Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 3:57:23 GMT -5
Honestly, almost everyone on the roster at this point in time is good in the ring, so unless someone's absolutely astounding in it (which Alberto isn't) then I don't consider, "Good wrestler," to be a suitable reason to push someone.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 4:20:19 GMT -5
Del Rio is the antithesis of Hulk Hogan. "Good" in the ring, no one cares. Hogan "sucked" in the ring, but everyone cared.
I'll take a Hogan match any day.
Sure, it has to do with booking/writing. But it also has to do with approach. Del Rio's matches are very mechanical. He works the arm to set up his finish, throughout the match we'll see some kicks/a backstabber/an enzugiri, a shit load of near falls no one buys, and all the moves/counters should, in theory, add up to a good match. In the end, there's something missing. It's WWE so everyone works a pretty formulaic style to an extent, but there's a certain joylessness to an Alberto Del Rio match. It's like the guy is even boring himself in there.
|
|
|
Post by Raskovnik on Dec 29, 2013 4:57:12 GMT -5
I think he's a phenomenal in-ring talent and one of the best the WWE's ever had. He just needs a different gimmick. His face feud with Big Show was fantastic and he showed a real babyface fire to him, not to mention the matches were pretty awesome. I know he gets shit on a lot but the dude is talented.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,038
|
Post by Mozenrath on Dec 29, 2013 5:00:40 GMT -5
He has a lot of talent, but I hate how he is booked. That is really the main problem he has, for me.
|
|
Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,509
|
Post by Bo Rida on Dec 29, 2013 6:41:19 GMT -5
He is capable of putting on good matches so I suppose so. Nothing more than that though, not great, brilliant, excellent or any other superlative just plain good.
He often seems to do things that just take me out of the match, most notably his trademark flying nothing where he jumps off the top rope and lands on his feet without so much as a token attempt at an axe-handle. When something like that does happen he seems completely lost which again makes it hard to invest in his matches, a truly great wrestler can cover for botches or do something to get the crowd back on side but he just acts like a rabbit trapped in the headlights.
Too often he seems like somebody robotically going through the motions with no spontaneity at all, it's noticeable that my favourite moments of his is when he broke from that formula (the Christmas street-fight, heeling it up on Dolph's concussion). I think too many of his matches are the same but maybe that's an unfair criticism as it could be applied to most wrestlers, maybe the difference is somebody like Hogan had his basic formula down to a fine art.
Much the same could be said about that thing he does where he dives feet first through the ropes after missing an opponent, in kayfabe why does he keep doing it? However again he's hardly the first to do something like that.
However like others aid it doesn't matter how good he is technically if you can't get people to invest in his matches.
|
|
|
Post by JTG Fan on Dec 29, 2013 6:48:20 GMT -5
He often seems to do things that just take me out of the match, most notably his trademark flying nothing where he jumps off the top rope and lands on his feet without so much as a token attempt at an axe-handle.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 7:33:00 GMT -5
If you thought that he was good before, just wait until Hunico starts playing him. I think any time someone isn't over they should be replaced by Hunico, until he's playing half the roles on the show and often wrestling himself
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Dec 29, 2013 7:40:49 GMT -5
You can't be good and consistently have matches nobody cares about. It's like claiming to be the world's best promoter who can't draw his own mother to a flea market. It's just an insurmountable contradiction between the claim and reality. physical talent has nothing to do with the ability to make people interested in you
|
|
Chip
Hank Scorpio
Slam Jam Death.
Posts: 5,185
|
Post by Chip on Dec 29, 2013 7:44:43 GMT -5
If you could pick one match to convert a Del Rio skeptic, what would it be? Probably his match against Ziggler at Payback. That match perfectly executed what it set out to do and got a real reaction from me, I was so damn angry and disappointed by the end. For like a week I looked at Del Rio with real heat but then they didn't do anything with it and I stopped caring.
|
|
|
Post by Raskovnik on Dec 29, 2013 8:09:49 GMT -5
If you could pick one match to convert a Del Rio skeptic, what would it be? vs Christian at Summerslam.
|
|
The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,281
Member is Online
|
Post by The Ichi on Dec 29, 2013 8:12:25 GMT -5
He fits all the objective, measurable criteria that smarks use to rate a guy as "good" at putting on a pro wrestling match. And yet, after three and a half years of being treated like a big deal and getting extended feuds against the other top names in the company, how many really exemplary, standout matches does Del Rio have to his name? The closest I can think of to one is the Last Man Standing against Cena at Vengeance 2011, and Cena's had matches just as good against guys who aren't considered particularly capable in-ring performers. All of his matches vs. The Big Show during his face run were good. Del Rio is a master of working the babyface style, it's just a shame he has to be a heel by default because he can't get any reaction.
