Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,884
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Post by Sephiroth on Dec 11, 2013 9:12:58 GMT -5
With AJ's impending departure, I figured this was the time to give vent to my, and I suspect many other's, great frustrations at the state the company is in today. The worst part of it is that none of it had to happen. Not that long ago, TNA was actually a pretty exciting show to watch. They had at least stopped trying to be WWE or WCW-lite; they had established a unique identity for themselves as something new in pro-wrestling. When you watched TNA you saw thing that you wouldn't see on WWE: you saw a six sided ring, young stars who had never worked in WWE, WCW, or ECW, a unique take on the lightweights called the X division and different types of gimmick matches oriented around it, and a women's roster so diverse and talented that it put WWE to shame at the time. And if you were feeling nostalgic there were some familiar faces like Nash, Jarrett, Sting, Steiner, Angle, and sometimes even Flair and Foley. And even if TNA wasn't in the league of WWE or WCW yet, you couldn't help but feel they were really on the verge of breaking out; they had picked up their first video game deal, they were running house shows, they were picking up some sponsorship and cross promotion like Foley appearing on The Daily Show or Tracy Brooks posing for Playboy, and their ratings were actually increasing-to the point that they were even comparable to WWE (ableit WWE's thing tier show). When you look at TNA now, what you see is WWE-lite. All the things that made it an exciting show to watch have been completely gutted. The six sided ring is gone, the X division and women's roster are practically non-existent, and now even TNA's home grown talent appear to be on their way out the door. And when you hear about TNA's backstage goings on, you get the impression of a company that is sinking into the tenth level of hell rather than on the verge of breaking out-whether it is lawsuits from former stars or longtime veterans being expected to work for less. The collapse has been so rapid it makes the head spin. Is Hogan to blame for all of this? Certainly a very large portion of it was his doing; he attempted to push the company into things it was not remotely prepared for such as a "ratings war" with WWE or going on the road full time. He pulled all his old tricks like bringing in his old fart pals for an easy paycheck and making himself the center of the show over TNA's own well established stars. But at the end of the day the real blame lies with Dixie Carter and her family; not only did they throw out the kitchen sink on Hogan, but they have constantly failed to use the many advantages TNA has enjoyed over the years to their fullest potential. Much like Time Warner during the heyday of WCW, the Carters are an organization that are definitely smart in business, but they know nothing about wrestling and how to run a wrestling organization. My personal belief is that the best thing for TNA at this stage would be for it to get sold to someone who actually does know a thing or two about wrestling and who actually wants to put on a great show and entertain fans. There, said it all. Hope you all agree.
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shaker
Team Rocket
The numbers don't lie - and they spell disaster for you at Sacrifice!
Posts: 779
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Post by shaker on Dec 11, 2013 14:54:45 GMT -5
Best thing for TNA right now is to be put down like an old rabid dog. It's bad television, bad wrestling, and at this point, being in TNA is a negative for most wrestlers.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Dec 13, 2013 0:24:51 GMT -5
I don't think TNA was too bad today, I thought it was pretty good. One of TNA's many many problems, but this is one that's simply on topic is how it's alienated its fan base. TNA's best pay per view buyrate was in 2006 with 60,000 buys. Terrible by WWE standards, but hey, it was 2006. The company was in business for 4 years, and there was optimism going into the famous Joe vs Angle dream match. And I think the fans had so much optimism at the time. They had some issues, sure, but now, pay per views have trouble cracking 15,000. And I think that is a substantial drop as many people who might be at least casually interested in TNA are no longer interested.
And I think in the last number of years, the faith in the company has diminished so much, that the brand itself is pretty much a zombie at this point. I'm not sure if changing the name or entire brand will help anything, but I think it's purpose would be to simply wipe the vast amount of shit off the company's slate. Like, the whole tone of the show has been different recently. Kaz and Daniels went from this comedy duo to being ultra dick heels. Eric Young cut a serious promo tonight that wasn't too out of the ordinary character wise. He can be fun, but in that promo, it was time to get serious with Joseph Park. They're going really slow with Ethan Carter III. They're slowly bringing people back on the show (Zema Ion, Madison Rayne, Rockstar Spud, Samuel Shaw), and I think TNA is trying to find a new direction.
