Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Dec 12, 2013 15:51:32 GMT -5
The main difference IMO is that 1987 Andre was better than 2013 Hogan, and 1987 Hogan better than 2013 Cena But that doesn't matter. Nobody watched Andre vs Hogan thinking "Hey this match would be great. Two guys with tremendous movesets. Gonna settle in for a classic" It's about a name, a character, an icon, a memory, an emotional attachment - being more important than in-ring work.If you even think about how the match would work bell to bell, you're missing so much of the point as to why historically these sort of matches involving someone who by legitimate means has no right to be there, have often been the most memorable and engaging matches there has ever been.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Dec 12, 2013 15:57:20 GMT -5
Hogan and Cena understand psychology in the ring. They can go at a low speed with stalling and still have the crowd eat it up. Add that with perhaps a ref bump and Cena and Hogan having to fight off run-in after run-in of people from both men's past and you have a fun match. I'd really play up Hogan's back and have it give way in the middle of the match. Have them do some basic headlocks, shoving, punching etc before that. When suddenly Cena is over the other side of the ring, have Hogan scream in agony and fall to the floor unprompted. Really sell it as a "This match probably cant contiue" have trainers rush down to the ring, bringing a stretcher. "OH no King, it's Hogan's back it's.....his back has gone. We always feared this might happen. We hoped it didn't. The referee now has a decision to make here. Does he let the match continue?" Then Cena, looks at the crowd in a 'what should I do?' moment of struggling with his conscience before walking over consolatory to Hogan. Referee signals to Cena to get a chair so Hogan can sit down. He leaves the ring, he gets the chair....WHAM!!! He knocks Hogan back to the ground and goes uber heel on his ass. The crowd are outraged! So it caries on a brual beat down. Chairs, steps, kendo sticks. Then the usual, the Hulk up, crowd goes absolutely mental, finger point, three punches, big boot, Cena counters before Hogan can drop the leg and he pins him. After the match they do the handshake. Cena celebrates, he departs and Hogan is in the ring, Real American plays for one last and final pose-down. Exit stage left.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 12, 2013 15:59:47 GMT -5
The main difference IMO is that 1987 Andre was better than 2013 Hogan, and 1987 Hogan better than 2013 Cena But that doesn't matter. Nobody watched Andre vs Hogan thinking "Hey this match would be great. Two guys with tremendous movesets. Gonna settle in for a classic" It's about a name, a character, an icon, a memory, an emotional attachment - being more important than in-ring work.If you even think about how the match would work bell to bell, you're missing so much of the point as to why historically these sort of matches involving someone who by legitimate means has no right to be there, have often been the most memorable and engaging matches there has ever been. They didn't need the moveset. That match was sold on the basis of the occasion and a compelling storyline. It wasn't just about the quality of the match, or even the title, but a broken friendship. Cena vs Hogan would have none of that IMO
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BigBadZ
Grimlock
The Rumors Are All True
Posts: 13,923
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Post by BigBadZ on Dec 12, 2013 16:00:50 GMT -5
Hogan and Cena understand psychology in the ring. They can go at a low speed with stalling and still have the crowd eat it up. Add that with perhaps a ref bump and Cena and Hogan having to fight off run-in after run-in of people from both men's past and you have a fun match. I'd really play up Hogan's back and have it give way in the middle of the match. Have them do some basic headlocks, shoving, punching etc before that. When suddenly Cena is over the other side of the ring, have Hogan scream in agony and fall to the floor unprompted. Really sell it as a "This match probably cant contiue" have trainers rush down to the ring, bringing a stretcher. "OH no King, it's Hogan's back it's.....his back has gone. We always feared this might happen. We hoped it didn't. The referee now has a decision to make here. Does he let the match continue?" Then Cena, looks at the crowd in a 'what should I do?' moment of struggling with his conscience before walking over consolatory to Hogan. Referee signals to Cena to get a chair so Hogan can sit down. He leaves the ring, he gets the chair....WHAM!!! He knocks Hogan back to the ground and goes uber heel on his ass. The crowd are outraged! So it caries on a brual beat down. Chairs, steps, kendo sticks. Then the usual, the Hulk up, crowd goes absolutely mental, finger point, three punches, big boot, Cena counters before Hogan can drop the leg and he pins him. After the match they do the handshake. Cena celebrates, he departs and Hogan is in the ring, Real American plays for one last and final pose-down. Exit stage left. Then Hogan is confined to a wheel chair for the rest of his life..... **Edit** Here is the match JOHN CENA would be in. Ya know, the TOP GUY IN WRESTLING TODAY WM 26 Hart vs McMahon
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2013 16:07:17 GMT -5
Hogan can't get back to WWE fast enough for me. I don't care if I ever see Rock on my screen again.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Dec 12, 2013 16:07:33 GMT -5
Well the conditions have to be right. It cannot just be any old cretin with a broken back. Andre meant a lot because to that point he had been the biggest attraction in wrestling. Hogan was the 'now' star and undoubtely more over and popular than Andre but Andre meant a hell of a lot to a hell of a lot of people. It's why his heel turn wasn't just "Slow old git who can't move now is a baddie" it was "Jesus Christ, Andre is with Heenan? THE Andre the Giant?"
