Professor Chaos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bringer of Destruction and Maker of Doom
Posts: 16,332
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Post by Professor Chaos on May 20, 2014 22:32:13 GMT -5
Watched Superbrawl 2001 today and thought it was good. Great 6 person cruiserweight opening, Rey-Chavo was good, great performance by DDP in two matches with Kanyon and Jarrett, Steiner-Nash was good storytelling as was the stuff with Kronik. Doesn't feel like a company that would be dead in a month at all. Gonna watch Greed next. That should be an interesting watch knowing what happens a week later.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on May 24, 2014 14:48:04 GMT -5
That is one of the depressing things about the later WCW shows, is they were really starting to get back on their feet. I really mark for the Magnificent Seven, and I think the proposed angle, according to Death of WCW, of slowly killing off all the babyfaces with that stable before bringing them all back for a big fight at Starrcade was genius.
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Post by cabbageboy on May 24, 2014 17:38:49 GMT -5
Call me crazy but I saw serious potential in Goldberg having to repeat the streak to get another title shot. I figure if they had kept the title on Steiner for a long time they could have had Goldberg run roughshod all over everyone for a solid year and then culminate it at Starrcade 2001.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on May 25, 2014 7:55:48 GMT -5
Call me crazy but I saw serious potential in Goldberg having to repeat the streak to get another title shot. I figure if they had kept the title on Steiner for a long time they could have had Goldberg run roughshod all over everyone for a solid year and then culminate it at Starrcade 2001. I actually loved this angle idea as well, but wasn't it dropped just like everything else?
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Post by cabbageboy on May 25, 2014 9:51:49 GMT -5
It would have taken forever for Goldberg to repeat 176-0, hence the dropping of it. He ended up losing a career match to Totally Buff I think, or at least Dwayne Bruce took the pin there. So yes, that was in fact Goldberg's last match in the company.
If I had to narrow down the failings of WCW, the single biggest one on the list would be their inability to simply put the world title back on Bill Goldberg. It's pretty amazing when you think about it.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on May 25, 2014 10:23:13 GMT -5
I've said it before but Goldberg having to rebuild the streak wasn't a bad idea. The problem was it was being done by Vince Russo who has no attention span and no patience for long term planning. He's the kind of guy who's gonna find every loophole and shortcut to puff up that streak at a ridiculous pace and kill any chance for the fans to take it seriously.
As for WCW's final days, yeah, WCW had finally realized the mistakes they made and were making great efforts to try to fix things. They just didn't have the time or the resources to get anywhere significant before Time Warner pulled the plug. This is interesting to compare to the final days of ECW, where they refused to acknowledge the massive problems they had simply because the first four rows of the ECW Arena would chant "ECW! ECW!" after every high spot.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,559
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Post by cjh on May 25, 2014 10:33:55 GMT -5
I've said it before but Goldberg having to rebuild the streak wasn't a bad idea. The problem was it was being done by Vince Russo who has no attention span and no patience for long term planning. He's the kind of guy who's gonna find every loophole and shortcut to puff up that streak at a ridiculous pace and kill any chance for the fans to take it seriously. Actually, Russo had little to do with that storyline. He started it on Nitro one week and went home for good after that show. The only time he was ever brought up again was at Mayhem in November when Mark Madden said during the Luger/Goldberg match that the stipulation put on Goldberg was still in play even though Russo was out of the picture.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on May 25, 2014 10:42:18 GMT -5
I've said it before but Goldberg having to rebuild the streak wasn't a bad idea. The problem was it was being done by Vince Russo who has no attention span and no patience for long term planning. He's the kind of guy who's gonna find every loophole and shortcut to puff up that streak at a ridiculous pace and kill any chance for the fans to take it seriously. Actually, Russo had little to do with that storyline. He started it on Nitro one week and went home for good after that show. The only time he was ever brought up again was at Mayhem in November when Mark Madden said during the Luger/Goldberg match that the stipulation put on Goldberg was still in play even though Russo was out of the picture. Russo was very much involved with the Kronik match at Halloween Havoc 2000 where the angle was very big part of.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,559
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Post by cjh on May 25, 2014 10:57:31 GMT -5
Actually, Russo had little to do with that storyline. He started it on Nitro one week and went home for good after that show. The only time he was ever brought up again was at Mayhem in November when Mark Madden said during the Luger/Goldberg match that the stipulation put on Goldberg was still in play even though Russo was out of the picture. Russo was very much involved with the Kronik match at Halloween Havoc 2000 where the angle was very big part of. The last time Russo showed up on TV was on the Oct. 2 Nitro where he put Goldberg in the angle. Halloween Havoc was on Oct. 29. His name may have been mentioned in the build-up, but he did not appear during the Goldberg/Kronik match. Russo did interfere in the Goldberg/Steiner match at Fall Brawl in September, but that was prior to the retirement/streak angle starting.
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Smasher1311
Mike the Goon
The New World Order of Wrestling, brother!
