole lot of fantasy booking you can do. They were plagued with both injuries and roster shake-ups, and on paper (or, if you're me at age 9, off the back of a VHS tape at Blockbuster) it doesn't read like a card as terrible as it actually is.
That said, even considering all of Wrestlemania 9, 11, 13, 2000, 25 and 29's shortcomings, the ONLY Wrestlemania that you can say is entirely INCONSEQUENTIAL is 27. You could have watched Elimination Chamber 2011, skipped to Extreme Rules 2011 and not missed a single thing.
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Post by Todd Pettengill on Oct 16, 2013 11:00:04 GMT -5
I'll say this in defense of 11: - The graphic design/color scheme was probably the sleekest and coolest looking they had at that point. The neon purple motif may not have been as quite a successful atmospheric distraction as the colosseum at IX, but it did the best it could with giving it a cool look. - Salt N Pepa's performance of a re-written "Whatta Man" is the single best musical performance at a Wrestlemania and there is no argument. Not only was it a certified HUGE song at the time, but they were big enough wrestling fans to REWRITE THE LYRICS TO BE ABOUT THE MATCH AND LT-Bam Bam's conflict! While it sucks that it's been cut from every single home video release, I don't see what more you could want from a musical performance. - It may not seem like it now, but the celebrities on-hand were probably the biggest array of actual mainstream celebrities that Wrestlemania had since the first one. You had cast members from the two biggest shows on TV, the number one teen star, the biggest name on MTV and one of the hottest and most respected musical acts in the country. - It's a bad show, but realistically speaking, screwy finishes aside it's the absolute best they could have possibly done. Everyone points to 1-2-3 Kid, but he was injured and not cleared to compete. They point to Bulldog, but he'd just returned and it would have been waaaay too soon to turn him heel. Really, I think the only reason this isn't given as much flack as 9 or 13 or 27 is because if you look at the roster, there's really not a whole lot of fantasy booking you can do. They were plagued with both injuries and roster shake-ups, and on paper (or, if you're me at age 9, off the back of a VHS tape at Blockbuster) it doesn't read like a card as terrible as it actually is. That said, even considering all of Wrestlemania 9, 11, 13, 2000, 25 and 29's shortcomings, the ONLY Wrestlemania that you can say is entirely INCONSEQUENTIAL is 27. You could have watched Elimination Chamber 2011, skipped to Extreme Rules 2011 and not missed a single thing. The quantity of celebrities were brought in to cover up the holes in the roster. They knew this one was going to be a stinker.
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Post by The Gambler Fan on Oct 16, 2013 11:21:18 GMT -5
13 was awful. One good match does not make the event good.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Oct 16, 2013 11:27:55 GMT -5
All the ones said I can agree on. 15 was saved by Rock and Austin. Which it's a shame that the hottest time of Attitude era gave us one of the worst WMs. WM 11 didn't feel like WM because the small ass arena in Hartford!?! 12 wasn't that bad because I enjoyed the backlot Brawl for the entertainment, Taker and Diesel was a good big man fight, The iron man just took forever to get a faster pass going. It was a great for the last 20 mins.
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Post by xCompackx on Oct 16, 2013 11:31:55 GMT -5
27 and 29, for sure. 27 was a poorly booked, poorly conceived mess of shit and 29 was just a blatant "Here's some rematches, give me money" event that was just made so Cena and HHH could get their wins back (and I say that as a fan of HHH), and the yearly Undertaker match.
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Boomaga
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Post by Boomaga on Oct 16, 2013 11:37:14 GMT -5
13 is saved by the fact that it has the greatest WrestleMania match of all time (IMO, at least) in Bret vs. Austin.
I'd say that a lot of the early 'Manias are pretty rough to watch, and are devoid of truly memorable matches, specifically 1, 2 and 4. 3 clearly has some huge moments, and 5 at least gave us a good Hogan vs. Savage match and was the start of what I consider the modern view of WrestleMania.
From there, the worst of the bunch are 9, 11, and 15. 9 has no good matches, but a very unique setup. 11 is awful for all the reasons previously listed, and 15 is pretty much the epitome of Attitude-Era overbooking. For most of the card, they poured the entire roster into a blender and not much good came out. When X-Pac vs. Shane McMahon is the best match you can put on, your show has problems. 2000 had the same blender problem, and was also exceptionally bad, but at least it had ONE match worth rewatching in the Triple Threat Ladder Match.
27 is easily the worst of the last 10 years, but I've actually found it pretty entertaining upon rewatching. HHH vs. Undertaker is still great, and you can appreciate the effort of Cody vs. Mysterio and Punk vs. Orton. It's not a great show, but not a terrible one either. However, bad main events often leave an overall bad taste in your mouth about the show, and Cena vs. Miz is one of the worst. I know a lot of people crap on 25, but I actually found it to be a pretty good undercard (besides the Divas Battle Royale and JBL vs. Mysterio) with a terrible main event that also rubbed people the wrong way.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Oct 16, 2013 11:47:55 GMT -5
all time? 11 (seriously, who the hell Bam Bam vs. a football player should be the main event?)
in recent history, though, 27 was pretty frakking terrible. it was like watching every singlee flaw with WWE being exaggerated without enough self-awareness to qualify as a parody.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Oct 16, 2013 12:00:42 GMT -5
WM 27 is the worst of the modern era IMO. It sucks to say that because I attended that one...on my birthday to boot. There were some good matches but only 2 title matches, Sheamus/Bryan being bumped to the preshow and turning into a battle royal, terrible main event and no title changes or important moments. Even HHH/Taker was meaningless since they had a bigger match the next year. WM 28 was booked pretty poorly, the opening match ruined the first hour of the show for me.
