When is it justifiable to release someone?

[TGM]

I'm not counting three strikes on the wellness for this, I'm thinking more along the 'creative has nothing' for you line.

Should this just be for lower card guys? Or lower card guys that haven't appeared in months? Do guys like Miz/Swagger etc have more right to stay on the roster as former World champions? Should they get new writers if they can't come up with ideas? When comes the point when a wrestler can't be repackaged and should try his luck elsewhere? What makes management give up on one guy and push another (with arguably the same amount of ability)?

Sorry for rambling and all the questions, it's quite a hard topic to get into words.

[Sparkybob]

If he's in the top half of the card and refuses to drop down when the company ask him to, that's grounds for firing I think.

[Amazing Kitsune]

Whenever you're paying them and they're not contributing anything to the company--and they haven't been for a significant period of time. No matter how much potential a guy has, you have to let him go if he's not giving you a return on your investment.

You can always get him back. Where's he gonna go, to WCW?

[saintpat]

The "creative has nothing for you" doesn't mean that creative has nothing for someone any more than "wish you well in future endeavors" means they really, really want that person to go to another promotion and get over in a big way.

It's just corporate release-speak for "we see nothing in you, you ain't cutting it, we have other guys who we see something in and are going to go in that direction." I always shake my head when someone sees this standard, boilerplate release language and comes back with "Well they should just fire the people in creative, it's their job to come up with something for everyone." No, it's not. It's their job to come up with something for the people who are on the main roster who WWE decides to build storylines around.

They are writing for six hours of TV (not to mention NXT and the web stuff) every week -- more than actual writers for regular 30- and 60-minute TV shows with 22 episodes per year -- plus PPV. They aren't supposed and don't have time to write an angle for JTG if WWE doesn't plan to put JTG on TV that week, or if he's only in a squash match.

The roster is not set up in a way where every single person is supposed to have something to do. The people in development are there to ... develop, improve, showcase what they can do and to help create an interesting character who CAN get to the main roster. There are people on the main roster whose job it is to job, "enhancement talent" who lose and try to make the other guy look good. That IS something to do. There has to be guys like that on the roster. People go crazy when anyone in the midcard loses and gets "berried," well these guys take losses away from others.

Football teams have players who don't get on the field unless someone else gets hurt. They are on the scout team in practice, helping the starters and second-stringers get ready. And they are trying to improve so that they can do the job when their number is called. Same for guys on the end of the bench in the NBA and in the minor leagues in baseball and the understudies in an acting troupe.

Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the talent to catch the eye of management in a way that makes them say, "Hey, this person has something. Let's figure out what we can do with him/her."

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

These are things that I, as a booker, would like to be sackable offenses, at least if you repeat offend.
- Refusing to job.
- Injuring the same person more than once, or injuring different people once on separate occasions when it is very obviously preventable.
- Stiffing a rookie more than is necessary (I know there is an element of 'paying your dues' required because wrestling hurts, but there are limits)
- Refusing to do what our storyline says you should do. The greatest wrestlers of all time have turned shit into gold, from the 80s guys to the Attitude guys to the current guys. Daniel Bryan was a dancing f***wit on NXT before he became the hottest babyface in the company, CM Punk was a bland babyface.

Also, I think it was Firebreaker Chip who was briefly booking WCW and brought in a bonus for the best match on the card. I know it's kind of the opposite, but I would bring that back.

[ICBM]

They need to justify firing someone to no one.

[RAW IS GWAR]

If they kill their family

[Deleted]

When they feel that the time is right. Companies cut people all the time.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

WHAT A f***ING UNFORTUNATE PAIR OF POSTS THAT WAS, EH GUYS?

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

Nov 21, 2013 17:37:46 GMT -5 saintpat said:

The "creative has nothing for you" doesn't mean that creative has nothing for someone any more than "wish you well in future endeavors" means they really, really want that person to go to another promotion and get over in a big way.

It's just corporate release-speak for "we see nothing in you, you ain't cutting it, we have other guys who we see something in and are going to go in that direction." I always shake my head when someone sees this standard, boilerplate release language and comes back with "Well they should just fire the people in creative, it's their job to come up with something for everyone." No, it's not. It's their job to come up with something for the people who are on the main roster who WWE decides to build storylines around.

They are writing for six hours of TV (not to mention NXT and the web stuff) every week -- more than actual writers for regular 30- and 60-minute TV shows with 22 episodes per year -- plus PPV. They aren't supposed and don't have time to write an angle for JTG if WWE doesn't plan to put JTG on TV that week, or if he's only in a squash match.

The roster is not set up in a way where every single person is supposed to have something to do. The people in development are there to ... develop, improve, showcase what they can do and to help create an interesting character who CAN get to the main roster. There are people on the main roster whose job it is to job, "enhancement talent" who lose and try to make the other guy look good. That IS something to do. There has to be guys like that on the roster. People go crazy when anyone in the midcard loses and gets "berried," well these guys take losses away from others.

Football teams have players who don't get on the field unless someone else gets hurt. They are on the scout team in practice, helping the starters and second-stringers get ready. And they are trying to improve so that they can do the job when their number is called. Same for guys on the end of the bench in the NBA and in the minor leagues in baseball and the understudies in an acting troupe.

Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the talent to catch the eye of management in a way that makes them say, "Hey, this person has something. Let's figure out what we can do with him/her."

The problem is that the main roster talents are used exclusively as jobbers and made out to be a laughingstock and mocked by the general wrestling audience. No wrestler should be made to look worthless. Most of the time a good chunk of these guys are losing too many times that a victory over them doesn't mean anything, because all they did was beat a loser. Guys like JTG. Zack Ryder, Curt Hawkins, Yoshi Tatsu, Alex Riley, 3MB, Tons of Funk, PTPs need to win as often as they lose, so that when they do put over the up and coming talent it means more.

