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Post by RAW IS GWAR on Dec 27, 2013 12:45:10 GMT -5
Extreme rules 2012 Well here comes the same...
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Post by BV on Dec 27, 2013 22:04:33 GMT -5
It's a non-PPV match, but Cena beating Ziggler clean in that cage match on Raw was ridiculous. All Ziggler needed was ONE win over Cena, and he would have been solidified, but nope. He beat Cena at TLC The story of that match was not Ziggler winning in the slightest bit, it was AJ turning. Come on now. Ziggler didn't look legit ONCE in that entire feud, a legitimate win in that cage match would have done wonders.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 27, 2013 23:58:48 GMT -5
Over Brock Lesnar at Extreme Rules. I get it...Cena "needed a win" after Mania, but why did it have to come at the expense of a guy who had a "real" aura to him? He can always get his win back, but to deflate Lesnar right out of the gate was ridiculous. But since they later tried to go with the "Boohoo, losing to Rock ruined my whole year, and I need to beat him this time" story, it turned out that he didn't even "need" to win. A loss to Brock would've added to the whole Cena's still distracted by being upset from losing at Mania thing. Honestly, this made it worse- the Lesnar/Extreme Rules thing is more blatant as a "Cena probably played Creative Control to get the Lesnar win, just because if you make THAT ONE CHANGE to booking and have Cena lose to Brock Lesnar at Extreme Rules, the storyline progression for John Cena's 2012-13 "season" works absolutely perfectly: -In the biggest match of Cena's career- a Once In A Lifetime match, John Cena...falls short for the first time, to The Rock. He puts on a brave face, but he's reeling inside. Brock Lesnar then proceeds to debut and attack a broken Cena. -Cena tries to fight back on Lesnar for the good of the WWE, but it's more clear- especially to people who know Cena best, his rivals- that Cena's still devastated by the Rock loss. They light a fire under his ass.. (Then Cena loses again.) -Now, Cena's really spiraling downwards. In real life, Cena's divorce leaks [giving his story that little touch of "reality" that people want in their wrestling since the Pipebomb]. In the ring, he's losing to guys like Tensai, who Cena would normally be able to steamroll. John Laurinatis sees it as the proper time to go with his ultimate power trip, challenging Cena in order to take out the fans' hero and be the real star of the show. Cena's fans think "This is it, THIS is where Cena gets his mojo back"...and then Big Show's attacks. John Laurinatis has beaten John Cena, and Cena's undeniably [pun entirely intended] hit rock bottom. -Cena tries fighting back against Big Show in revenge, but now it becomes- rather than "Can John Cena slam Big Show...again...like all the other times?", it's "Big Show's finally gotten his mojo back as a monster, and Cena's lost all of his- how can Cena beat The Big Show now?" The answer: Cena's friends still believe in him- they help him in the cage match when Big Show tries things, and this lifts Cena up enough to get the win and start on the long road back. -Cena now is on the upswing again- but he's not truly BACK yet. He knows he's not CENA yet, so as his attempt to get back to the top, Cena has to do something he never thought he'd do, and one year ago was unfathomable to Cena: He entered Money in the Bank to try and get a briefcase for a title shot. Cena wins- but since he's John Cena, he does the honorable thing and becomes the second man to give advance notice to the champion... -...and at Raw 1000, just as Cena looked like he was back, he fails. DQ, Rock, Punk attack- but John Cena's become the first MITB winner to fail to win the title- an ultimate insult for his record, and now he's back down into the hole. And when CM Punk allies with Paul Heyman, the mastermind of Brock Lesnar, things look hopeless again. -The answer- Cena does sort of give up. The only thing Cena can do to try and get back out of this spiral of depression is take himself out of the title hunt. He steps aside, lets Ryback have a title shot, then tries to relax a bit. He hooks up with AJ, tries to relax- but AJ's problems become his problems. Dolph Ziggler attacks him- and Ziggler beats him after AJ turns her back on him. -Now, the Royal Rumble has started. Cena wins the Rumble and is going to Wrestlemania, then summarily dispatches his biggest demons of the year- first CM Punk to keep his title shot, then finally slays The Rock at Mania 29 and truly is BACK at the top. Change that one match, and Cena's entire year was one great story arc. With the win- it's just another "Cena runs afoul of [X]."
