Should Horror Villains Speak?

[ratetankmark]

Do you believe that villains like Michael Myers, Jason Voorhees or Freddy Kruger should speak? Would that take away the arua or do you think it could improve them?

[Push R Truth]

Totally depends on the atmosphere and character.

Freddy? Hell yes, it's a huge portion of his character.

[Koda, Master Crunchyroller]

Dec 27, 2013 14:31:25 GMT -5 Push R Truth said:

Totally depends on the atmosphere and character.

Freddy? Hell yes, it's a huge portion of his character.

Exactly. Jason and Michael shouldn't speak, they are walking forces of death. Freddy? Like 50% of his gimmick is his banter. It also makes sense, as he's more of a psychological evil, then a brute force death dealer.

[ratetankmark]

Dec 27, 2013 14:35:41 GMT -5 Koda, Master Crunchyroller said:

Dec 27, 2013 14:31:25 GMT -5 Push R Truth said:

Totally depends on the atmosphere and character.

Freddy? Hell yes, it's a huge portion of his character.

Exactly. Jason and Michael shouldn't speak, they are walking forces of death. Freddy? Like 50% of his gimmick is his banter. It also makes sense, as he's more of a psychological evil, then a brute force death dealer.

I understand that with Voorhees because I don't think he can speak, but Myers was a young man in the first film and we see that he's a real human being behind the mask (the fact that he looks so normal is scarier than if he looked like a monster) so I just thought it was that Myers could speak he just didn't want to, but if Freddy can speak and still be scary, in theory so could Myers.

[SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman]

Depends on the villain and what atmosphere the writers/director want to convey. Michael Myers or Jason Voorhees would lose a lot of their uncanny aura if they spoke (hi, Rob Zombie!), but Freddy Krueger wouldn't be nearly as memorable without his lines, Saw simply couldn't work with a silent killer (because contrary to what pretentious twats who haven't watched the movies claim, there IS more to these films than gore and torture... well, at least up until the 6th movie) and Candyman or the Cenobites would be little more than generic blood-thirsty demons without their discussions with their "victims".

[Deleted]

In some cases, horror villian dialogue is hammy and stupid like dude is some kind of comic book caliber mastermind heel and that just isn't necessary.

The real problem? Hacky, shoehorned character motivations.

Often these killers are completely undeveloped characters and they just throw some bullcrap about their Mom being ridiculous or whatever at the 3/4 mark and you're supposed to take that as a justification for their all actions. That's not okay.

You could do so much with these types characters and they... don't.

[ratetankmark]

Why can't we have a horror villain who is honest about being an asshole and kills people just for the sake of it, who needs a reason?

[CMWaters]

Dec 27, 2013 15:00:41 GMT -5 ratetankmark said:

Why can't we have a horror villain who is honest about being an asshole and kills people just for the sake of it, who needs a reason?

While part of his backstory is about why he goes into dreams on Elm Street and such...isn't that pretty much Freddy? I mean, before he first was killed, did he have a reason to become The Springwood Slasher?

[EvenBaldobombHasAJob]

REALLY depends on the kind of character they're supposed to be. the likes of Jason, Michael Myers and Leatherface are supposed to be behemoth killing machines who only barely qualify as even being human. someone like Freddy or Pinhead on the other hand needs to speak because they're more cerebral. the original NOES series and Hellraiser series wouldn't be what they are without Robert Englund's psycho quips or Doug Bradley's ominous lectures.

Dec 27, 2013 15:00:41 GMT -5 ratetankmark said:

Why can't we have a horror villain who is honest about being an asshole and kills people just for the sake of it, who needs a reason?

Freddy and Chucky are like that. Michael Myers is too (until they kept trying to give him motivations, which detracted from his character too much). and Pinhead having an utterly alien concept of morality is part of what makes him scary.

[Red Impact]

Dec 27, 2013 15:02:50 GMT -5 CMWaters said:

Dec 27, 2013 15:00:41 GMT -5 ratetankmark said:

Why can't we have a horror villain who is honest about being an asshole and kills people just for the sake of it, who needs a reason?

While part of his backstory is about why he goes into dreams on Elm Street and such...isn't that pretty much Freddy? I mean, before he first was killed, did he have a reason to become The Springwood Slasher?

He had the abusive dad/traumatic childhood thing, he was conceived when his mom was raped by asylum inmates, although they seem to indicate that it was always his nature to be evil.

