How did Vince turn face in 2001?

[Sparvid]

Reading about the Trish barking segment in another thread reminded me that I'd been wondering about this.

Going into Wrestlemania 17, Vince was an absolute monster who made out with Trish right in front of his semi-comatose wife. Shane bought WCW and said that he'd use it to kick Vince's ass. Then fast forward a couple of months and Shane is the invader while Vince is the good guy.

I can sort of understand Shane becoming a heel by saying that "Since I can't get any TV time of my own, I'll interfer in WWF (and thereby screwing things up for the fans who came to see WWF)", but how did Vince manage to get sympathy from the crowd after all he had done, especially since he was feuding with the same person as earlier (instead of "Yeah, Shane is being a bad sport, but it's against Vince, so who can blame him)?

[Mozenrath]

Since for his faults, Vince is sort of the living incarnation of WWF/WWE, and the audience favored it over the deceased WCW, so he was pretty much the de facto face of the InVasion.

[Cry Me a Wiggle]

Thing is, WWF fans WERE excited to see WCW invade. WCW got monster pops the first few times it happened. It was only when it dawned on everyone that most of the names were staying home that WWF fans rejected the concept. Even then, Vince was only barely a face. He turned heel immediately after Survivor Series.

[modestgenius]

He's Vince McMahon godamnit.

[fw91]

they portrayed all the wcw guys as heels

[Boo!]

Dec 30, 2013 1:21:41 GMT -5 Cry Me a Wiggle said:

Thing is, WWF fans WERE excited to see WCW invade. WCW got monster pops the first few times it happened. It was only when it dawned on everyone that most of the names were staying home that WWF fans rejected the concept. Even then, Vince was only barely a face. He turned heel immediately after Survivor Series.

No it didn't the first WCW match on Raw got booed the hell out of.

[Brainbustaaah!]

Dec 30, 2013 2:28:37 GMT -5 Boo! said:

Dec 30, 2013 1:21:41 GMT -5 Cry Me a Wiggle said:

Thing is, WWF fans WERE excited to see WCW invade. WCW got monster pops the first few times it happened. It was only when it dawned on everyone that most of the names were staying home that WWF fans rejected the concept. Even then, Vince was only barely a face. He turned heel immediately after Survivor Series.

No it didn't the first WCW match on Raw got booed the hell out of.

Because it was Booker T vs. Buff Bagwell. Even the Bookerman can't salvage that.

[wildojinx]

Dec 30, 2013 1:28:39 GMT -5 fw91 said:

they portrayed all the wcw guys as heels

RVD got lots of babyface pops and i dont remember him doing anything "heelish".

[Bang Bang Bart]

Dec 30, 2013 8:43:03 GMT -5 wildojinx said:

Dec 30, 2013 1:28:39 GMT -5 fw91 said:

they portrayed all the wcw guys as heels

RVD got lots of babyface pops and i dont remember him doing anything "heelish".

He was pretty much the only exception. The other WCW wrestlers were depicted as the bad guys, though.

[TGM]

Dec 30, 2013 8:50:34 GMT -5 Bang Bang Bart said:

Dec 30, 2013 8:43:03 GMT -5 wildojinx said:

RVD got lots of babyface pops and i dont remember him doing anything "heelish".

He was pretty much the only exception. The other WCW wrestlers were depicted as the bad guys, though.

he was the heel in his first match but got himself over pretty quickly due to his style.

[Aceorton]

They painted it as the WWF fighting for its survival against the invading ECWCW forces, which meant that until that threat was vanquished, it didn't matter what monstrous things Vince had done. Everyone in the WWF locker room, enemies or not, was supposedly united against the bigger threat. The WWF's Survivor Series team was Rock, Jericho, Big Show, Undertaker and Kane, who had all feuded intensely with each other at one point, more or less. Rock and Jericho were feuding at the time, but the "greater good" was defending the WWF, so they were all babyfaces to that degree.

It's like the Dukes of Hazzard. Vince is Boss Hogg. Normally Boss Hogg is the biggest POS in Hazzard County. But when some outside menace would show up and threaten everyone, suddenly Boss and the Duke boys were working together until the threat was eliminated. Then things could go back to Boss being a despicable POS again.

[Blindkarevik]

Just remember, no matter what... wrestling doesn't need believable character arcs or periods of reclamation to get someone's allegiance to change.

All you have to do is say, "Hey, Heel, I dislike you when I had previously liked you.... also, I don't mind the fans as much as I once had."

Instant face turn.

[Deleted]

Dec 30, 2013 2:46:40 GMT -5 Brainbustaaah! said:

Dec 30, 2013 2:28:37 GMT -5 Boo! said:

No it didn't the first WCW match on Raw got booed the hell out of.

Because it was Booker T vs. Buff Bagwell. Even the Bookerman can't salvage that.

Could you blame them? Had they brought in even half of WCW's big names (Scott Steiner, Sting, Ric Flair), the crowd reception would've loved it. Because BUFF BAGWELL was the focal point, they dumped on it. Also didn't help that, by September, the "Alliance" members that got the most press in terms of intimidation were WWF stars (Austin, Kurt Angle, Christian).