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Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Tony Schiavone in Disguise
Working myself into a shoot
Posts: 15,819
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Dec 28, 2013 6:34:21 GMT -5
The story of that match was not Ziggler winning in the slightest bit, it was AJ turning. Come on now. Ziggler didn't look legit ONCE in that entire feud, a legitimate win in that cage match would have done wonders. I'm STILL annoyed about the match they had on Raw when Cena kicked out of the Zig Zag AND the Big Ending and then just beat him with the AA.
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Post by xCompackx on Dec 28, 2013 8:22:16 GMT -5
He shouldnt have gone over Rock at Mania 29. Rock should have dropped it a month later at Extreme Rules. I wish I could understand how someone on Creative thought that Cena needed a "pass the torch" moment by beating Rock at WrestleMania, especially when it's hardly ever mentioned.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,216
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Post by The Ichi on Dec 28, 2013 9:02:55 GMT -5
I know a lot of people don't like him, but Del Rio losing to Cena at NoC 2011 was ridiculous. You can tell it was done for the sole purpose of bumping Cenas title reign count up by 1 more, since the ADR won it back the next month to transition into the Punk year+ long reign. I actually tend to defend Cena most times he goes over, but that one annoyed me.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Dec 28, 2013 9:08:56 GMT -5
He shouldnt have gone over Rock at Mania 29. Rock should have dropped it a month later at Extreme Rules. I wish I could understand how someone on Creative thought that Cena needed a "pass the torch" moment by beating Rock at WrestleMania, especially when it's hardly ever mentioned. The whole point of them doing the same match twice was so Cena could come out on top the second time. If Cena wasn't going to win, then there would have been no point in doing that match again. Not to mention, it'd make no sense for a part timer that wasn't even going to be around after WrestleMania to retain the title. What did you want him to do, toss the championship in the trash on his way out? And it wasn't really a "pass the torch" moment. It was just a match that the WWE knew would draw in the fans. Simple as that.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2013 10:09:01 GMT -5
BRRRRRRRROOOOCK! LESSSNARRRRRRRRR!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2013 15:53:23 GMT -5
HBK at WM23. The whole main event and finish felt like a rehash of WM22 but at least with WM22, the finish was used to establish Cena as the top guy. At this point Cena was already the top guy and lots of people wanted to see HBK to hold the WWE Championship for the first time in 9 years.
Also another thing I would like to point out that Cena wins wouldn't feel so disappointing if Undertaker vs. Batista switched spots on the card with Cena vs. HBK. It was still pretty surreal to see a Royal Rumble winner winning the WHC title in the middle of the card especially for someone big as The Undertaker who hasn't been world champion in 5 years despite always being booked as the top guy. You figured with all those variables the main event will out deliver a bigger feel good moment then Batista vs. Undertaker but nope it didn't
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Lila
El Dandy
Slip N Slide World Champion 1997
Posts: 8,905
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Post by Lila on Dec 28, 2013 16:20:17 GMT -5
HBK at WM23. The whole main event and finish felt like a rehash of WM22 but at least with WM22, the finish was used to establish Cena as the top guy. At this point Cena was already the top guy and lots of people wanted to see HBK to hold the WWE Championship for the first time in 9 years. Also another thing I would like to point out that Cena wins wouldn't feel so disappointing if Undertaker vs. Batista switched spots on the card with Cena vs. HBK. It was still pretty surreal to see a Royal Rumble winner winning the WHC title in the middle of the card especially for someone big as The Undertaker who hasn't been world champion in 5 years despite always being booked as the top guy. You figured with all those variables the main event will out deliver a bigger feel good moment then Batista vs. Undertaker but nope it didn't I feel the same, but HBK was put into the match because HHH was injured with the match originally being a rematch from WM22.
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Dec 28, 2013 16:26:12 GMT -5
Despite that though, that is the finish Cena wanted. Jericho and Edge talked about that on this week's Talk is Jericho. Edge and Jericho both thought that Barrett should have won the match clean over Cena, but Cena thought the actual finish would be better. That's the first time I've heard respectable big-named talent from Cena's era out him for pulling the Hogan card. And so it begins...
