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Post by héad.casé on Nov 3, 2013 10:13:04 GMT -5
I mean I know we got the awesome Hart/Austin Submission Match which led to the double turn of both, but wasn't HBK supposed to be defending the WWF Title against Bret at this Wrestlemania? Where Bret was going to get his win back? Instead we got Undertaker vs Sid for the Title with HBK on commentary (dancing around like he didn't even have an injured knee during his entrance, which is why he gave up the title a few weeks before in the first place}.
Like I say Hart/Austin worked out for the best, but the rest of the show not so much. Strangely enough didn't feel like a Wrestlemania to me watching it live. I can't imagine many people seeing Undertaker vs Sid for the title as the Main Event and wanting to buy it.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Nov 3, 2013 10:21:02 GMT -5
According to Bret's book, even before the forfeit, Vince had changed the card to Taker vs Sid for the title. Allegedly, Bret was going to cost HBK the title at THURSDAY RAW THURSDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, then it would be Bret vs HBK in a ladder match at Mania. Then HBK lost his smile.
So, the card was always going to be terrible, regardless of whether you got a Bret/HBK ladder match or the classic Hart/Austin match we did get.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 3, 2013 10:39:02 GMT -5
In hindsight no, since Austin vs Bret was awesome and important from a character development point of view for both guys
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2013 10:48:21 GMT -5
Yeah, compared to a Nitro WCW put on at the United Center around that time (biggest attendance for a Nitro at the time), WM13 came out pretty flat. (I blame the sound. I was there and it was more thrilling than what it appeared on PPV; that audio was so terrible when a friend sent me the VHS - why pay for the PPV when I was sitting 4th row behind the hockey boards?)
They did pretty much build the entire event around Bret vs. Austin; even the possibility of one of them holding the WWF title by the time WM came around. However, some of the undercard did get a bit of a push. Hunter vs. Goldust, Ahmed/LOD vs. the Nation, Undertaker vs. Sid; all got a bit of TV time. Even Rocky vs. Sultan (which I still insist was a late-change) got a couple of weeks.
I did rather like the chaos of 4-5 possible guys holding the title (Bret, Austin, Vader, Sid, Undertaker), which made it all the more confusing week to week. What's the main event? The guy with the title or the Submission match?
What really killed it was having "Vic Venom: Somewhat Evil Wrestling Journalist Who Follows Underground Newsletters" tell everybody with conviction that Bret Hart was going to win the Royal Rumble and face Shawn at WrestleMania 13 and win the belt. Because heels are liars and are never correct. So, you knew something shady was going down.
(Having Bret vs. Shawn again wasn't getting the kind of buzz the WWF hoped. So naturally, they had to change it and just used Vic as an excuse.)
That's just what I thought. Although my main question is: How did they intend to book the February IYH if, a) Shawn didn't drop the title, and, b) Bret won the Rumble after all? Surely not a Final Four if Bret won the Rumble.
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Post by jason1980s on Nov 3, 2013 10:55:06 GMT -5
I think the event was a sign of a thinning roster. Sultan was a lower card guy since his debut and after this event too. The next ppv he was curtain jerking against Flash Funk. The tag title match was heel v. heel. The two face teams, Furnas & Lafon and Godwinns. We already saw Furnas & Lafon against Bulldog & Owen and Godwinns were far from the popularity they had last year so a heel v. heel was the only choice. Headbangers weren't ready and Blackjacks were repackaged, silly gimmick guys.
There were really only three feud matches and the HW title match wasn't even based on Royal Rumble as it has been the last few years. Taking away the four teams opener and having only one team v. team would have added nothing of importance.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Nov 3, 2013 11:43:03 GMT -5
For as much as the IC title means nothing now, The Sultan getting a shot at it at Wrestlemania doesn't exactly make it seem too credible back in the glory days, either.
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Post by Straight Edge Scrotum on Nov 3, 2013 11:47:40 GMT -5
Not at all. Austin/Bret was a phenomenal match. And I was already fans of Taker and Sid, so it was actually an improvement for me.
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BigBadZ
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Post by BigBadZ on Nov 3, 2013 12:16:46 GMT -5
The story goes that HBK forfeited the title because he didn't want to drop it to Bret Hart. That's actually false. He forfeited the title because he was too scared to face Vacant, who became the next WWF champion
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Post by MichaelMartini on Nov 3, 2013 12:23:40 GMT -5
OP's last paragraph is kinda funny. HBK was never a big draw (despite his abilities, yadda yadda) so it's hard to say if a title defense would've done more business than Taker/Sid
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Post by Todd Pettengill on Nov 3, 2013 12:54:13 GMT -5
I thought the zaniness in the weeks leading up to the event was really fun: The Rumble Match, HBK forfeit, the Final Four match, & Bret Sid in a cage.
That was all very entertaining & made the weekly product more "must see," than it had been in years.
That being said, aside from Hart/Austin & a few other highlights, WM13 falls pretty flat.