The brand needs to die. Not the company itself, but the brand. They can't go anywhere with TNA/Impact Wrestling, it has too much stink on it. There are a lot of reasons. Russo coming back in and killing off guys like Samoa Joe (let's have a girlfriend in this angle feud, let's put a tattoo on his face and threaten to kill people, let's have ninjas kidnap him), and in later years, Angelina Love (top female star in TNA to rape victim of vampire/witch/whateverthef*** that only she can see). Hogan coming in with the Hogan crew, filling up the roster, taking up time, having all the heels bump for him, be they Desmond Wolfe, Bobby Roode, or whoever). Eric Bischoff bringing the WCW stink with him.
It's like the past 5 or so years have been a big natural disaster, and now that everything has settled, it's time for them to pick up the pieces and rebuild.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,936
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Post by chazraps on Dec 13, 2013 16:13:34 GMT -5
I still stand by the last six months of 2012 being the most enjoyable that TNA's ever been.
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metylerca
King Koopa
Loves Him Some Backstreet Boys.
Don't be alarmed.
Posts: 12,477
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Post by metylerca on Dec 13, 2013 21:18:13 GMT -5
I really liked the period from Victory Road 2004 to Against All Odds 2005. Turning Point and Final Resolution are awesome events, especially the latter.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 13, 2013 21:25:55 GMT -5
TNA Then:TNA Now: TNA Forever:
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Glitch
King Koopa
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
Posts: 12,710
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Post by Glitch on Dec 13, 2013 21:54:13 GMT -5
Tna can still recover but it's gonna take a lot of work. They'll need six months to a year full of good shows just to get people to stop laughing at them. There is a silver lining to this situation. For once we have no russo, hogan or bischoff at all. And it's very apparent on screen too. The budget cutter is a blessing in disguise since they've stopped putting over a shit load of ex-wwe guys now, and focusing on new guys.
Tna does learn from their mistakes, they just take too frikkin long to do so. Maybe all their failures have finally sunk in.
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SOR
Unicron
Posts: 2,611
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Post by SOR on Dec 14, 2013 10:41:57 GMT -5
You can't blame Hulk. Nobody is to be blamed the interest just isn't there in the product and the people who ARE interested are being turned off.
I used to love TNA and the night after Bound For Glory I was confident that TNA could remain good because that show really was pretty decent. Then the week after that was bad, then the week after was worse and it kept dropping. It's so bad that I (A former HUGE TNA fan) can't tune in anymore.
I don't want to be one of those guys who pretends 05 was perfect because it wasn't but back then at least you had freshness. AJ/Daniels was relatively new. AJ/Joe was relatively new. Hell, Those three themselves were relatively new and fresh. Today we've seen them wrestle at least 5 times and that's if you're a casual fan who doesn't buy PPV's etc.
Back in those times, story lines were fresh as well. I remember being excited as a 14-15 year old about what VKM (The stable, not the man) would do next to the WWE. The IWC were excited about it. During that time you had the Bob Backlund invitational or whatever. You had Jarrett taking on the world and trying to keep his belt, You had Tag Team wars but in 2013 you have very very basic good guy vs bad guy. There's no depth or freshness to story lines anymore.
Apart from all of that, something I feel TNA 05 does better than TNA 2013 is surprises. When was the last time we were surprised legitimately? TNA promised a surprise in August and it was Tito Ortiz, massive let down. Most recently we were promised a big former World Champion and we get 30 seconds of Pacman Jones. It's ridiculous. At least back in 05 you had a legitimate surprise and a feeling of "Anything can happen" in that year alone you had Rhino's surprise debut, Billy Gunn early in 05 came in and then multiple other returns/debuts. The first episode on Spike you had the surprise debut of Team 3.D and the return of Kevin Nash. It was all exciting and worth watching.
