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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 19:06:28 GMT -5
That's the thing though. They're not stopping people from smoking. They're just telling people they shouldn't because it's hazardous to their health. There's nothing wrong with that. All people have to do is ignore the commercials. Ignore the posters. It's not that hard. And believe it or not, there will always be some people out there who don't know how bad smoking is for them. And I guarantee there's a lot of people who quit smoking each year due to those advertisements. They deserve to have that information and deserve to be told how they can get help if they CHOOSE to quit. Taking away that information would be just as bad as banning smoking. It's not that you can "just ignore it" because all they do is step up their game. It's like an annoying toddler who wants something, and will scream for hours and hours until they get their way. Then you get those "Truth" demonstrations, where people lay down in plazas or disrupt your everyday life. You want to rally? Don't do it where it's going to bother other people. I lived in a college town and they had one of those "lay down" Truth things and they made it as inconvenient for people to walk through there, as possible. f*** those people. And people don't know how dangerous smoking is? Do they read the f***ing package they bought them in? If they are too naive to trust the cigarettes themselves saying they're dangerous, why should they trust the ad that hates smoking? Fear, hate-mongering and guilt being used as a means to get your point across is never going to win me over, no matter how right they are. Except you can just ignore it. I see healthy eating stuff all the time, that's not going to stop me from chowing down on a double cheeseburger when I want. Even if you stopped smoking (if you were a smoker), do you honestly think anti-smoking advertisements would just disappear? Hell no. They'll never go away. You'd have to be pretty weak minded to be pressured into doing something just because a commercial told you to. As for the "keep your anti-smoking stuff away from me" point, isn't that the same complaints I just aired about smoking? Some of your views are coming off as massively hypocritical here.
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Post by Orange on Jan 5, 2014 19:06:33 GMT -5
It's easy enough to avoid commercials and posters, but what about the graphic pictures they put on the physical product in other countries? I'm spoiling these because they're pretty rough, {Spoiler} That's pretty damn hard to avoid, and it's incredibly ridiculous as well. Could you imagine if they put stickers of dead people on the hoods of cars when you went to look at cars, or pictures of diseased obese people on McDonald's wrappers? People would flip out, but somehow everybody's cool with putting stuff like that on cigarette packs. It's a little harsh but who cares? Again, they're not stopping anyone from smoking. You'll either see that picture, shrug, and smoke up. Or you'll go "Geez, I don't want that to happen to me!" and you'll quit. I just don't believe that, as an adult making the choice to smoke as one would be in this situation, you shouldn't have images like that shoved in your face. As I said, it'd be akin to posting pictures of dead people on cars because of what could happen if something goes wrong while driving a car. Hell, I don't even see those types of pictures on alcohol, but drinking=good and smoking=bad within our society. I just don't agree with putting images as graphic as those on packages, or like some groups want to do and make all cigarette packs a plain black box with white text so as to prevent any advertising at all. As I said earlier this stuff doesn't pertain to me as I don't smoke cigarettes, nor have I ever, but I just don't get why it's acceptable to do these types of things to cigarettes (and this is not me sticking up for Phillip Morris or anything - large cigarette corporations and groups are evil and have done terrible things to the name of tobacco with their "tobacco products") but not other potentially dangerous stuff like fast food and driving.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 19:12:01 GMT -5
It's a little harsh but who cares? Again, they're not stopping anyone from smoking. You'll either see that picture, shrug, and smoke up. Or you'll go "Geez, I don't want that to happen to me!" and you'll quit. I just don't believe that, as an adult making the choice to smoke as one would be in this situation, you shouldn't have images like that shoved in your face. As I said, it'd be akin to posting pictures of dead people on cars because of what could happen if something goes wrong while driving a car. Hell, I don't even see those types of pictures on alcohol, but drinking=good and smoking=bad within our society. I just don't agree with putting images as graphic as those on packages, or like some groups want to do and make all cigarette packs a plain black box with white text so as to prevent any advertising at all. As I said earlier this stuff doesn't pertain to me as I don't smoke cigarettes, nor have I ever, but I just don't get why it's acceptable to do these types of things to cigarettes (and this is not me sticking up for Phillip Morris or anything - large cigarette corporations and groups are evil and have done terrible things to the name of tobacco with their "tobacco products") but not other potentially dangerous stuff like fast food and driving. Except that it's likely you'll develop some tobacco-related illness if you smoke long enough. I don't think you can say that about driving. Also driving is under your control. You can't control if you'll get emphysema or cancer. Drinking and smoking are two different ball-games. I could drink a glass of wine a day and wouldn't develop liver disease related to my drinking. If I just smoke one cigarette a day I'd still be doing damage to my body. Same with fast food. If I eat a burger as part of a well balanced diet and I exercise, I'll be fine. Smoking a cigarette, even just one, will cause some kind of damage. Even if it's very minor. The tar will get stuck to your lungs. The harmful chemicals will enter your body. You can't say that about those other things.