ANd yeah, I agree that it's part of the character. The big, lumbering guys, if they talk, should only be a grunts or single words, never let them monologue. For less

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2013 15:00:41 GMT -5 ratetankmark said:

Why can't we have a horror villain who is honest about being an asshole and kills people just for the sake of it, who needs a reason?

The cannibal family from the original Texas Chain Saw Massacre fit that pretty much.

[SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman]

Dec 27, 2013 15:00:41 GMT -5 ratetankmark said:

Why can't we have a horror villain who is honest about being an asshole and kills people just for the sake of it, who needs a reason?

There have been attempts... and it gave us stuff like Hostel or The Human Centipede, and I don't imagine anybody wants more of that. I honestly can't think of a single good movie that did this. The thing is, villains who kill for no reason AND are aware of that are usually boring and/or stupid, not to mention they are not credible as no-one, not even among the worst, most unashamed criminals in history, has ever honestly said "I'm the bad guy and I'm proud of it". It's just hard to take a villain seriously when they announce themselves as the villain (unless they're being ironic in a "if what I'm doing is wrong, I don't want to be right" kind of way).

Dec 27, 2013 14:40:27 GMT -5 ratetankmark said:

Dec 27, 2013 14:35:41 GMT -5 Koda, Master Crunchyroller said:

Exactly. Jason and Michael shouldn't speak, they are walking forces of death. Freddy? Like 50% of his gimmick is his banter. It also makes sense, as he's more of a psychological evil, then a brute force death dealer.

I understand that with Voorhees because I don't think he can speak, but Myers was a young man in the first film and we see that he's a real human being behind the mask (the fact that he looks so normal is scarier than if he looked like a monster) so I just thought it was that Myers could speak he just didn't want to, but if Freddy can speak and still be scary, in theory so could Myers.

Here's the thing though: Krueger's murders have a personal motivation, he's seeking revenge on the kids' families for burning him alive, and it is necessary for him to speak at least a little not only to show how perverted he is as he obviously enjoys what he's doing, but also to drive home the fact that the hatred is personal. Again, something similar happens with Candyman or the Cenobites. Candyman is after one specific woman and all his other kills are only a mean to get to her, but what makes him original is that he's not trying to force her to join him, he's trying to seduce her into doing so of her own free will, and therefore Candyman MUST speak as in a disturbing way, the murders he commits are almost like dates with his chosen victim. The Cenobites (who - to be fair - it could be argued are not the villains in their franchise) are similar as they only want to take people who are willing to join them (or at least people they believe want to), they are like a jury judging whether or not someone should be made one of them so again, it is very personal and it is necessary that they have dialogue with their victims to show the intimacy between them.

Michael Myers (as well as Jason Voorhees) on the other hand is completely broken, he's like a cat who kills mice out of instinct but doesn't know why it's doing it (the scene in the first movie where Michael stares at the guy he stabbed and stuck to the wall actually looks very familiar if you've ever seen a cat look in confusion at a prey it just killed). Maybe he used to speak before when he was still a normal child, but the opening scene is the point when something breaks in him and he stops being the person he was before. The fear in this kind of killers come from the fact that they have lost their humanity, and more than death, what really scares people is losing what makes them human (hence why mannequins are often so creepy: they look vaguely human but have none of the sentience). On top of that, since they're acting on instinct, they have no motivation and are not going to stop as long as they can find victims, so you can't reassure yourself by thinking you'll be safe once they reach their goal since, well, they have no goal. The most extreme example of that is zombies as they are literally humans reduced to instinctive impulses. To put that in perspective with the examples above, the killers talking shows that they have motivations and an endgame.

So basically it depends on whether you want to make your audience afraid of a beast or a schemer.

[Brood Lone Wolf Funker]

It all really depends like others said, you have guys like Ghost Face, Jigsaw, Chuckie, Freddy, and Leslie Vernon talking and banter are main parts of their character and their motivation, while you have guys like Leatherface, Jason, Michael Myers who work better silent because they usually have always been silent

[Capt Lunatic]

I'm gonna tie this into wrestling...Kane was much better before he started speaking.

[Doctor Of Style]

Only if they have the mic skills to pull it off.

[SOR]

I've done a few Horror Short Films and honestly I think Horror needs dialogue. If you have a generic big man killing annoying people you're going to root for him instead of being against him.

Your job as a director/writer is to get your villain over as being this disgusting human being and ultimately get the emotion out of people where they want to see this guy go down. 9 times out of 10 this has to involve dialogue unless you do a film where a generic big man murders family pets or children or something. Generic big man going on murdering spree doesn't do well anymore.

Also, movies where the big guy just kills people for no reason are terrible. Writers really need to build up to that.