Do You Believe the Idea of Carrying?

[thegame415]

Is it possible that wrestler A can have such good skill, they can carry a poor wrestler B to a solid match?

I always thought this was true, but when I think about it, I have doubts. OK, so maybe someone isn't the best "wrestler", but they still have to be a good storyteller. They have to know how to sell, what moves to call, spots to hit, etc in order to tell the story. Maybe wrestler A, the better one, can improve wrestler B, but is it possible to carry someone so bad they become good?

What are some ideas you have of carrying if you think this is true?

[efarns]

Anybody who can be "carried" to a good match has to bring something to the table to carry. Ric Flair is the guy everyone says could wrestle a broomstick to a **** match, but he occasionally had guys (El Gigante) that even he couldn't work with. But at least one of the guys in the ring has to know how to put a match together. Instead of "carrying" someone like they're dead weight, it's more like "leading" the match in the ring.

[Magic knows Black Lives Matter]

Oh absolutely.

[Deleted]

Sure. I've seen that during the Cena vs Sandow match last week.

[Feyrhausen]

Bret Hart vs. Tom Magee.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

I think for a live audience, yes, because they can't see things clearly enough for the most part so you could probably even make a broomstick work. For a TV audience that has zoom lenses and hard cameras? No.

[Deleted]

I'll just point to the two matches Shawn Michaels vs. Sycho Sid had with each other in late-1996/early-1997 and prove that Shawn made that big guy look like a million bucks.

I'm not a Shawn Michaels fan, but those matches were quite enjoyable.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Yeah but Sid isn't an example of someone who can't work AT ALL, he's just not a very good wrestler. That more fits in with the earlier assertion that someone can be lead, rather than carried.

[A Platypus Rave is Correct]

Cena Vs. Khali?

[Push R Truth]

I don't believe in 100% carrying, but I believe in about a 60% carrying.

I look at it a lot like the NFL. A hall of fame QB makes a lot of "nobody" receivers look great... but these "nobodys" still have to at least run half a route and catch the ball. Sure, a guy like Aaron Rogers can throw a football through a fruitloop, but somebody still needs to have enough skill to catch it.


Flair in his prime couldn't carry me to a good match. He could, however, probably carry a random indy dude who knew how to sell and do a body slam to at least a serviceable match.


The real question in this thread is if Flair wrestled a broomstick would he still blade in the first 90 seconds of the match?

[Deleted]

Nov 6, 2013 8:50:23 GMT -5 Feyrhausen said:

Bret Hart vs. Tom Magee.

Has anyone ever even seen this match? It's almost a myth at this point.

[mrmulluk]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHs3kurfxz4

I love this match, genuinely. The chair-spot, love it. That's some storytelling work, right there.

[BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps]

I don't think it's as common as a lot of fans think, but in some instances it's fairly obvious, like if someone has to work with a borderline immoble opponent (Cena, with Khali) or is clearly working with a totally gassed opponent (Cena again with Rock at WM28, Bret Hart with Bulldog) and they still manage to make the match somewhat thrilling.

[A Platypus Rave is Correct]

Nov 6, 2013 10:17:42 GMT -5 Push R Truth said:

I don't believe in 100% carrying, but I believe in about a 60% carrying.

I look at it a lot like the NFL. A hall of fame QB makes a lot of "nobody" receivers look great... but these "nobodys" still have to at least run half a route and catch the ball. Sure, a guy like Aaron Rogers can throw a football through a fruitloop, but somebody still needs to have enough skill to catch it.


Flair in his prime couldn't carry me to a good match. He could, however, probably carry a random indy dude who knew how to sell and do a body slam to at least a serviceable match.


The real question in this thread is if Flair wrestled a broomstick would he still blade in the first 90 seconds of the match?

Yes, he'd also flop, get thrown from the top rope and depending on the era flip over the turnbuckle

[NOwave]

It's certainly possible. Saying Flair could wrestle a "broomstick" was an exaggeration for the purpose of making the point that a very good wrestler can make a less-talented opponent look better. An example: Ric Flair and George South in the mid-80s. Ric was annoyed with the promotion over something and requested South for what was supposed to be a time-filling squash match on TV. Ric took George thru every spot that he normally did with Ricky Steamboat and made South look like a legitimate contender for Flair's world title! (contrary to what the promoters wanted, which was for Flair to squash his opponent in that match like a bug)

Now, George South was a good hand. He knew all the basics and could sell. But he was no Ricky Steamboat. The point was that Flair(or Bret hart or Shawn Micheals) could take almost any solid, trained wrestler thru the kind of match he usually saved for a PPV Main Event. But even he couldn't do too much with someone who was untrained or who was immobile and unatheletic like El Gigante.

[Instant Classic]

any match where Cena wrestles an IWC god. *youtube smarks*

[Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite]

Nov 6, 2013 18:47:31 GMT -5 NOwave said:

It's certainly possible. Saying Flair could wrestle a "broomstick" was an exaggeration for the purpose of making the point that a very good wrestler can make a less-talented opponent look better. An example: Ric Flair and George South in the mid-80s. Ric was annoyed with the promotion over something and requested South for what was supposed to be a time-filling squash match on TV. Ric took George thru every spot that he normally did with Ricky Steamboat and made South look like a legitimate contender for Flair's world title! (contrary to what the promoters wanted, which was for Flair to squash his opponent in that match like a bug)

Now, George South was a good hand. He knew all the basics and could sell. But he was no Ricky Steamboat. The point was that Flair(or Bret hart or Shawn Micheals) could take almost any solid, trained wrestler thru the kind of match he usually saved for a PPV Main Event. But even he couldn't do too much with someone who was untrained or who was immobile and unatheletic like El Gigante.

I'm mad I can't find THAT specific match of those two.

I heard about it after south was on art of wrestling. I went online but the only match I saw was an 8 minute squash match.

[Shark]

Nov 6, 2013 10:17:42 GMT -5 Push R Truth said:

The real question in this thread is if Flair wrestled a broomstick would he still blade in the first 90 seconds of the match?

Those splinters are really sharp.

[Phosphor Glow]

Nov 6, 2013 8:40:37 GMT -5 @blazinman5 said:

Sure. I've seen that during the Cena vs Sandow match last week.

...who are you insinuating carried who?

I disagree either way, as they're both incredibly capable of putting on great matches. Just curious.

[Deleted]

Nov 7, 2013 13:29:42 GMT -5 Phosphor Glow said:

Nov 6, 2013 8:40:37 GMT -5 @blazinman5 said:

Sure. I've seen that during the Cena vs Sandow match last week.

...who are you insinuating carried who?

I disagree either way, as they're both incredibly capable of putting on great matches. Just curious.

Oh Cena carried Sandow. For the record, I love Sandow, but to me, he's an average wrestler(until his match w/Cena a week ago).