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Post by Bootista on Jan 5, 2014 19:13:57 GMT -5
RVC, Why Tell People what they can or cannot do, its their right. If they want to Smoke, let them.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Jan 5, 2014 19:15:35 GMT -5
Except you can just ignore it. I see healthy eating stuff all the time, that's not going to stop me from chowing down on a double cheeseburger when I want. Even if you stopped smoking (if you were a smoker), do you honestly think anti-smoking advertisements would just disappear? Hell no. They'll never go away. You'd have to be pretty weak minded to be pressured into doing something just because a commercial told you to. As for the "keep your anti-smoking stuff away from me" point, isn't that the same complaints I just aired about smoking? Some of your views are coming off as massively hypocritical here. No, they're not going to go away, the same way smokers will likely never go away, even if they were to pass an amendment banning it. Just because I CAN ignore something, doesn't mean I'm going to roll over for it. I don't like their tactics, simply put. No, it's only hypocritical if you don't have some advocacy group fighting against those as well. Oh wait....they don't! They're just allowed to do whatever they want! If I were to have a pro-smoking rally, I can guarentee it's going to be met with criticism or even picketing, so why don't these Truth rallies get that treatment? That's the hypocrisy.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 19:16:06 GMT -5
RVC, Why Tell People what they can or cannot do, its their right. If they want to Smoke, let them. Umm....who's stopping them?
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Post by Orange on Jan 5, 2014 19:18:07 GMT -5
I just don't believe that, as an adult making the choice to smoke as one would be in this situation, you shouldn't have images like that shoved in your face. As I said, it'd be akin to posting pictures of dead people on cars because of what could happen if something goes wrong while driving a car. Hell, I don't even see those types of pictures on alcohol, but drinking=good and smoking=bad within our society. I just don't agree with putting images as graphic as those on packages, or like some groups want to do and make all cigarette packs a plain black box with white text so as to prevent any advertising at all. As I said earlier this stuff doesn't pertain to me as I don't smoke cigarettes, nor have I ever, but I just don't get why it's acceptable to do these types of things to cigarettes (and this is not me sticking up for Phillip Morris or anything - large cigarette corporations and groups are evil and have done terrible things to the name of tobacco with their "tobacco products") but not other potentially dangerous stuff like fast food and driving. Except that it's likely you'll develop some tobacco-related illness if you smoke long enough. I don't think you can say that about driving. Also driving is under your control. You can't control if you'll get emphysema or cancer. Drinking and smoking are two different ball-games. I could drink a glass of wine a day and wouldn't develop liver disease related to my drinking. If I just smoke one cigarette a day I'd still be doing damage to my body. Same with fast food. If I eat a burger as part of a well balanced diet and I exercise, I'll be fine. Smoking a cigarette, even just one, will cause some kind of damage. Even if it's very minor. The tar will get stuck to your lungs. The harmful chemicals will enter your body. You can't say that about those other things. If you drink a glass of alcohol every day, it's very likely you could end up doing some damage; Acid Reflux being one of the possible negative side effects of a drink every day. Obviously, just because you have a drink every day that doesn't mean you'll get acid reflux, but there are negative health risks associated with everything we can humanely do; and, while some of those risks might not be as serious as some of the risks associated with cigarette smoking, that doesn't mean there's anything out there without health risks. I just don't see the need in spending billions of dollars in TV ads and radio campaigns to tell smokers how bad smoking is. Just like telling a fat guy he's fat, they know.