TNA feels like they are going through the motions. Give the fans some excitement week to week.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 14, 2013 10:54:03 GMT -5
They had a chance to be an alternative and botched it. It should have been relatively easy, but they couldn't do it, mainly because they have a woman in charge who is utterly clueless and has no idea what she's doing. Instead of being innovative she prefers to imitate, and the fact she brought in all the people responsible for collapsing WCW confirms her stupidity. All they needed to do was study the end of WCW, and learn from those mistakes, then study post-Attitude Era WWE and why it alienated people, especially males, and then simply do what WWE weren't doing right.
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Post by grunt on Dec 14, 2013 13:07:49 GMT -5
... yeah, a quick read through that thread (or any of the dozen similar threads that pop up every three months around here) really highlights why TNA can't win : everybody and their mother has an opinion about what TNA should do to be great (translation : "to cater to them"), but not two opinions are the same, and the product can't ever satisfy enough people to drown the complaints in. There will always be complainers, and they'll always be loud enough (thanks, internet) to give the impression that the product sucks, even when it doesn't. And they'll always be the first to tell TNA officials on twitter/facebook about it, loud enough for it to be the only message going through.
Also, people are so hellbent on repeating their "Dixie is clueless"/"TNA only pushes ex-WWE guys"/"Hogan is evil"/"Russo sucks" mantras that they can't be bothered to notice that there has been at least three or four different booking "eras" in the past five/seven years, with very different philosophies & very different products (each with qualities & problems), some adressing concerns that have plagued TNA for years... to no avail.
People always end up going back to the old clichés re:TNA, even if those haven't been relevant for years.
And, on that note, I'll just wait for the fans of the current, old-school inspired, Jarrett era of booking to start complaining that the show is too gimmicky, messy & overbooked (which is what old-school TNA was, once you remove the patina of time & nostalgia). I haven't read the spoilers, but it shouldn't be long anyway.
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Dec 17, 2013 20:36:31 GMT -5
....It's so bad that I (A former HUGE TNA fan) can't tune in anymore..... Sadly, this is exactly how I've felt about the product for roughly six months now. I just can not bring myself to start watching regularly, week in week out, again.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Dec 18, 2013 10:06:09 GMT -5
I still stand by the last six months of 2012 being the most enjoyable that TNA's ever been. I would totally agree with like May - July 2012, but after that it's all Aces and Eights. Are you the chosen one, the single person that angle appealed to? Well, besides Eric Bischoff.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Dec 18, 2013 13:44:18 GMT -5
... yeah, a quick read through that thread (or any of the dozen similar threads that pop up every three months around here) really highlights why TNA can't win : everybody and their mother has an opinion about what TNA should do to be great (translation : "to cater to them"), but not two opinions are the same, and the product can't ever satisfy enough people to drown the complaints in. There will always be complainers, and they'll always be loud enough (thanks, internet) to give the impression that the product sucks, even when it doesn't. And they'll always be the first to tell TNA officials on twitter/facebook about it, loud enough for it to be the only message going through. Also, people are so hellbent on repeating their "Dixie is clueless"/"TNA only pushes ex-WWE guys"/"Hogan is evil"/"Russo sucks" mantras that they can't be bothered to notice that there has been at least three or four different booking "eras" in the past five/seven years, with very different philosophies & very different products (each with qualities & problems), some adressing concerns that have plagued TNA for years... to no avail. People always end up going back to the old clichés re:TNA, even if those haven't been relevant for years. And, on that note, I'll just wait for the fans of the current, old-school inspired, Jarrett era of booking to start complaining that the show is too gimmicky, messy & overbooked (which is what old-school TNA was, once you remove the patina of time & nostalgia). I haven't read the spoilers, but it shouldn't be long anyway. Yes there will always be complainers, but that doesn't mean complaints aren't legitimate. TNA isn't some martyr of the internet. There is a reason they get complaints. There was a time when people chanted TNA at RAW so TNA hasn't always just been the victim of negative fans, at one point they were the beneficiary of them. They just refuse to ever follow up on any goodwill they receive.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,936
