Glitch
King Koopa
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
Posts: 12,699
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Post by Glitch on Dec 24, 2013 20:13:41 GMT -5
Being rich doesn't give you super ninja skillz, a great scientific mind, nor does it give you the ability to mope and mope and mope and still look cool. Batman has all those things because he's a hard worker. His gadgets are secondary. If Alfred lost all of the Wayne Family's money and skipped the country, then Batman would still have been a successful crime fighter. And he would have had one more thing to whine about. (I love Batman) You're right, but being rich gave him the resources to obtain the best education possible, which gave him the super ninja skills and the scientific mind. That's not opinion, that's fact. And yeah, I know, "facts" about a fictional character don't really mean much, but I'm just trying to be objective here. I'm not saying he didn't earn his abilities. But he'd be a very different character if he weren't rich. Hell, honestly, I kind of want to see DC do an Elseworlds where Batman's born poor to see how he'd become Batman/what it would be like without an unlimited bank account. Not from Elseworlds, but pretty much what you asked for.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 24, 2013 22:24:02 GMT -5
Didn't he make most of his gadgets? Or at least fund the people who did make them? Now, Green Lantern...there's a hero who was handed everything on a silver platter. I only know the basic power of the Green Lantern, how was he handed everything on a silver platter? Hal: an alien fell from space and gave him a magic ring. he might as well have gotten it on a silver platter. Kyle: a different alien fell from space next to a house party. he saw Kyle, said "you'll do", gave him the ring and that was that. once again, might as well have had a silver platter. then again, how many superheroes have ever actually "earned" it? Iron Man's the only one I can think of.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 24, 2013 22:57:01 GMT -5
I only know the basic power of the Green Lantern, how was he handed everything on a silver platter? Hal: an alien fell from space and gave him a magic ring. he might as well have gotten it on a silver platter. Kyle: a different alien fell from space next to a house party. he saw Kyle, said "you'll do", gave him the ring and that was that. once again, might as well have had a silver platter. then again, how many superheroes have ever actually "earned" it? Iron Man's the only one I can think of. Iron Man, like Batman, inherited a fortune and a world-class technology company. He did develop the suit himself, but the same logic applies to him as does Batman, only with more alcoholism. I'd say Captain America, The Hulk, and Fantastic Four have themselves entirely to thank for their powers. Well, Captain America has others, but he was chosen because of his own attitude and hard work. Batman wasn't handed everything, but he is definitely the product of having so many resources. Without that, he'd be The Question (who Rorschach is based off of), a minor hero dealing with purely street level crime and not being uttered in the same breath as Superman, Wonder Woman, etc.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Dec 24, 2013 23:35:34 GMT -5
I'm honestly not familiar with Booster Gold. Has he ever been essentially killed and replaced by his arch-nemesis? Has he made a deal with the devil for selfish reasons? Has he accidentally killed his first love? Has he been replaced by a clone who was the real him until it was not, in fact, the real him? I wanna hear this Gold kid's sob story. Booster Gold was for most of his run a douchenozzle from the future trying to gain glory in the past after blowing his own glory in the future(he was a stud college QB who fell from grace when he was caught taking a dive). Eventually, however, he would become the guardian of the DC universe's time stream, making sure the past, present, and future was safe, the catch is because his work was behind the scenes, no one would know of his exploits except for other people with access to the time stream. In other words, he went from being a glory hound that was the butt of many jokes to being DC's greatest super hero(because it was thanks to his work all the other heroes still exist), but barely anyone would know it. So he's still treated as a joke by everyone else. Oh and then there is all the stuff that happened to Blue Beetle, the only guy who liked him from the start.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 24, 2013 23:46:01 GMT -5
I'm honestly not familiar with Booster Gold. Has he ever been essentially killed and replaced by his arch-nemesis? Has he made a deal with the devil for selfish reasons? Has he accidentally killed his first love? Has he been replaced by a clone who was the real him until it was not, in fact, the real him? I wanna hear this Gold kid's sob story. Booster Gold was for most of his run a douchenozzle from the future trying to gain glory in the past after blowing his own glory in the future(he was a stud college QB who fell from grace when he was caught taking a dive). Eventually, however, he would become the guardian of the DC universe's time stream, making sure the past, present, and future was safe, the catch is because his work was behind the scenes, no one would know of his exploits except for other people with access to the time stream. In other words, he went from being a glory hound that was the butt of many jokes to being DC's greatest super hero(because it was thanks to his work all the other heroes still exist), but barely anyone would know it. So he's still treated as a joke by everyone else. Oh and then there is all the stuff that happened to Blue Beetle, the only guy who liked him from the start. He is often mistaken for Green Lantern as well
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kolani
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 516
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Post by kolani on Dec 25, 2013 1:05:59 GMT -5
Hal: an alien fell from space and gave him a magic ring. he might as well have gotten it on a silver platter. Kyle: a different alien fell from space next to a house party. he saw Kyle, said "you'll do", gave him the ring and that was that. once again, might as well have had a silver platter. then again, how many superheroes have ever actually "earned" it? Iron Man's the only one I can think of. Iron Man, like Batman, inherited a fortune and a world-class technology company. He did develop the suit himself, but the same logic applies to him as does Batman, only with more alcoholism. I'd say Captain America, The Hulk, and Fantastic Four have themselves entirely to thank for their powers. Well, Captain America has others, but he was chosen because of his own attitude and hard work. Batman wasn't handed everything, but he is definitely the product of having so many resources. Without that, he'd be The Question (who Rorschach is based off of), a minor hero dealing with purely street level crime and not being uttered in the same breath as Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. The Hulk and the FF got their powers entirely due to their screwups.
