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Post by Hulk With A Mustache on Oct 30, 2013 14:52:28 GMT -5
It made no sense. I'll explain:
I was watching the 1988 Survivor Series recently, and at the big 20-man Tag Team elimination match, at the end, it was Demolition and The Conquistadors against The Powers Of Pain (who were the faces). During this, Mr. Fuji, Demolition's manager, held up the ropes as Smash backed into them, causing him to fall to the outside and get counted out. Ax confronted Fuji about this, who justified it by saying he felt that Demolition couldn't beat the Powers Of Pain. And, when Ax turned his back, Fuji hit him with his cane. Now, to be fair, Fuji shouldn't have done that; but Demolition responded by beating him up. Now, Fuji was basically an old man with a cane; and beating up an old man with a cane is something heels would do. After Demolition left, the Powers Of Pain helped Fuji up and took him to their corner. And, Fuji helped them win the match tripping up one of the Conquistadors. So, the Powers won and celebrated with Fuji; and then Demolition came back out and attacked them.
But, here's the thing: for some reason, this whole scenario made Demolition faces and The Powers Of Pain heels. I just don't understand how beating up an old man with a cane a good guy and helping out said old man makes you a bad guy.
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Post by jason1980s on Oct 30, 2013 15:08:59 GMT -5
The old man with a cane with the "devious Mr. Fuji" and he was running the wrestlemania 5K (at least the start) without the cane. Sad he aged so quickly from late 80s to early 90s where it seems like he was so frail.
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Post by molson5 on Oct 30, 2013 15:32:52 GMT -5
Fuji didn't really have much villainous heat by then, so ya, I can see how that came off to you, but the idea was that he was EVIL. Back in the day, guys switched from heel to face often, but for managers it was extremely rare, so they were wrestling's moral compass. When a new guy debuted, you could tell whether he was a heel or a face based on what manager he associated with, or what manager he criticized. Beating heel managers was thus always justified, and associating with them was always heelish.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2013 15:33:03 GMT -5
Everyone hated Mr. Fuji though and he was a heel manager. So when the Powers of Pain helped Mr. Fuji, they took on the heel turn.
Honestly, I felt like this could have been done better, and they should have kept the Powers of Pain as faces. Does anyone know why they did this? Powers of Pain split after this and then we got nothing from them.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 30, 2013 15:56:09 GMT -5
It fell flat that night because there was no build-up to it. No subtleties in Fuji that he was angry, or wanted to betray them. And nothing the Powers of Pain did came across as heelish in the weeks leading up to foreshadow it. It just happened as it did and confused everyone.
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Post by BorneAgain on Oct 30, 2013 16:01:33 GMT -5
That whole angle felt less like a double turn, and more like an odd attempt at turning Fuji face.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Oct 30, 2013 16:28:29 GMT -5
The senselessness of that double-turn has long been a hot topic in fan discussions. Long story short, it just wasn't executed very well.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Oct 30, 2013 17:17:58 GMT -5
Everyone hated Mr. Fuji though and he was a heel manager. So when the Powers of Pain helped Mr. Fuji, they took on the heel turn. Honestly, I felt like this could have been done better, and they should have kept the Powers of Pain as faces. Does anyone know why they did this? Powers of Pain split after this and then we got nothing from them. The Powers of Pain wouldn't split for another year and a half.
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Post by Hulk With A Mustache on Oct 30, 2013 19:37:43 GMT -5
Everyone hated Mr. Fuji though and he was a heel manager. So when the Powers of Pain helped Mr. Fuji, they took on the heel turn. Honestly, I felt like this could have been done better, and they should have kept the Powers of Pain as faces. Does anyone know why they did this? Powers of Pain split after this and then we got nothing from them. All I know about the Powers Of Pain was that I always felt that they were bigger Road Warriors rip-offs than Demolition.
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Post by celticjobber on Oct 31, 2013 0:01:19 GMT -5
But Fuji was just so devious...
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Post by Aceorton on Oct 31, 2013 10:36:32 GMT -5
Interesting numbers:
Fuji was 53 when that show took place. Ax was 40. Smash was 29.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Oct 31, 2013 11:00:40 GMT -5
If it happened in this decade, there would be "fire Russo" chants. But since it was the '80s, it's all good.