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mizerable
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You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Jan 5, 2014 19:20:43 GMT -5
Except that it's likely you'll develop some tobacco-related illness if you smoke long enough. I don't think you can say that about driving. Also driving is under your control. You can't control if you'll get emphysema or cancer. Drinking and smoking are two different ball-games. I could drink a glass of wine a day and wouldn't develop liver disease related to my drinking. If I just smoke one cigarette a day I'd still be doing damage to my body. Same with fast food. If I eat a burger as part of a well balanced diet and I exercise, I'll be fine. Smoking a cigarette, even just one, will cause some kind of damage. Even if it's very minor. The tar will get stuck to your lungs. The harmful chemicals will enter your body. You can't say that about those other things. Driving isn't always under your control. You can't control the weather, you can't control the manufacturer's errors and you can't control the drivers around you. Saying that it does damage no matter what, is essentially a moot point, because essentially everything that humans do does damage in one way or another. Why are some bad things condoned, and others aren't? Oh I know why, because smoking smells. And a bunch of people (including myself) hate smelling like smoke. Again, putting restrictions on where you can and cannot smoke should be the ONLY thing these anti-smoking people should be advocating for.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm on Jan 5, 2014 19:21:09 GMT -5
I know it's their right to smoke and all that jazz, but I worry about my little brother. He's recently taken up smoking as a stress reliever and he smokes like every day(I don't know how many times a day he does it, but he's always leaving cigarette butts on patio and his car reeks of smokes). He's not even 23 yet and I really don't want him catching lung cancer before turning 25. It just worries me...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 19:22:52 GMT -5
To be fair you become desensitised to those images. they're there but when you see them every few hours they have little to no impact at all. So what? Does that mean that the Truth people need to up their game and have more extreme advertising? How soon before they start showing commercials where people are getting tumors removed without any censoring of any kind? Will people "wake up" then? You're always going to have people that are going to defy what the world tells them is right. Whether it's not smoking, not drinking, healthy eating, safe sex, wearing a seatbelt, and so forth. No amount of guilt tripping propaganda is going to change these people. I mean the pictures on the cigarette and tobacco pouches. We have them on the UK and you see the picture of the f***ed up lung so much when your smoking on the packet that you become used to it being there and it doesn't have any impact at all. Basically the pictures on the packs don't work.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 19:23:01 GMT -5
Except you can just ignore it. I see healthy eating stuff all the time, that's not going to stop me from chowing down on a double cheeseburger when I want. Even if you stopped smoking (if you were a smoker), do you honestly think anti-smoking advertisements would just disappear? Hell no. They'll never go away. You'd have to be pretty weak minded to be pressured into doing something just because a commercial told you to. As for the "keep your anti-smoking stuff away from me" point, isn't that the same complaints I just aired about smoking? Some of your views are coming off as massively hypocritical here. No, they're not going to go away, the same way smokers will likely never go away, even if they were to pass an amendment banning it. Just because I CAN ignore something, doesn't mean I'm going to roll over for it. I don't like their tactics, simply put. No, it's only hypocritical if you don't have some advocacy group fighting against those as well. Oh wait....they don't! They're just allowed to do whatever they want! If I were to have a pro-smoking rally, I can guarentee it's going to be met with criticism or even picketing, so why don't these Truth rallies get that treatment? That's the hypocrisy. Okay, you don't like their tactics. I don't like smoking. That doesn't mean either should be banned. You seem to want one banned but not the other, which is what I find hypocritical. Like I said believe it or not, those commercials do make people think about quitting. They also give people information they might not be able to get elsewhere. Take my brother for example. He smokes. He doesn't buy cigarettes though, he gets them from my Mom. If he also didn't have the Internet, how would he get information about the damage smoking causes or how to quit? Yes, an pro-smoking rally would be met with criticism. Kind of like the criticism you're giving to anti-smoking rallies. I don't believe anyone is stopping you from holding a pro-smoking rally if that's what you wanted to do. Again, it's hypocritical for you to be okay with criticism for one but not for the other.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 19:26:08 GMT -5
