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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2013 0:26:51 GMT -5
Lets see if I can name 50 WWF/E people since 1985 better than HHH off the top of my head without looking at a list of wrestlers, these won't be in any order.
1 HBK 2 Jericho 3 Angle 4 Austin 5 Rock 6 Steamboat 7 Bret Hart 8 Randy Savage 9 Eddie Guerrero 10 Undertaker 11 Daniel Bryan 12 CM Punk 13 John Cena 14 Ted Dibiase 15 Ric Flair 16 Brock Lesnar 17 Hogan 18 Scott Hall 19 Chris Benoit 20 Jake Roberts 21 Mr Perfect 22 Roddy Piper 23 Goldust 24 Jimmy Snuka 25 Ziggler 26 RVD 27 Paul London 28 Shelton Benjamin 29 Brian Kendrick 30 Owen Hart 31 Kane 32 Finlay 33 Edge 34 Christian 35 Jeff Hardy 36 Bob Backlund 37 Davey Boy 38 DDP 39 Goldberg 40 Dean Malenko 41 Lance Storm 42 Terry Funk 43 Cesaro 44 Big Boss Man 45 Booker T 46 Rick Martel 47 Dean Ambrose 48 Brian Pillman 49 Regal 50 Cody Rhodes.
Things aren't looking too good for HHH, especially since for every one person on the list someone disputes, I bet I could actually look up a list of WWE wrestlers from the past and replace them with 3 more.
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Nov 2, 2013 0:32:55 GMT -5
If we talk top WWE stars since '85, I'd say these would be ahead of him: 1-Hogan 2-Rock 3-Austin 4-Andre 5-HBK 6-Bret 7-Taker 8-Cena 9-Rey Mysterio 10-Macho 11-Brock Lesnar 12-Diesel 13-Piper 14-Flair 15-Kurt Angle 16-Triple H
The first 3 need no explanation, Andre at 4 because he was still a draw even when he was at the end of his career, 5-7 kinda went hand in hand as they carried the new generation of the WWF, Cena is 8 because he is really the biggest draw after the attitude era, Rey at 9 because he is so popular, he makes them money even when he's hurt. I ranked 10-16, but they could be interchangeable because none of those guys were truly top guys, as they were overshadowed by others from the top of the list, however I think Macho is cemented at 10 because he was probably the most popular out of the bunch.
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Nov 2, 2013 0:57:40 GMT -5
f*** that, he's top 10 at least IMO. He's such a great heel that people on this very board won't shut up about how much they hate him whenever he comes up. yeah pretty much this.
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Nov 2, 2013 0:58:51 GMT -5
He's in my top 10.
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Post by psychokiller on Nov 2, 2013 1:01:52 GMT -5
f*** that, he's top 10 at least IMO. He's such a great heel that people on this very board won't shut up about how much they hate him whenever he comes up. yeah pretty much this. The thing is a lot of people hate him in an "X-Pac heat" way. Not the same as hating him because he's a good heel. Some just truly don't like seeing him in general whether he's a face or a heel.
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Post by Old Jack Burton on Nov 2, 2013 1:59:31 GMT -5
I consider a wrestler to entail everything that has to do with the business. If you had stated "best in the ring" it would be a different story.
That said, he is easily top 20, and perhaps edges into the top 10 imo.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Nov 2, 2013 2:17:42 GMT -5
I'm the farthest thing from a HHH fan but based on the criteria he would probably make my top 50. I've been watching since 85 and have been pretty hardcore up til then. Based on mic skills, ring work, presence, psychology I'm sure he'd get a spot. Guys I'd put ahead of him off the top of my head -
Austin Rock Hogan Savage Bret HBK Flair Mr Perfect Piper Kobashi Misawa Sting Foley Mysterio Eddie Guerrero Undertaker RVD Christian Steamboat Kurt Angle Daniel Bryan AJ Styles Christopher Daniels Sammoa Joe Dusty Rhodes
-this about where I'd start considering him, around 25 or so. He's definitely ahead of a lot of big names like Ultimate Warrior, Goldberg, Nash, Hall, even Cena, but I think he's just behind the guys I mentioned.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 2, 2013 4:08:03 GMT -5
In terms of technical ability?
No
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 2, 2013 8:13:19 GMT -5
The only way Triple H isn't in the top 50 is if we're talking about all promotions of all time in which case a bunch of Japanese guys will likely be in the top 50 and nudge him out.
The idea of someone who has had so many title reigns not being in the top 50 when these same people would probably put someone like Bad News Brown up there is ridiculous. If Triple H's quad injury in 2001 had killed his career, he would still be one of the all-time greats for match quality, heat and having some great title reigns up to that point too.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2013 8:42:14 GMT -5
Sure, I'd put him in a WWE Top 50 easily. Maybe even a WWE Top 20.
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Marty McFry
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Post by Marty McFry on Nov 2, 2013 8:44:01 GMT -5
He's definitely top 50 based on the usual criteria. Ironically, People would probably rate him higher than they do if he didn't try so hard to con everybody in believing he's top 5.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2013 8:52:31 GMT -5
Top 50? Yes.
Top 25? Maybe.
Top 10? No.