As far as older WM's, I think 11, 12 and 13 were all pretty poor save for maybe one or two matches on each show. 15 was pretty bad but some of the undercard matches were fun as well as the main event.
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Post by Stu on Oct 16, 2013 13:57:35 GMT -5
Now that I think about it, we should consider all factors. A lot of people are judging shows based on match qualities, which is still a major factor. But let's also consider the venues, angles/storylines, crowd, and the overall spectacle and atmosphere. And hell, sometimes even having a bad moment helps as long as it's memorable. Here are some thoughts:
- WrestleMania IX. Yes, it's looked down on for good reason. But compared to what we usually got during that period, it was interesting to see an outdoor WrestleMania with a Roman theme. At the very least, the overall concept deviated from the norm and the lasting image of the "arena" is different. And hell, it had a twist ending involving Hulk Hogan. At least the WWF tried to make show come off as a big deal. As for matches, yes, Undertaker/Gonzales was bad. But everything else was watchable. And hell, Crush/Doink wasn't a great match, but the ending was fun.
- WrestleMania XI. The celebrities. That's what WrestleMania has always been about (at least, back then). Again, in this case, it was all about the spectacle. However, as others mentioned, the match quality was bad and the venue left a lot to be desired. And despite what I said about celebrities adding to the show, that doesn't mean one should be in the main event, much less against someone who isn't even a main eventer.
- WrestleMania XII. The thing that hurt this show was the lack of matches. Otherwise, it has the first WrestleMania Iron Man match, featuring Shawn Michael's first WWF Championship win, along with his memorable entrance. It also could be seen as a pivotal chapter in the Michaels/Hart feud. The Anaheim Pond was far from a bad venue at the time, and the show also featured the infamous Triple H/Ultimate Warrior match.
- WrestleMania XV. Two many swerves and the overall quality wasn't great. But at least it featured a major Austin/Rock match and the crowd wasn't bad. And considering this was the Attitude Era, it's sort of fun to go back and rewatch things for nostalgia's sake.
- WrestleMania XXVII. By this point, WrestleMania had been based on a format used and abused for several years. The only difference was that The Rock was there. And other than that and The Miz's entrance video, what do we remember?
Taking all this into account, I'm going to lean toward WrestleMania XXVII being the worst, only slightly nudging out XI. Yes, I'm saying WrestleMania IX is not the worst.
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khali
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Post by khali on Oct 16, 2013 15:25:53 GMT -5
The very fact that 27 had a couple good matches (and I really like the Taker/Triple H match) eliminates it from contention for me, as the have been Manias with ZERO good matches.
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Oct 16, 2013 15:27:42 GMT -5
XI is the worst for me. Not one redeeming quality in that thing.
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spagett
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Post by spagett on Oct 16, 2013 15:36:15 GMT -5
XI is the worst for me. Not one redeeming quality in that thing. Yeah I can't see how it can be any Wrestlemania other than 11. Maybe 2 but it's unfair to compare the early ones. The best thing on 11 is a decent match between Shawn Michaels and Nash. The rest is dull rubbish.
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TGM
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Post by TGM on Oct 16, 2013 17:12:58 GMT -5
WM 11 still sets the standard for the worst. Only seven matches, dead crowd in a small arena in what is not a Wrestlemania-caliber city, and a football player is in the main event. Agreed but LT absolutely smashed it in that match. If only it went on a little earlier.
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Post by Instant Classic on Oct 16, 2013 17:14:16 GMT -5
Judging off the ones I've seen, Mania 27 and 29.
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Post by The Beast Disincarnate on Oct 16, 2013 18:07:23 GMT -5
Let's be honest, most of Wrestlemanias are bad. We got a golden period between WM13 and WM21 maybe but the earlier are mostly boring and the later are incredibly big letdowns apart from a few gems drowning in a ocean of mediocrity.
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Gummydavidson
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Post by Gummydavidson on Oct 17, 2013 9:02:29 GMT -5
Suprisied Wrestlemania 29 hasn't been mentioned a lot, I didn't mind the show much but a lot of people seemed to hate on it.
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Oct 17, 2013 10:53:30 GMT -5
I've only seen bits and pieces of the 'Mania's prior to 13 but I've seen every one since, most with multiple viewings and the first one that sprung to mind was 27. We've not had a good 'Mania since 26 in my opinion and even that one wasn't minsblowingly good it was more solid than anything else. But 27 was really bad, from the awful main event to the Cole/Lawler match. Orton/Punk and Cody/Rey were both decent but hardly set the world alight and Taker/HHH singlehandedly saved the show from being completely abysmal. Not exactly 'Mania material. 28 wasn't exactly brilliant either but a lot more acceptable. I don't remember anything about 29 apart from the awful Brock/HHH and Rock/Cena matches and the excellent (although not as good as the last four years) streak match.
So yeah, recent 'Mania's have sucked in general with 27 being the worst.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2013 11:47:40 GMT -5
Aside from the obvious mention of 9, there have been few WrestleManias that I've seen that I would refer to as legitimately bad. The mediocre ones like 2000, 25 and 27 at least had a few good matches on them. The only ones I would say are actually bad are 15 and 18. For the former, Rock/Austin can't make up for the rest of the card, which is a whole lot of nothing; the latter is controversial but I was never a Hogan fan, so him vs. Rock did nothing for me, and the rest of that card is really weak.
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Post by CMWaters on Oct 17, 2013 11:54:28 GMT -5
WrestleMania 27 I've pretty much renamed "WrestleMania 28 Part 1", considering the two biggest matches (Miz/Cena and Taker/HHH) would lead to next year's show (Rock/Cena 1 and "End of an Era")
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