Except that it's likely you'll develop some tobacco-related illness if you smoke long enough. I don't think you can say that about driving. Also driving is under your control. You can't control if you'll get emphysema or cancer. Drinking and smoking are two different ball-games. I could drink a glass of wine a day and wouldn't develop liver disease related to my drinking. If I just smoke one cigarette a day I'd still be doing damage to my body. Same with fast food. If I eat a burger as part of a well balanced diet and I exercise, I'll be fine. Smoking a cigarette, even just one, will cause some kind of damage. Even if it's very minor. The tar will get stuck to your lungs. The harmful chemicals will enter your body. You can't say that about those other things. If you drink a glass of alcohol every day, it's very likely you could end up doing some damage; Acid Reflux being one of the possible negative side effects of a drink every day. Obviously, just because you have a drink every day that doesn't mean you'll get acid reflux, but there are negative health risks associated with everything we can humanely do; and, while some of those risks might not be as serious as some of the risks associated with cigarette smoking, that doesn't mean there's anything out there without health risks. I just don't see the need in spending billions of dollars in TV ads and radio campaigns to tell smokers how bad smoking is. Just like telling a fat guy he's fat, they know. Acid reflux and lung cancer aren't comparable. They're just not. And again, just because you know about the risks doesn't mean everyone does. What about kids? A lot of them definitely won't know. Giving them that information or seeing the effects could stop people from taking up something that is going to significantly damage their health.
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Post by Orange on Jan 5, 2014 19:28:08 GMT -5
If you drink a glass of alcohol every day, it's very likely you could end up doing some damage; Acid Reflux being one of the possible negative side effects of a drink every day. Obviously, just because you have a drink every day that doesn't mean you'll get acid reflux, but there are negative health risks associated with everything we can humanely do; and, while some of those risks might not be as serious as some of the risks associated with cigarette smoking, that doesn't mean there's anything out there without health risks. I just don't see the need in spending billions of dollars in TV ads and radio campaigns to tell smokers how bad smoking is. Just like telling a fat guy he's fat, they know. Acid reflux and lung cancer aren't comparable. They're just not. And again, just because you know about the risks doesn't mean everyone does. What about kids? A lot of them definitely won't know. Giving them that information or seeing the effects could stop people from taking up something that is going to significantly damage their health. Oh, absolutely they're not; that's why I said they weren't in my post. My original point stands, though, in that everything carries negative risks. Eating fast food could lead to heart disease. Does that mean that Burger King should be forced to put disgusting surgery images on fry boxes? If kids don't know the risks of smoking, the parents need to teach them. It's not up to Phillip Morris to tell kids that smoking is bad.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 19:31:00 GMT -5
As someone who quit about 2 years ago and is now on and off with smoking (I get back in to the habit for a few weeks, longest -relapse so far was 2 months) the best way to control cravings I can honestly recommend is one of those electronic cigarrettes. I don't mean get one and use it as much as you'd smoke. I mean get one and use it only during the most drastic cravings, eventually you will find yourself resorting to it less and less. I probably get to the point where I need it like once a week at the most now, and even then it's like 3 tokes on it. Of course it's different strokes for different folks. But this is how I quit. Going cold turkey didn't work at all for me. Each time I've relapsed and stopped smoking again It's still pretty bad the first few days but it seems to get easier each time Also I think banning smoking in Pubs and Clubs is ridiculous, the smoke used to mask up the horrible odours. What helped me quit and this method is unconventional but I quit by smoking these bullseye mini cigars whenever I had a craving for a week. Then my cravings would get weaker and I would smoke less per day like challenging myself to smoke one five cigars today, then only four, then three, then only once in the morning. Until the day my cravings were pretty weak that I could quit cold turkey. So far it's been about a month and half and I barely get any cravings. I am getting cravings from this debate. I don't know why. But yeah I barely noticed the graphic warning pictures. Everyone I smoke with barely notices it or cares. We only notice if there is a new picture we haven't seen before and even then we don't care or grossed out by it. Seeing a oversized human heart for years then seeing the new gross image that is isn't as gross doesn't do the trick. If they want to make an effective anti smoking ad, talk about on how expensive they are and how much money we are spending every year and decade and lifetimes. Talk about how all that money we can save can get you a nice tropical family vacation or getting a better car or a better house. Something like that. I honestly decided to quit because of financial reasons. When you're a single male who works long hours every day, you don't really care about your health that much especially when you work labour/trade jobs.