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Post by Brooklynpunk97 on Dec 28, 2013 16:44:29 GMT -5
I wish I could understand how someone on Creative thought that Cena needed a "pass the torch" moment by beating Rock at WrestleMania, especially when it's hardly ever mentioned. The whole point of them doing the same match twice was so Cena could come out on top the second time. If Cena wasn't going to win, then there would have been no point in doing that match again. Not to mention, it'd make no sense for a part timer that wasn't even going to be around after WrestleMania to retain the title. What did you want him to do, toss the championship in the trash on his way out? And it wasn't really a "pass the torch" moment. It was just a match that the WWE knew would draw in the fans. Simple as that. Cena V. Rock was gonna draw anyway. Cena did not have to beat Rock at Mania. Cena would have gotten his win back, albeit, I much smaller stage but that shouldn't matter. Cena did not have to win at Mania. No one wanted him to win at mania. Just give the fans that one and let Rock beat Cena. The Rock never had a big WWE title win at Mania or anything close. Rock always lost the title AT Mania. Why did he have to lose this one? Who wanted him to lose this match? Cena could get the win back at Extreme Rules and everyone would still be happy. Cena goes over, Rock goes away. Done. At Extreme Rules. Cena has been on top for 8 years and counting. Cena doesnt need jack shit. Bring back Brock? Cena goes over Bring back Rock? Cena goes over Bring back Hogan? Cena will probably go over. Why dont we just let Austin face Cena and have Cena go over Austin? Cool? How aggravating this shit can be sometimes.
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Post by angryfan on Dec 28, 2013 16:58:12 GMT -5
The whole handling of Lesnar's return baffles me. I get wrestling is a work, I get that there are story lines and whatnot, but I don't get the Lesnar situation.
He leaves WWE and goes into MMA. He wins the UFC heavyweight title and looks like a monster. In the public eye, he's a certified badass killing machine.
WWE convinces him to come back after the diverticulitis on a part time basis. He comes back and...loes to Cena, then loes to Triple H.
You've got a guy with as much mainstream cred as you will EVER get, he's already over with the casual and long time audience, and he comes back to immediately have as many loses in half a year as he had in his entire MMA run, only "winning" his feud with Punk.
Neitehr Cena nor Trips benefits at all from beating Lesnar, and a loss damages Lesnar's credibility with the casual fan and the MMA crossover audience.
Yes, eventually you have Lesnar lose, but you build that, you make someone a threat, you use Lesnar's mainstream appeal to give someone else mainstream appeal. You don't just feed him to a pair of guys who gain nothing.
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JTH
Dennis Stamp
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Posts: 4,467
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Post by JTH on Dec 28, 2013 17:17:58 GMT -5
The Last Man Standing Match with Ryback @ Extreme Rules
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Dec 28, 2013 17:21:05 GMT -5
Over Miz in the run-up to Survivor Series 2011. The whole premise of drafting in The Rock was so they could handle the problem that was Miz and R-Truth. Cena beats Miz soundly, then turns around and clocks R-Truth, nullifying the need for The Rock's help.
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.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bye
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Member is Online
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Post by . on Dec 28, 2013 17:22:14 GMT -5
What is every time Alex.
I'll take obvious answers for $1000 please
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 28, 2013 17:24:29 GMT -5
Defeating Edge at the Royal Rumble a month after his MITB cash in when he was red hot. They could have dragged out the chase until Wrestlemania and made a lot of money. Exactly what I thought of; no need for the HHH match, this coulda been a great Mania moment for both John and Edge, and really solidified both's spots at the time. Plus Edge was just so hateable here, you could've gotten less of a split/more people behind Cena if you'd have dragged out Edge being dastardly and cowardly till Mania.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 28, 2013 17:32:44 GMT -5
The problem with Cena beating Lesnar, is that Lesnar spent practically the entire match beating Cena to death, only for Cena to win with a chain. That just doesn't convince anymore, in an era where DDT's on concrete floors and steel chair hits are sold for about 4 seconds. It was even worse afterwards when Cena made his speech when he should have been selling the beating like he was barely clinging onto life.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Dec 28, 2013 17:40:40 GMT -5