It's similar to Hogan. Like it or not he still means a hell of a lot to many people. He's the reason a good portion of us are fans. It's not just some random legend who can't go anymore.There is more emotional investment in Hogan than perhaps any other wrestler there has ever been. He's Princess Diana, JFK, Neil Armstrong, Elvis and Churchill rolled into one. He really is the 'people's superstar' and although for health reasons he should retire, there's no harm in giving him one last hurrah. He deserves it and he has the emotional connection with the audience to carry it through, regardless as to how technically impressive the match is.
I'll bet, if it happens, Meltzer will probably award it DUD status or more minus stars than it's possible to fit onto a line of text but I'll also guarantee nothing will get as much interest/emotion from the crowd ether in the arena or at home.
Face if, even if you don't want to see the match, when it comes to Wrestlemania Sunday and you settle in with your popcorn and cans of beer to watch the show - you'll be secretly looking forward to that match as much with any other. It can't carry on and it should be his last match but I think few people would be being genuine if they didn't admit a small part of them wanted to see it, if only to be able to witness the final Hogan match
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 12, 2013 16:09:56 GMT -5
Cena vs Stone Cold would be more compelling.
The torchbearer of the Attitude Era vs the one from the present era.
If Hogan has to be involved, let him be the ref.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Dec 12, 2013 16:11:10 GMT -5
I'd really play up Hogan's back and have it give way in the middle of the match. Have them do some basic headlocks, shoving, punching etc before that. When suddenly Cena is over the other side of the ring, have Hogan scream in agony and fall to the floor unprompted. Really sell it as a "This match probably cant contiue" have trainers rush down to the ring, bringing a stretcher. "OH no King, it's Hogan's back it's.....his back has gone. We always feared this might happen. We hoped it didn't. The referee now has a decision to make here. Does he let the match continue?" Then Cena, looks at the crowd in a 'what should I do?' moment of struggling with his conscience before walking over consolatory to Hogan. Referee signals to Cena to get a chair so Hogan can sit down. He leaves the ring, he gets the chair....WHAM!!! He knocks Hogan back to the ground and goes uber heel on his ass. The crowd are outraged! So it caries on a brual beat down. Chairs, steps, kendo sticks. Then the usual, the Hulk up, crowd goes absolutely mental, finger point, three punches, big boot, Cena counters before Hogan can drop the leg and he pins him. After the match they do the handshake. Cena celebrates, he departs and Hogan is in the ring, Real American plays for one last and final pose-down. Exit stage left. Then Hogan is confined to a wheel chair for the rest of his life..... Why would that happen? This morbid curiosity that everyone is one punch away from a "wheelchair" is quite bizarre. Hogan's got a bad back but if he's so fragile that he cannot 'pretend fight' for twenty minutes then he's really too fragile to leave the house. As far as I can see - he isn't
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Dec 12, 2013 16:12:00 GMT -5
Vs. The Rock.
Hogan can not walk and will undoubtedly end up crippled or worse if he attempts to take any kind of bump at this point.
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Post by WorkingInAColeMine on Dec 12, 2013 16:13:05 GMT -5
For a match to have psychology one of the two people has to be able to somewhat move.