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mizerable
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You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Jan 5, 2014 19:32:00 GMT -5
Okay, you don't like their tactics. I don't like smoking. That doesn't mean either should be banned. You seem to want one banned but not the other, which is what I find hypocritical. Like I said believe it or not, those commercials do make people think about quitting. They also give people information they might not be able to get elsewhere. Take my brother for example. He smokes. He doesn't buy cigarettes though, he gets them from my Mom. If he also didn't have the Internet, how would he get information about the damage smoking causes or how to quit? Yes, an pro-smoking rally would be met with criticism. Kind of like the criticism you're giving to anti-smoking rallies. I don't believe anyone is stopping you from holding a pro-smoking rally if that's what you wanted to do. Again, it's hypocritical for you to be okay with criticism for one but not for the other. I never said anything about their ads being banned. The measures they take to get their message off SHOULD be limited. But since we have a majority of society that seems to be okay with any measures so long as it goes along with their outlook, then they'll look the other way. Yet the cigarette companies were forced to remove a massive amount of their ads. Again, hypocrisy. Why is it okay for one group to do one thing, and the other side isn't even ALLOWED to respond with their own ads? How am I being hypocritical here? They're the ones not fighting fair. Regarding your brother, I would hope that he didn't live under a rock, consider most K-12 schools provide education regarding smoking/drinking/drugs/sex. Again, if he's at least 18...it's completely up to him to make that decision. If he isn't 18, shame on your mother. All I said about the anti-smoking rallies is that they intervened with MY life, that I was trying to live and made it VERY inconvenient for me to move across a plaza. What I literally mean is...I could not walk without the possibility of kicking someone or stepping on someone, so blocking a public place REALLY pisses me off. And it caused me to be late for work.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 19:32:31 GMT -5
Except that it's likely you'll develop some tobacco-related illness if you smoke long enough. I don't think you can say that about driving. Also driving is under your control. You can't control if you'll get emphysema or cancer. Drinking and smoking are two different ball-games. I could drink a glass of wine a day and wouldn't develop liver disease related to my drinking. If I just smoke one cigarette a day I'd still be doing damage to my body. Same with fast food. If I eat a burger as part of a well balanced diet and I exercise, I'll be fine. Smoking a cigarette, even just one, will cause some kind of damage. Even if it's very minor. The tar will get stuck to your lungs. The harmful chemicals will enter your body. You can't say that about those other things. Driving isn't always under your control. You can't control the weather, you can't control the manufacturer's errors and you can't control the drivers around you. Saying that it does damage no matter what, is essentially a moot point, because essentially everything that humans do does damage in one way or another. Why are some bad things condoned, and others aren't? Oh I know why, because smoking smells. And a bunch of people (including myself) hate smelling like smoke. Again, putting restrictions on where you can and cannot smoke should be the ONLY thing these anti-smoking people should be advocating for. "You can't control the weather" True but you can know which conditions you shouldn't be driving in. Manufacturing errors would be someone else's fault. I'm only talking about stuff that is only your responsibility. If you smoke and develop lung cancer, it's your own fault. You can't have safety tips for smoking. You can for driving. If you're a safe driver, the likelihood of you being killed on the road is very slim. And if you do, it'll probably be another driver's fault. "essentially everything that humans do does damage in one way or another".....not really. What damage would me eating a carrot do?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 19:36:38 GMT -5
Acid reflux and lung cancer aren't comparable. They're just not. And again, just because you know about the risks doesn't mean everyone does. What about kids? A lot of them definitely won't know. Giving them that information or seeing the effects could stop people from taking up something that is going to significantly damage their health. Oh, absolutely they're not; that's why I said they weren't in my post. My original point stands, though, in that everything carries negative risks. Eating fast food could lead to heart disease. Does that mean that Burger King should be forced to put disgusting surgery images on fry boxes? If kids don't know the risks of smoking, the parents need to teach them. It's not up to Phillip Morris to tell kids that smoking is bad. In moderation, Burger King doesn't carry any risks (well technically they do, like you could accidentally ingest mad cow disease from a bad beef batch or something like that). Smoking isn't a "risk", it WILL do damage. It's not an "if", it's a "how much". No matter how little of it you smoke, it will do damage. And yeah, parents should do that. But a lot of them won't. I don't remember my parents ever telling me about the dangers of smoking. My mother is a smoker. God knows what might have happened if I hadn't been smartened up elsewhere.