The whole point of them doing the same match twice was so Cena could come out on top the second time. If Cena wasn't going to win, then there would have been no point in doing that match again. Not to mention, it'd make no sense for a part timer that wasn't even going to be around after WrestleMania to retain the title. What did you want him to do, toss the championship in the trash on his way out? And it wasn't really a "pass the torch" moment. It was just a match that the WWE knew would draw in the fans. Simple as that. Cena V. Rock was gonna draw anyway. Cena did not have to beat Rock at Mania. Cena would have gotten his win back, albeit, I much smaller stage but that shouldn't matter. Cena did not have to win at Mania. No one wanted him to win at mania. Just give the fans that one and let Rock beat Cena. The Rock never had a big WWE title win at Mania or anything close. Rock always lost the title AT Mania. Why did he have to lose this one? Who wanted him to lose this match? Cena could get the win back at Extreme Rules and everyone would still be happy. Cena goes over, Rock goes away. Done. At Extreme Rules. Cena has been on top for 8 years and counting. Cena doesnt need jack shit. Bring back Brock? Cena goes over Bring back Rock? Cena goes over Bring back Hogan? Cena will probably go over. Why dont we just let Austin face Cena and have Cena go over Austin? Cool? How aggravating this shit can be sometimes. If Cena isn't allowed to beat a part timer at Mania, who is he allowed to beat? And what benefit is there of Rock winning? You say it's to give the fans what they want, as if Cena doesn't have any wrestling fans. Sure it may seem like that if you only listen to the live crowd at Mania, but they aren't the only fans. You have to think about the million+ people that bought the PPV. And the people that will be watching the shows after. And the people that will be paying for a ticket for those live after. All this when Rock won't be around. Thinking Rock should go over just because he's the more popular superstar with that one crowd is very short sighted. And on Cena not needing anything. Does that mean a 60 year old man like Hulk Hogan needs something from the WWE? He's already had his time on the top, and then he left. He went and worked for another wrestling company, and now he's little more than a broken down old man that can barely walk straight. You're damn right Cena should go over if they were to wrestle each other (though I hope they don't). Same with Austin. I wouldn't mind seeing him come back, but if he does, he should be used to put someone over. You see a lot of people begging for an Austin/Punk feud. How many of them do you think would be happy to see Austin beat Punk clean, and then just leave again?
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Post by angryfan on Dec 28, 2013 17:46:39 GMT -5
Cena V. Rock was gonna draw anyway. Cena did not have to beat Rock at Mania. Cena would have gotten his win back, albeit, I much smaller stage but that shouldn't matter. Cena did not have to win at Mania. No one wanted him to win at mania. Just give the fans that one and let Rock beat Cena. The Rock never had a big WWE title win at Mania or anything close. Rock always lost the title AT Mania. Why did he have to lose this one? Who wanted him to lose this match? Cena could get the win back at Extreme Rules and everyone would still be happy. Cena goes over, Rock goes away. Done. At Extreme Rules. Cena has been on top for 8 years and counting. Cena doesnt need jack shit. Bring back Brock? Cena goes over Bring back Rock? Cena goes over Bring back Hogan? Cena will probably go over. Why dont we just let Austin face Cena and have Cena go over Austin? Cool? How aggravating this shit can be sometimes. If Cena isn't allowed to beat a part timer at Mania, who is he allowed to beat? And what benefit is there of Rock winning? You say it's to give the fans what they want, as if Cena doesn't have any wrestling fans. Sure it may seem like that if you only listen to the live crowd at Mania, but they aren't the only fans. You have to think about the million+ people that bought the PPV. And the people that will be watching the shows after. And the people that will be paying for a ticket for those live after. All this when Rock won't be around. Thinking Rock should go over just because he's the more popular superstar with that one crowd is very short sighted. And on Cena not needing anything. Does that mean a 60 year old man like Hulk Hogan needs something from the WWE? He's already had his time on the top, and then he left. He went and worked for another wrestling company, and now he's little more than a broken down old man that can barely walk straight. You're damn right Cena should go over if they were to wrestle each other (though I hope they don't). Same with Austin. I wouldn't mind seeing him come back, but if he does, he should be used to put someone over. You see a lot of people begging for an Austin/Punk feud. How many of them do you think would be happy to see Austin beat Punk clean, and then just leave again? I get it, I do, I just feel that Cena, at this point, is in the wrong role. He's not Hogan, he's Andre. Hogan winning made him. Austin's KOTR win made him, both came against, in essence, part timers (Jake's run, Andre was an attraction). Cena is your Mania main event now, that's just how it is, but him beating anyone does no one any favors. I get they can not turn him heel, will not turn him heel, and all that, so what do we have? A guy who's character and place on the card is chiseled in stone. The only way to make money off a Cena match is to have him put someone over. A legend beating Cena accomplishes the same as Cena beating a legend. It's a moment, a pop, and nothing more. It's an impulse buy for the fans. Cena loses to someone who can actually benefit from it, and it's a way to keep making money.
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