Great Khali is more mobile that Hulk at this point
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Dec 12, 2013 16:27:13 GMT -5
For a match to have psychology one of the two people has to be able to somewhat move. Great Khali is more mobile that Hulk at this point I don't understand what you mean by "psychology" if you're linking it to in-ring ability. Psychology, to me, is being able to just look someone in the eye and the crowd think "**** this is awesome"
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BigBadZ
Grimlock
The Rumors Are All True
Posts: 13,923
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Post by BigBadZ on Dec 12, 2013 16:28:32 GMT -5
Then Hogan is confined to a wheel chair for the rest of his life..... Why would that happen? This morbid curiosity that everyone is one punch away from a "wheelchair" is quite bizarre. Hogan's got a bad back but if he's so fragile that he cannot 'pretend fight' for twenty minutes then he's really too fragile to leave the house. As far as I can see - he isn't Mainly because of your booking him getting beat with various weapons and doing a leg drop.... and then add that it's supposed to be 20 minutes
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Post by DZ: WF Legacy on Dec 12, 2013 18:09:51 GMT -5
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Professor Chaos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bringer of Destruction and Maker of Doom
Posts: 16,332
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Post by Professor Chaos on Dec 12, 2013 19:37:36 GMT -5
Hogan if it has to be one or the other.
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Post by celticjobber on Dec 12, 2013 19:41:06 GMT -5
vs. The Rock.
And only because Hogan's so old and broken down, that I fear he could either die or become crippled by working a Wrestlemania match. And even if he didn't, the match would be horrendous.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Dec 12, 2013 19:59:50 GMT -5
If it has to be one of these two, then Hogan, but Cena seriously needs a big Wrestlemania feud built around a rival of his own generation. And I don't meant that as a "they shouldn't bring back old guys for Wrestlemania" thing, because I can totally see the logic behind bringing back big-name stars from the past for Wrestlemania, but it's time to give Cena a program without one.
Cena's Wrestlemania main events have been against Triple H, Shawn Michaels, and the Rock three times (once with Miz as a third wheel proxy). Every single one of those has been about the story of how Cena measures up to the legends of the past. Enough is enough. Give him a fresh feud, and let Hogan kick somebody else's ass.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 13, 2013 9:55:30 GMT -5
The main difference IMO is that 1987 Andre was better than 2013 Hogan, and 1987 Hogan better than 2013 Cena But that doesn't matter. Nobody watched Andre vs Hogan thinking "Hey this match would be great. Two guys with tremendous movesets. Gonna settle in for a classic" It's about a name, a character, an icon, a memory, an emotional attachment - being more important than in-ring work.If you even think about how the match would work bell to bell, you're missing so much of the point as to why historically these sort of matches involving someone who by legitimate means has no right to be there, have often been the most memorable and engaging matches there has ever been. Yeah but there is a difference between a match that sucks and an absolute non-match. In fact even a non-match - like if Bret had just clobbered Vince with a couple of moves, put him in the Sharpshooter and that had been that - can be great, but you can't do that with Hogan/Cena. We're not talking about low workrate here, we're talking about a match that would make Giant Silva vs. Great Khali look like Flair/Steamboat.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 13, 2013 18:42:57 GMT -5
I really don't understand why people still think Hogan should be booked in another real match ever again. The guy can't even drop the leg anymore. That's no insult to the Hulkster, I'm just being realistic. I quite like the idea I've seen a lot of people kick around on here, which is a 30 Years of WrestleMania battle royale at WrestleMania 30. Minimal bumping for the guys, and Hogan could still look great just using clotheslines and the big boot. One problem is that with the battle Royal, the outcome is way too obvious. Hogan pretty much has to win if only because he can't get knocked over the top rope.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 18:50:09 GMT -5
I really don't understand why people still think Hogan should be booked in another real match ever again. The guy can't even drop the leg anymore. That's no insult to the Hulkster, I'm just being realistic. I quite like the idea I've seen a lot of people kick around on here, which is a 30 Years of WrestleMania battle royale at WrestleMania 30. Minimal bumping for the guys, and Hogan could still look great just using clotheslines and the big boot. One problem is that with the battle Royal, the outcome is way too obvious. Hogan pretty much has to win if only because he can't get knocked over the top rope. What if they apply Diva battle royal rules and you just have to be kicked out of the ring? And add the senior citizens TNA ramp on one side for WM30 & Hogan literally has to roll out from the ring on the ramp...
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Dec 13, 2013 18:51:25 GMT -5
I really don't understand why people still think Hogan should be booked in another real match ever again. The guy can't even drop the leg anymore. That's no insult to the Hulkster, I'm just being realistic. I quite like the idea I've seen a lot of people kick around on here, which is a 30 Years of WrestleMania battle royale at WrestleMania 30. Minimal bumping for the guys, and Hogan could still look great just using clotheslines and the big boot. One problem is that with the battle Royal, the outcome is way too obvious. Hogan pretty much has to win if only because he can't get knocked over the top rope. It'll be more obvious than The Iron Sheik winning the Wrestlemania 17 battle royal
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