|
|
|
Post by Sumbody Gon' Get Dey Kneelift on Dec 29, 2013 8:22:13 GMT -5
I want him to get the Kane mask and become the new Kane.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 9:18:37 GMT -5
His character (or lack of a solidified one) confuses me to the point where his matches suffer because of it. He's not bad at all. That armbreaker just sticks out like a Sin Cara index finger. Does not mesh with his style at all.
|
|
|
Post by crowwreak was WRONG on Dec 29, 2013 9:25:43 GMT -5
He's an unprofessional dick, especially when he's against Misti-Cara
|
|
|
Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 29, 2013 9:54:06 GMT -5
he is good in the ri9ng. but so are Cena, Punk, Bryan, Orton, Sheamus and tonnes of other guys who are still more interesting to watch than he is. being good in the ring isn't enough to get over, otherwise Curtis Axel would be one of the more popular guys on the roster.
|
|
543Y2J
Patti Mayonnaise
Seventh level .gif Master
Posts: 38,794
|
Post by 543Y2J on Dec 29, 2013 10:18:43 GMT -5
I would argue he isn't. I know, me showing dislike towards Del Rio is a original viewpoint , but I seriously don't feel he even has that as a positive attribute. He cannot create an interesting match on his own, he relies too heavily on his limited moveset (enziguri especially) and despite him being a "main eventer" he is unable to be the one directing the match. All the interesting/good/great matches he has had that I have enjoyed has been due to the other workers supporting him and creating different arcs within the match. Punk, Christian, Bryan, Ziggler, Cena all pushed him to create little changes in the match, with interesting reversals and counters one of the many elements I feel is needed for a main eventer and to constantly remain on top. Punk and Christian especially are known for this and that's why I view their ring work so highly because they change the story over not only one match, but over multiple matches adding to the psychology. I love ADR vs Punk from Survivor Series but I feel that is due to Punk coming up with interesting reversals and an intense finishing sequence. I love ADR vs Christian WHC Ladder Match but I feel that was due to Christian coming up with original spots in the match (when he was in control), his selling and his passion he was highlighting in facial expressions/body language to get his first WHC. Indeed, it does take two to tango, but to me ADR is the immobile crash test dummy to his partners world champion tango skills. Of course you can view these both as biased opinions if you choose because I am know to be a mark for both men (especially Christian) but ADR not only lacks this but fails to construct anything interesting for just a simple jobber match, not even a main event match. Jobber matches should be fun and entertaining as countless have proven in the past that they can be, I may not be Rybacks biggest fan but he at least did something different/visually appealing in each and every one of his jobber matches during his initial push. Same with Henry, Goldberg and countless others who have been fed jobbers in the past. It's just the same thing over and over, and if he isn't across the ring from a well known workhorse the match will lack any construct or foundation because he is the one that is leading it. An ADR match to me is the same as an ADR promo to me, I am just staring into a deep dark and empty void with no real feeling.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 10:21:00 GMT -5
You can't be good in the ring if you are "boring".
The whole purpose of this product is to entertain, "boring" and "entertaining" sre too different things that you can't be at the same time.
Alberto is boring, he is not entertaining meaning he is not good at what he does.
|
|
Lupin the Third
Patti Mayonnaise
I'm sorry.....I love you. *boot to the head*--3rd most culpable in the jixing of NXT, D'oh!
Join the Dark Order....
Posts: 36,316
|
Post by Lupin the Third on Dec 29, 2013 10:37:21 GMT -5
Maybe it's time for the return of his better alter ego. Say he needs to go back to Mexico for some soul searching, and a month or two later, BAM! The debut of Dos Caras Jr. And when that gets old, MMA Dos Caras Jr.
|
|
|
Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Dec 29, 2013 10:57:50 GMT -5
You can't be good and consistently have matches nobody cares about. It's like claiming to be the world's best promoter who can't draw his own mother to a flea market. It's just an insurmountable contradiction between the claim and reality. physical talent has nothing to do with the ability to make people interested in you Nailed it. There have been people over the years from Warrior, Khali, Kelly Kelly, Brodus Clay, etc, that have all stunk in the ring, but the crowds loved them a ton. Then you have guys like Dean Malenko and Del Rio himself, who are pretty good wrestlers, but the crowd couldn't have cared less about either guy. It takes more that knowing a wristlock from a wrist watch to connect with the crowd and make them cheer/boo you.
|
|
BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
|
Post by BigWill on Dec 29, 2013 11:10:14 GMT -5
he is good in the ri9ng. but so are Cena, Punk, Bryan, Orton, Sheamus and tonnes of other guys who are still more interesting to watch than he is. being good in the ring isn't enough to get over, otherwise Curtis Axel would be one of the more popular guys on the roster. Curtis Axel is mediocre in the ring at best. He hasn't had a single match that's interested me in his entire career.
|
|