[BrianZane]

Dec 30, 2013 2:28:37 GMT -5 Boo! said:

Dec 30, 2013 1:21:41 GMT -5 Cry Me a Wiggle said:

Thing is, WWF fans WERE excited to see WCW invade. WCW got monster pops the first few times it happened. It was only when it dawned on everyone that most of the names were staying home that WWF fans rejected the concept. Even then, Vince was only barely a face. He turned heel immediately after Survivor Series.

No it didn't the first WCW match on Raw got booed the hell out of.

Those random run-ins by guys like Lance Storm, Hugh Morrus and Booker T actually did get huge pops (only time you'll ever see "Hugh Morrus" and "pop" in the same sentence), but yeah, that first official WCW match was crapped on heartily for a number of reasons: One, the match was crap anyway; Two, I've been told that no good wrestling moments have ever come out of Tacoma, WA; and Three, fans were conditioned for years to believe that WCW wrestlers sucked, so it makes sense that people would not enjoy watching WCW guys in a WWF ring.

[MichaelMartini]

Dec 30, 2013 11:47:55 GMT -5 @jdogindy said:

Dec 30, 2013 2:46:40 GMT -5 Brainbustaaah! said:

Because it was Booker T vs. Buff Bagwell. Even the Bookerman can't salvage that.

Could you blame them? Had they brought in even half of WCW's big names (Scott Steiner, Sting, Ric Flair), the crowd reception would've loved it. Because BUFF BAGWELL was the focal point, they dumped on it. Also didn't help that, by September, the "Alliance" members that got the most press in terms of intimidation were WWF stars (Austin, Kurt Angle, Christian).

It was the main event too, wasn't it? I like Booker and Buff but I would've booed too if I paid for a Raw ticket. They really should've split those guys up and had them face WWF guys.

[What?]

once Paul Heyman and Stephanie McMahon were introduced as co-leaders with Shane o Mac, Vince pretty much became the de facto face. Add in that people other than stone cold and Kurt Angle were being attacked. After King of the Ring 2001, WWF faces were now being assaulted. There's a lot of changes that happened and it got really messy really fast between June and July that year. I still can't believe that was only 1 month of programming. And that's not necessarily a good thing. No pun intended on the smiling DDP gimmick lol

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Dec 30, 2013 2:28:37 GMT -5 Boo! said:

Dec 30, 2013 1:21:41 GMT -5 Cry Me a Wiggle said:

Thing is, WWF fans WERE excited to see WCW invade. WCW got monster pops the first few times it happened. It was only when it dawned on everyone that most of the names were staying home that WWF fans rejected the concept. Even then, Vince was only barely a face. He turned heel immediately after Survivor Series.

No it didn't the first WCW match on Raw got booed the hell out of.

The first few WCW runins got huge pops, and DDP's debut was monumental. That MATCH got booed, but that was far from the first WCW item on WWF telly.

[schma]

The whole invasion angle had so much freaking potential. I think in all the years I've watched wrestling nothing has really disappointed me so much as the invasion. They crapped on the potential from day one. I found whiny Austin as leader of the alliance annoying as hell and the great wcw vs wwe match only had two guys that weren't wwe. 2/10 for the great showdown of the companies. Really?

But yeah, Booker vs Buff for the first match was a batch of fail. So was trying to do an invasion storyline when you kept 90% of the WCW's biggest names at home and buried the ones you actually brought in.

[kingoftheindies]

Dec 30, 2013 13:54:30 GMT -5 BrianZane said:

Dec 30, 2013 2:28:37 GMT -5 Boo! said:

No it didn't the first WCW match on Raw got booed the hell out of.

Those random run-ins by guys like Lance Storm, Hugh Morrus and Booker T actually did get huge pops (only time you'll ever see "Hugh Morrus" and "pop" in the same sentence), but yeah, that first official WCW match was crapped on heartily for a number of reasons: One, the match was crap anyway; Two, I've been told that no good wrestling moments have ever come out of Tacoma, WA; and Three, fans were conditioned for years to believe that WCW wrestlers sucked, so it makes sense that people would not enjoy watching WCW guys in a WWF ring.

There was the issue that WCW had never been to Tacoma either and markets are usually very loyal to those who go to them. The 2nd WCW match (Kidman vs Helms) was in Atlanta and both guys got huge pops especially Kidman and Vince reportedly had no idea how or why anybody would love Kidman that much

But Chris Jericho and Lance Storm like to tell the story about how before the first official match, Buff and Booker were having awful matches on the house shows that were getting crapped on (and Buff had huge heat with everybody) so they switched it up to Lance Storm vs Booker and the matches were both good and well received by crowds. The wrestlers and agents told Vince to go with Lance vs Booker but creative decided with Buff because they thought he was a bigger WCW name. After the match sucked Vince was done with the serious WCW stuff.

Oh and Vince never really turned. After he reinstated The Rock he disappeared until October when he started courting RVD to jump to the WWF, and then started teasing a mole in the Alliance