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El Pollo Guerrera
Grimlock
His name has chicken in it, and he is good at makin' .gifs, so that's cool.
Status: Runner
Posts: 14,659
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on Dec 25, 2013 1:46:33 GMT -5
The Hulk and the FF got their powers entirely due to their screwups. Hulk was more caused by Rick Jones' screw-up, in my opinion. As for the Fantastic Four, wasn't there some story or something where Reed revealed that it was intentional but he didn't know what the final outcome was going to be?
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 25, 2013 2:18:01 GMT -5
The Hulk and the FF got their powers entirely due to their screwups. Hulk was more caused by Rick Jones' screw-up, in my opinion. Also it was the fault of the Russian double agent trying to kill Banner... he could have cancelled the test but didn't as he wanted to cripple the US's nuclear program.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2013 2:45:47 GMT -5
In story, Bats has had to work pretty hard to be able to use any of the resources he's been given.
But I could complain all day about how's he's written as way too over the top, good at everything.
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Post by DSR on Dec 25, 2013 3:04:24 GMT -5
So?
Being "handed" an opportunity isn't as important to the story as what the character does with it.
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EyeofTyr
Hank Scorpio
Strange and Mystical
Posts: 5,744
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Post by EyeofTyr on Dec 25, 2013 3:07:52 GMT -5
Nevermind that all of the training people are conveniently breezing by in this discussion wasn't exactly a cake walk. Depending on the variation of the tale, there is usually at least one instance of him training under some questionable people. People that easily could've killed him themselves and/or set him up to be in a situation where he could've died.
Afterall, that was the point. To get people who didn't care who he was to train under, so that he would have to earn it and would develop actual skill. Rather than them letting him coast and just wanting a paycheck from him.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 25, 2013 7:41:46 GMT -5
Iron Man, like Batman, inherited a fortune and a world-class technology company. He did develop the suit himself, but the same logic applies to him as does Batman, only with more alcoholism. I'd say Captain America, The Hulk, and Fantastic Four have themselves entirely to thank for their powers. Well, Captain America has others, but he was chosen because of his own attitude and hard work. Batman wasn't handed everything, but he is definitely the product of having so many resources. Without that, he'd be The Question (who Rorschach is based off of), a minor hero dealing with purely street level crime and not being uttered in the same breath as Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. The Hulk and the FF got their powers entirely due to their screwups. Hulk was already addressed, but even with the FF, they still earned it. Their powers were accidental side effects, but they were side effects that they caused, as opposed to inheriting billions or being born with their powers. Every hero undergoes training, but thoes heroes are directly responsible for the circumstances that gave them their powers in the first place.