This year, Quite a large chunk of guys took extended time off for whatever reason, and WWE never elevated anyone to fill those spots, even on a temporary basis. They just stretched the screen time of everyone who were being featured anyway.

[g1megatronfan]

When someone just isn't clicking with the crowd. Del Rio for example. Why is this man still there? Whatever they're doing obviously isn't working. When someone comes out and it's so quiet that people at home can hear a member of the crowd fart...it's time to give him or her the boot.

[Phil Parent]

Nov 21, 2013 19:19:13 GMT -5 g1megatronfan said:

When someone just isn't clicking with the crowd. Del Rio for example. Why is this man still there? Whatever they're doing obviously isn't working. When someone comes out and it's so quiet that people at home can hear a member of the crowd fart...it's time to give him or her the boot.

He gets the heat of an ice cube, but he's solid in the ring and he can be a good fodder for a face.

[Deleted]

When they're Del Rio.

[Magic knows Black Lives Matter]

How much are you getting paid? Has your value to the company been lower than that for a significant amount of time?

If the answer is yes, see ya.

[BigWill]

You're at the bottom of the totem pole, and it's time for budget cuts.

[MolotovMocktail]

-Unprofessional/locker room cancer.
-They get X-Pac heat/Billy Gunn effect (massive push, no reaction from the fans)
-Constantly injured
-Getting in trouble outside the ring (kind of goes with unprofessionalism)

[Boo!]

I never got why 'creative has nothing for you' isn't a good enough excuse. It's the best one there is. Characters get written out of TV shows all the time for similar reasons. You can't keep everyone or give everyone TV time. Nor should you want to.

[Larryhausen]

Nov 21, 2013 18:28:20 GMT -5 CATCH_US IS the Conversation said:

Nov 21, 2013 17:37:46 GMT -5 saintpat said:

The "creative has nothing for you" doesn't mean that creative has nothing for someone any more than "wish you well in future endeavors" means they really, really want that person to go to another promotion and get over in a big way.

It's just corporate release-speak for "we see nothing in you, you ain't cutting it, we have other guys who we see something in and are going to go in that direction." I always shake my head when someone sees this standard, boilerplate release language and comes back with "Well they should just fire the people in creative, it's their job to come up with something for everyone." No, it's not. It's their job to come up with something for the people who are on the main roster who WWE decides to build storylines around.

They are writing for six hours of TV (not to mention NXT and the web stuff) every week -- more than actual writers for regular 30- and 60-minute TV shows with 22 episodes per year -- plus PPV. They aren't supposed and don't have time to write an angle for JTG if WWE doesn't plan to put JTG on TV that week, or if he's only in a squash match.

The roster is not set up in a way where every single person is supposed to have something to do. The people in development are there to ... develop, improve, showcase what they can do and to help create an interesting character who CAN get to the main roster. There are people on the main roster whose job it is to job, "enhancement talent" who lose and try to make the other guy look good. That IS something to do. There has to be guys like that on the roster. People go crazy when anyone in the midcard loses and gets "berried," well these guys take losses away from others.

Football teams have players who don't get on the field unless someone else gets hurt. They are on the scout team in practice, helping the starters and second-stringers get ready. And they are trying to improve so that they can do the job when their number is called. Same for guys on the end of the bench in the NBA and in the minor leagues in baseball and the understudies in an acting troupe.

Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the talent to catch the eye of management in a way that makes them say, "Hey, this person has something. Let's figure out what we can do with him/her."

The problem is that the main roster talents are used exclusively as jobbers and made out to be a laughingstock and mocked by the general wrestling audience. No wrestler should be made to look worthless. Most of the time a good chunk of these guys are losing too many times that a victory over them doesn't mean anything, because all they did was beat a loser. Guys like JTG. Zack Ryder, Curt Hawkins, Yoshi Tatsu, Alex Riley, 3MB, Tons of Funk, PTPs need to win as often as they lose, so that when they do put over the up and coming talent it means more.

This year, Quite a large chunk of guys took extended time off for whatever reason, and WWE never elevated anyone to fill those spots, even on a temporary basis. They just stretched the screen time of everyone who were being featured anyway.

Those are the jobbers he was referring to.

[BigWill]

Nov 22, 2013 0:13:09 GMT -5 Boo! said:

I never got why 'creative has nothing for you' isn't a good enough excuse. It's the best one there is. Characters get written out of TV shows all the time for similar reasons. You can't keep everyone or give everyone TV time. Nor should you want to.

It's not so much as it's not a good excuse, as that it's usually complete bullshit. It's corporate-speak used to pacify someone while firing them. "Creative has nothing for you" is the equivalent of the dating line, "it's not you, it's me".

[Boo!]

Nov 22, 2013 0:41:23 GMT -5 BigWill said:

Nov 22, 2013 0:13:09 GMT -5 Boo! said:

I never got why 'creative has nothing for you' isn't a good enough excuse. It's the best one there is. Characters get written out of TV shows all the time for similar reasons. You can't keep everyone or give everyone TV time. Nor should you want to.

It's not so much as it's not a good excuse, as that it's usually complete bullshit. It's corporate-speak used to pacify someone while firing them. "Creative has nothing for you" is the equivalent of the dating line, "it's not you, it's me".

Why is it bullshit?

It's a TV show and sometimes the writers don't have something for someone to do. What other reasons do you think people leave TV shows?