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Post by wildojinx on Oct 31, 2013 14:09:58 GMT -5
Its almost as if they needed to turn Demolition face no matter what (and since they were getting face pops by this time, it was likely this).
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,401
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Oct 31, 2013 17:12:21 GMT -5
Eh, they don't all need to be memorable. Though, when it's your #1 tag team, it probably should be, though besides Macho's turn, how many were really memorable back then anyway?
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Post by cabbageboy on Oct 31, 2013 18:03:41 GMT -5
The weird aspect is that Fuji did this at the end of a massive 40 minute long survivor match. But then I've never understood the whole proactive manager turn on someone. At least when Paul Ellering ditched LOD for DOA in 1998 the writing was on the wall that LOD were washed up. But Demolition in 1988? They were utterly dominant. They had been tag champs since WM 4. If you're Fuji why not at least wait until Demolition showed signs of wearing down? Maybe if they had lost a non title match to the Powers, or were struggling in some way? As it was, Fuji ditched his tag champs for a challenging team that ended up jobbing every time out to Demolition.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Oct 31, 2013 22:28:26 GMT -5
Everyone hated Mr. Fuji though and he was a heel manager. So when the Powers of Pain helped Mr. Fuji, they took on the heel turn. Honestly, I felt like this could have been done better, and they should have kept the Powers of Pain as faces. Does anyone know why they did this? Powers of Pain split after this and then we got nothing from them. The Powers of Pain were excellent faces, and until the heel turn were actually pretty good in the ring. The heel turn seemed to sap a lot of energy from their performances, leaving them slow and plodding. As for why they turned, Demolition were getting face pops and the Powers of Pain were the most credible team to face them at the time. Just looking at the other heel teams in the Survivor Series match (The Brain Busters, The Rougeaus, The Bolsheviks, The Conquistadors) only Arn and Tully weren't seen as job fodder. The Powers of Pain had been built up from the start as going after Demolition, and turning one without the other would have neutered months of build. Rather interestingly, the Powers of Pain actually reformed on house shows in early-'92 and worked a series of matches against The New Foundation. I'd have marked hard if it had made TV.
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Nov 1, 2013 3:12:58 GMT -5
The Bulldogs were getting a renewed push and shot an angle with Demolition.
Taped 9/13/88; Indianapolis, IN; Market Square Arena 10/8/88 WWF Tag Team Champions Demolition (w/ Mr. Fuji) defeated Tommy Angel & DJ Peterson at 2:20 when Ax pinned Angel following the Decapitation; after the bout, Ax threw Peterson out of the ring and hit the Decapitation on Angel before Davey Boy Smith & the Dynamite Kid made the save, with Dynamite eventually landing the diving headbutt on Smash after being thrown by Smith
The Dynamite Kid backstage fight with Jacques Rougeau happened not long after this angle. The Bulldogs gave their notice after the fight which might have influenced switching Demolition and Powers of Pain. Incidentally the reason the Rougeus were jobbed out so early in the Survivor Series match was so that they could leave the arena and thus avoid a now unemployed by the WWF Dynamite Kid.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Nov 1, 2013 3:43:57 GMT -5
Back in the 80's, a lot of face turns came at the expense of a heel manager, so it's really not THAT hard to comprehend. If a manager and a wrestler get into it, usually the wrestler is "standing up for himself" and freeing himself from the bad manager.
The only time I recall a manager turning face on a split was Jimmy Hart when he was sickened by the Beefcake attack.
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Post by willywonka666 on Nov 1, 2013 8:15:37 GMT -5
Fuji needed that cane as much as Cornette needed a tennis racket.
I didn't recall that Fuji claimed he didn't think his team could beat the Powers, so that in itself was enough to make Demolition faces.
Splitting the Powers of Pain up was a really shitty idea
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Nov 1, 2013 8:54:37 GMT -5
Splitting the Powers of Pain up was a really shitty idea It was, but by all accounts it was one of the conditions of the Road Warriors signing contracts.
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