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Post by Alexander The So-so on Dec 25, 2013 20:06:05 GMT -5
You're right, but being rich gave him the resources to obtain the best education possible, which gave him the super ninja skills and the scientific mind. That's not opinion, that's fact. And yeah, I know, "facts" about a fictional character don't really mean much, but I'm just trying to be objective here. I'm not saying he didn't earn his abilities. But he'd be a very different character if he weren't rich. Hell, honestly, I kind of want to see DC do an Elseworlds where Batman's born poor to see how he'd become Batman/what it would be like without an unlimited bank account. They already did, kind of. Superman: Red Son, wherein Superman landed in Stalinist Ukraine rather than Kansas. Batman was, as I recall, the son of poor farmers. He still almost pulls a Batman Gambit in order to kill Superman. Somebody like Bruce Wayne is naturally resourceful--he'd find a way regardless of his socioeconomic status. Peter Parker, for example, didn't exactly have an upper class background but was able to invent amazing gadgets and become one of the most successful heroes of all time. Wasn't there a rumor going around that Christopher Nolan toyed around with the idea of having his Batman movies be about a Bruce Wayne who was born a middle-class Joe Average, and had to become Batman off of an Everyman's budget? I'm very sure I heard that idea floating around.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 25, 2013 21:06:46 GMT -5
They already did, kind of. Superman: Red Son, wherein Superman landed in Stalinist Ukraine rather than Kansas. Batman was, as I recall, the son of poor farmers. He still almost pulls a Batman Gambit in order to kill Superman. Somebody like Bruce Wayne is naturally resourceful--he'd find a way regardless of his socioeconomic status. Peter Parker, for example, didn't exactly have an upper class background but was able to invent amazing gadgets and become one of the most successful heroes of all time. Wasn't there a rumor going around that Christopher Nolan toyed around with the idea of having his Batman movies be about a Bruce Wayne who was born a middle-class Joe Average, and had to become Batman off of an Everyman's budget? I'm very sure I heard that idea floating around. it was Darren Aronofsky's idea, back when he was going to handle the reboot. from what I understand he wasnted to change a lot of things and the character would've scarcely even resembled Batman anymore.
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Post by xCompackx on Dec 25, 2013 22:24:14 GMT -5
They already did, kind of. Superman: Red Son, wherein Superman landed in Stalinist Ukraine rather than Kansas. Batman was, as I recall, the son of poor farmers. He still almost pulls a Batman Gambit in order to kill Superman. Somebody like Bruce Wayne is naturally resourceful--he'd find a way regardless of his socioeconomic status. Peter Parker, for example, didn't exactly have an upper class background but was able to invent amazing gadgets and become one of the most successful heroes of all time. Wasn't there a rumor going around that Christopher Nolan toyed around with the idea of having his Batman movies be about a Bruce Wayne who was born a middle-class Joe Average, and had to become Batman off of an Everyman's budget? I'm very sure I heard that idea floating around. I think that'd be an awesome idea for a movie, honestly. I mean, the Batarangs in Batman Begins were just metal bits shaped like a bat and the Tumbler was basically just a tank with a rocket booster on the back (Not saying a tank is exactly easy to get with an Everyman's budget, but I'm sure something could be cobbled together).
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Post by austinariesfan88 on Dec 25, 2013 22:50:39 GMT -5
I only know the basic power of the Green Lantern, how was he handed everything on a silver platter? Hal: an alien fell from space and gave him a magic ring. he might as well have gotten it on a silver platter. Kyle: a different alien fell from space next to a house party. he saw Kyle, said "you'll do", gave him the ring and that was that. once again, might as well have had a silver platter. then again, how many superheroes have ever actually "earned" it? Iron Man's the only one I can think of. Yeah but to be chosen to become a Green Lantern is a great responsibility and high honor and also Hal had to get trained by Kilowog so it wasn't all easy.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2013 23:56:18 GMT -5
I'm not the biggest Marvel fan, but I'd say Hawkeye is a good example of someone who didn't have anything handed to him on a silver platter. He's also the second best Marvel book on the shelf right now - behind Foes.
Not a billionaire, not injected with superpowers or gifted with skill on purpose or accident. Also lost both his parents at a young age, but to a car accident.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Dec 26, 2013 1:38:42 GMT -5
I'm not the biggest Marvel fan, but I'd say Hawkeye is a good example of someone who didn't have anything handed to him on a silver platter. He's also the second best Marvel book on the shelf right now - behind Foes. Not a billionaire, not injected with superpowers or gifted with skill on purpose or accident. Also lost both his parents at a young age, but to a car accident. I agree. Hawkeye is great and he earned everything.
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JDviant
Unicron
XB1 username: lil giant robot
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Post by JDviant on Dec 26, 2013 15:30:48 GMT -5
Yeah, he was handed everything to him. After his parents were brutally murdered in front of his eight year old eyes. He may have all the resources in the world, but it won't get his parents back. In the DCU, I'm willing to bet that if Batman did put all his resources into it, it could happen. Time travel/resurrection isn't anywhere near impossible. He won't, but I bet he could.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Dec 26, 2013 16:25:43 GMT -5
Your friend is right. Wayne's a trust fund hero. If his parents didn't will him all that money and industry he wouldn't have been able to fund his "learn secret ninja shit" world tour. Odds are he'd just end up in therapy and Gotham would ULTIMATELY be much safer. Depending on the version you go with, he utilized none of his money when he traveled the globe. He did it nomad style.
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