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Post by chazraps on Dec 18, 2013 13:52:18 GMT -5
I still stand by the last six months of 2012 being the most enjoyable that TNA's ever been. I would totally agree with like May - July 2012, but after that it's all Aces and Eights. Are you the chosen one, the single person that angle appealed to? Well, besides Eric Bischoff. I actually enjoyed the first year of it because of how legit vague and slow-burning it was. The fact that they kept changing the attackers week-after-week made it and the members a guessing game. Plus, the D-Von reveal is one of the most shocking unexpected surprises I've ever had as a fan. At that point there were at least five of us who liked the angle and I was one of them. But Aces and Eights didn't dominate the program by that point, you still had the Aries-Roode feud, the ever-more-absurd Daniels-Styles feud, the best Bound For Glory series, Samoa Joe returning prestige to the TV belt, etc. There was still a lot going on before it became the Aces and Eights show.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 22:14:06 GMT -5
I'll take mid-late 2009 TNA, myself. The product was legitimately awesome at that point, blew WWE out of the water (not that it was hard to do, all they had at that point was the Straight Edge Society).
Then, Hogan.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2013 0:30:39 GMT -5
I still stand by the last six months of 2012 being the most enjoyable that TNA's ever been. I would totally agree with like May - July 2012, but after that it's all Aces and Eights. Are you the chosen one, the single person that angle appealed to? Well, besides Eric Bischoff. I was totally invested in the angle until about January when it felt like it was just dragging along, then Bully FINALLY revealed himself as the leader and I was onboard again but that excitement died pretty damn quickly until I was screaming for them to stop beating that dead horse.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2013 0:35:01 GMT -5
I'll take mid-late 2009 TNA, myself. The product was legitimately awesome at that point, blew WWE out of the water (not that it was hard to do, all they had at that point was the Straight Edge Society). Then, Hogan. That was really a great period. It felt like they really focused on being an alternative until The Hogan Effect happened. Like, watching a show from November 2009 and then a show from February 2010 is like night and day in how dramatic the quality dropped.
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Post by Straight Edge Scrotum on Dec 22, 2013 7:57:08 GMT -5
I really miss Monty Brown. I miss seeing guys like Jerry Lynn and Kaval on every week in actual wrestling matches without a bunch of needlessly complex BS to go with it. I also miss matches that had solid endings where one guy won and someone lost without a lot of shenanigans in every match. To me, THAT was what made TNA stand out. The six-sided ring was good and the talent that was in the X-Division, the Knockouts division (especially when they had ODB, Kong, Beautiful People and etc in the line-up) and the different and distinct tag teams were something special. And as someone else said in another TNA thread, I miss when they had actual gimmicks.
I didn't mind Jarrett doing his thing because it was always a decent match. And when Joe came in and really got to show his stuff in an almost pure wrestling environment, it was amazing. The yearly Super X Cup and the international flare that was always present with guys like Hector Garza, La Parka and others. That's the TNA that I wish was still here, when the show flowed because of the matches and not just rushing from one backstage segment/promo to the next. Much as I like Hogan, it fell apart when he started doing more than just showing up, cutting the standard Hogan promo, talking up the younger guys then calling it a night. Bubba the Love Sponge, the Nasty Boys...yeah, no thank you.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 22, 2013 11:05:29 GMT -5
In some ways I feel the issues are a blessing in disguise for TNA. Not saying they will recover, but the issues have forced them to re-evaluate quite a few things. They've got some things already they can work with, they just have to make other decisions... now with TNA that's a big if.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,273
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Post by The Ichi on Dec 22, 2013 12:42:59 GMT -5
Jeff Jarrett aside, 2006 TNA was best TNA.
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