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Nov 3, 2013 13:41:46 GMT -5
The very idea that they were going to stretch the Shawn/Bret storyline out for 3 years is such bullshit. The story was told and if it needed to be retold, it certainly didn't need to take place at Wrestlemania for an additional 2 years. On top of that, I would think it wouldn't make a lot of sense with WCW taking off so well, and that anyone with common sense would see that what they're doing isn't working. Not only that, but starting off a "best of 3 series" with a f***ing Ironman match is stupid as shit, that's what you would do for the third match, not the first.
The title match wasn't what it could have been, simply because main event scene was stretched so thin. Still, WWF did the best they could with the available components. If anything, Shawn's legit or not injury saved us on what we may have gotten;
1. Shawn vs. Bret 2 for the WWF title- yawn
2. Shawn vs. Sid for the WWF title- again, they'd already done 2 matches in the last 4 months...no thanks
3. Shawn vs. Undertaker for the WWF title - Taker might not have had a Mania streak if this was the case
4. Bret or Shawn vs. Austin for the WWF title- they hadn't pulled the trigger on the Austin turn yet, so doing it with the title on the line would have subtracted from the moment
So thankfully...anything that was "planned", didn't happen for the right reasons. Vince probably told Bret that with the idea that it will make him happy, but had no intention of ever delivering on it.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Nov 3, 2013 13:58:29 GMT -5
WM 13 just had a crappy undercard. Considering the talent they had, it could've been a great show but they insisted on getting everyone on the show by putting them in tags.
Vader vs Mankind could have happened, for one thing.
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Nov 3, 2013 23:33:40 GMT -5
According to Bret's book, even before the forfeit, Vince had changed the card to Taker vs Sid for the title. Allegedly, Bret was going to cost HBK the title at THURSDAY RAW THURSDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, then it would be Bret vs HBK in a ladder match at Mania. Then HBK lost his smile. So, the card was always going to be terrible, regardless of whether you got a Bret/HBK ladder match or the classic Hart/Austin match we did get. Wait, first off...... 1.A Ladder Match? What exactly would be on the line? I mean Shawn lost the belt, just what would they be fighting for? 2.What would Austin be doing? It doesn't make sense to keep him off the card after all the momentum he had been building. |
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Post by fw91 on Nov 3, 2013 23:48:48 GMT -5
i don't think it had much appeal to begin with, but having HBK would have made the roster seem a little less depleted.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Nov 4, 2013 0:09:29 GMT -5
HBK on the card vs. anyone else would help pump up the star power for sure
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Nov 4, 2013 0:21:39 GMT -5
According to Bret's book, even before the forfeit, Vince had changed the card to Taker vs Sid for the title. Allegedly, Bret was going to cost HBK the title at THURSDAY RAW THURSDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, then it would be Bret vs HBK in a ladder match at Mania. Then HBK lost his smile. So, the card was always going to be terrible, regardless of whether you got a Bret/HBK ladder match or the classic Hart/Austin match we did get. Wait, first off...... 1.A Ladder Match? What exactly would be on the line? I mean Shawn lost the belt, just what would they be fighting for? 2.What would Austin be doing? It doesn't make sense to keep him off the card after all the momentum he had been building. I believe it would be a ladder match for HBK's hair. I think that's what Bret said. |
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Post by kamero00 on Nov 4, 2013 0:29:43 GMT -5
I am a big Taker fan, but that match was just brutal. Taker was arguably the 4th most over face (HBK, Austin, Hart), and Sid was just not hated.
"Big man" matches all most never live up to the hype.
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Nov 4, 2013 0:47:20 GMT -5
I still think Bret vs. Austin should have been the main event and been for the WWF Title. Undertaker eventually dropped the title to Bret at SummerSlam anyhow, and his reign was completely uneventful. May as well have just put it on Bret at 'Mania and had a much better main event.
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Post by thegame415 on Nov 4, 2013 2:07:48 GMT -5
I thunk it pretty much just shows the state of the WWF at the time. It was a very thin roster. However, if I was booking, I think I would've done something like this:
WWF Title: Undertaker vs Mankind in some type of gimmick match never seen in WWF at that point.
Steve Austin vs Bret Hart in a submission match
Vader vs Sid
IC Title: Rocky Maivia vs Hunter Hearst Helmsley
Tag Titles: Owen/Bulldog vs LOD
Ahmed Johnson vs The Nation in a gauntlet match
Goldust vs Jerry Lawler
Some type of match involving ECW guys vs WWF guys or an ECW one on one match.
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Nov 4, 2013 8:22:33 GMT -5
Wait, first off...... 1.A Ladder Match? What exactly would be on the line? I mean Shawn lost the belt, just what would they be fighting for? 2.What would Austin be doing? It doesn't make sense to keep him off the card after all the momentum he had been building. I believe it would be a ladder match for HBK's hair. I think that's what Bret said. ....what? |
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