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Post by angryfan on Nov 2, 2013 9:21:08 GMT -5
Depends on the criteria.
Is it drawing money, or helping make guys who drew money, championships, or what?
As an example, Flair wasn't great just because people paid to see him wrestle. Flair was great because, if someone worked with him, like Sting or Steamboat, it established THEM as draws.
I thin the only guy who fits that category for Trips is Batista.
But again, it depends on what you personally want to use.
I remember Lance Storm once saying "I just wanted to be the guy who was known for being safe to work with and who could have good matches with people and they came out looking good".
Trips by all accounts has always been a safe worker. That earns high marks in my book because it's a mark of professionalism that the you take care of the men and women you work with in the ring.
Having said that he's been "meh" as a draw on his own, and while he can play a good heel or face, either he or the peole booking him won't let him be a heel and get taken down a few pegs which a heel has to do to be effective at the end of a storyline arch.
Top 50? Maybe, I'd put him in the 40's at best. I'd say h's a very recognizable supporting actor, one who when paired with a great lead actor he can be legendary and wind up with a few Oscars for his work. Standing on his own, however, it just falls flat.
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Totorob101
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Post by Totorob101 on Nov 2, 2013 9:35:16 GMT -5
I wouldnt have him in a top 200. The guy has never been good (in my opinion) and we all know what he gets up to backstage. No chance is he a top 50 guy.
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Toates Madhackrviper
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Nov 2, 2013 9:54:20 GMT -5
Personally I think its an absolute joke to NOT include him, but then I guess criteria and scope could be different. I think legacy, influence, and popularity count for a lot. Also scope wise I've only been watching wrestling since 2008 and only WWE and TNA (and some dabbling in American Indys and NJPW) so that has to skew things. But from where I'm standing I don't see how he couldn't be. Even including the "of all time" label and every country, it would just seem strange to me for him not to be included.
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Post by angryfan on Nov 2, 2013 10:01:52 GMT -5
Personally I think its an absolute joke to NOT include him, but then I guess criteria and scope could be different. I think legacy, influence, and popularity count for a lot. Also scope wise I've only been watching wrestling since 2008 and only WWE and TNA (and some dabbling in American Indys and NJPW) so that has to skew things. But from where I'm standing I don't see how he couldn't be. Even including the "of all time" label and every country, it would just seem strange to me for him not to be included. Perhaps that's my problem. I've been watching since I was 6, so 1983. Every Saturday morning, getting to stay up late with my dad to watch Saturday Night's Main Event when it started, so to me, I see the greatness in Trips, but I don't see the "top of the mountain" that is presented. I said above he's not top 10 or 20 for me, when the company wants me to say he's top 5 at worst. I'd put him, on his own, in the class of a Jake Roberts or Arn Anderson. Over, solid to great worker, could talk and talk well, but like I said above, best as a supporting actor. No shame in it, since, again as I said above, his supporting work is Oscar-worthy.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2013 11:59:00 GMT -5
In my personal top 50 of all time? Probably not.
In terms of the top 50 in terms of ring work, popularity, legacy, longevity and success? Absolutely, if we start counting out guys because of politics the list might not even make it to 50 in the first place.
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Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Nov 2, 2013 12:12:40 GMT -5
the criteria is important. Are we talking about draw? technical ability? promo ability? charisma? personal tastes? HHH was NEVER the guy, but he definitely was very important to helping build the guy, plus he was almost always over. People like to think that HHH was not the third guy behind austin and rock, but as a kid, I remember that after mentioning those 2, HHH was always coming next. Plus he was really awesome in 2000 which is imo the last AMAZING year that the wwe had (storylines, money, wrestlers, and lots of things) So yeah, he is a TOP 50, even across all promotions. Personally I think its an absolute joke to NOT include him, but then I guess criteria and scope could be different. I think legacy, influence, and popularity count for a lot. Also scope wise I've only been watching wrestling since 2008 and only WWE and TNA (and some dabbling in American Indys and NJPW) so that has to skew things. But from where I'm standing I don't see how he couldn't be. Even including the "of all time" label and every country, it would just seem strange to me for him not to be included. Perhaps that's my problem. I've been watching since I was 6, so 1983. Every Saturday morning, getting to stay up late with my dad to watch Saturday Night's Main Event when it started, so to me, I see the greatness in Trips, but I don't see the "top of the mountain" that is presented. I said above he's not top 10 or 20 for me, when the company wants me to say he's top 5 at worst. I'd put him, on his own, in the class of a Jake Roberts or Arn Anderson. Over, solid to great worker, could talk and talk well, but like I said above, best as a supporting actor. No shame in it, since, again as I said above, his supporting work is Oscar-worthy. Actually, thats a great way on explaining my feeling with HHH If the WWE didn't try to convince us that he is "the michael jordan" of wrestling he will be more admired by hardcore fans
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Post by Wolfman Rose on Nov 2, 2013 12:18:12 GMT -5
This thread... wow. In what goddamn universe is Paul London better than Triple H? And saying he's not even top 200? Wow.
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Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Nov 2, 2013 12:24:29 GMT -5
This thread... wow. In what goddamn universe is Paul London better than Triple H? And saying he's not even top 200? Wow.
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