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mizerable
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You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Jan 5, 2014 19:39:39 GMT -5
["You can't control the weather" True but you can know which conditions you shouldn't be driving in. Manufacturing errors would be someone else's fault. I'm only talking about stuff that is only your responsibility. If you smoke and develop lung cancer, it's your own fault. You can't have safety tips for smoking. You can for driving. If you're a safe driver, the likelihood of you being killed on the road is very slim. And if you do, it'll probably be another driver's fault. "essentially everything that humans do does damage in one way or another".....not really. What damage would me eating a carrot do? Here's some safety tips; Smoke filtered cigs. Don't smoke down to the filter. Smoke in an open area. I could probably come up with a dozen or so more, or find some online...but again I'm not a smoker, so I don't care. The problem is, you can have a safety test that people must take in order to buy cigarettes and many of those people will still take liberties, the same way a lot of drivers do. And the dangers of eating a carrot? Well one carrot, much like one cigarette isn't going to hurt you, but an influx could lead to carotene poisoning or other forms of malnutrition.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 19:40:20 GMT -5
Okay, you don't like their tactics. I don't like smoking. That doesn't mean either should be banned. You seem to want one banned but not the other, which is what I find hypocritical. Like I said believe it or not, those commercials do make people think about quitting. They also give people information they might not be able to get elsewhere. Take my brother for example. He smokes. He doesn't buy cigarettes though, he gets them from my Mom. If he also didn't have the Internet, how would he get information about the damage smoking causes or how to quit? Yes, an pro-smoking rally would be met with criticism. Kind of like the criticism you're giving to anti-smoking rallies. I don't believe anyone is stopping you from holding a pro-smoking rally if that's what you wanted to do. Again, it's hypocritical for you to be okay with criticism for one but not for the other. I never said anything about their ads being banned. The measures they take to get their message off SHOULD be limited. But since we have a majority of society that seems to be okay with any measures so long as it goes along with their outlook, then they'll look the other way. Yet the cigarette companies were forced to remove a massive amount of their ads. Again, hypocrisy. Why is it okay for one group to do one thing, and the other side isn't even ALLOWED to respond with their own ads? How am I being hypocritical here? They're the ones not fighting fair. Regarding your brother, I would hope that he didn't live under a rock, consider most K-12 schools provide education regarding smoking/drinking/drugs/sex. Again, if he's at least 18...it's completely up to him to make that decision. If he isn't 18, shame on your mother. All I said about the anti-smoking rallies is that they intervened with MY life, that I was trying to live and made it VERY inconvenient for me to move across a plaza. What I literally mean is...I could not walk without the possibility of kicking someone or stepping on someone, so blocking a public place REALLY pisses me off. And it caused me to be late for work. As I said, it's not as black and white as saying "smoking = fast food = driving". It's not the same. Regardless, I do think some of the anti-smoking measures are harsh. Again though, no one is stopping you. No one is stopping me. If I want a pack of cigarettes, I can go to a shop and buy some. I just don't get why people get so worked up about stuff like this.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Jan 5, 2014 19:42:59 GMT -5
I wish tobacco and marijuana could swap places in terms of legality. Seems like the world would be a nicer place.
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