Posts: 40
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Post by Smasher1311 on May 30, 2014 18:48:35 GMT -5
Battlebowl 1993 for sure. Not a awesome PPV but people shit on it more than they should because it is still pretty decent. I didn't think of doing a full review before i started posting, but here it goes.
A little mess on the Harlem Heat thing during the PPV. Kole being called out twice with Kane taking his place on the first match...WTF? Booker and Stevie are not twins to be cool to do that in my estimation. This seemed rather bad, but then again, i enjoyed Cactus & Vader against Norris & Kane. Cactus and Norris did a spot on the outside that looked awesome. Good lord i can't remember the name of the damn move that Cactus hit.
Knobbs & Badd vs. Watts & Roma was a bad match, and watching this i noticed how Missy Hyatt was hot. Seriously. Good lord she looked great on this event. Anyway, Knobbs & Badd won like i expected. Watts wasn't on full jobber mode yet but this would take out some credibility from both Knobbs and Badd. But then a messed up crossbody won them this.
The only Real DUD on this Battlebowl has to be Dustin Rhodes & King Kong vs. Awesome Kong & The Equalizer. That hurt my eyes. EVERY other match was decent or good (other than the one above this one) depending on your estimation of a Battle Royal. If you don't like them, then you put the Battlebowl on the DUDs.
A good wrestling match on Steamboat & Regal vs. Orndorff & The Shockmaster, with Jesse stirring the shit on Steamboat and the heels Orndorff and Regal showing respect for each other much like the babyfaces. Steamboat costing himself the match for the sake of not being by way of cheating was a awesome finish. It really put Steamboat over as a real, die-hard babyface. But then, a must-see on this event.
Keith Cole & Ron Simmons vs. Jerry Sags & Sting was a good match...at the right times. I mean...Keith Cole...what the hell? The guy has less moves than The Great Khali has, because you can't count even on a octopus' tentacles how many times he applied a damn armbar on this match. Holy shit. I think that it was the only move that he applied during this match. But then, Simmons and Sting did great, with Simmons having his WCW finest hours since the World Title reign, as he was up for his heel turn with the Against the Fans gimmick. More Missy Hyatt for me too.
MOTN goes of course to Flair & Austin vs. 2 Cold Scorpio & Maxx Payne. Payne wasn't in the ring much, so i don't take any credit out of him, but then, this was definitely Scorpio's finest hour as well, with him, Flair and Austin having a real good time in the ring. Scorpio had great talent and is such a underrated wrestler it bugs me why is he one (underrated wrestler). Austin and Flair meshed well as a team and WCW missed the boat on the opportunity to put these two together more, with me being one that would have loved to see them on a feud or even teaming together in a Four Horsemen reunion or something, but then again, guess you don't always get what you want.
Rude & Shanghai vs. Bagwell & Slazenger was pretty cool as well, with the Texans brawling and Tex teasing a face turn, but in the end it didn't happen. The result was always obvious to me, with Dicky Rude's team advancing.
I laughed my ass off during Hawk & Rip Rogers vs. Kole & Davey Boy. The Rogers comedy was very funny, with Rip not being able to enter the ring with the exception of the finish. Just some comedy to finish the tag team matches.
Well, in-ring i won't rate the Battle Royal, but IMO Vader winning was a silly decision. They should have had Flair win to gain momentum into Starrcade, or Austin or Rude or Sting or Cactus or anyone credible to make a good challenger for Vader or Flair! Hell, Flair and Vader could have been both eliminated by each other, leaving the final four the four guys i've put above, making it a awesome finish and several options leading up to the aftermath of Starrcade. I would have had Austin winning, with him feuding with Flair after Starrcade for the belt. It would have been a money feud. I have no problem with Vader winning but it was just silly because he didn't need it.
In other notes of the PPV, the segments with Mean Gene and Fifi were a bit funny too, and also, Jesse here makes me miss him very much. He is truly one of the, if not the best color commentator in wrestling history, perhaps just tying with Bobby Heenan.
The PPV was nothing deserving of so much shit it gets, and there was just one or two (or three in some estimations) bad matches there, with some fine wrestling in. I would like to see something like Battlebowl in WWE today because watching this made me miss the concept as well. It was a cool thing, even if it did clearly show up that the picks weren't random because people that were feuding teamed together, Kole came up twice and partners came up against each other twice. I knew that it wasn't really random before i watched it, but i think that it became too obvious right here and it shouldn't be like that, in my opinion.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on May 30, 2014 19:05:33 GMT -5
Battlebowl 1993 for sure. Not a awesome PPV but people shit on it more than they should because it is still pretty decent. I didn't think of doing a full review before i started posting, but here it goes. ... I think the reason Battlebowl gets so much crap is because it got the lowest buyrate of any pro wrestling PPV in history at the time. Of course that record has long since been shattered.
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Post by anticonscience on May 30, 2014 19:21:46 GMT -5
Fully Loaded '99 gets my vote. But my judgment is probably clouded by the fact that it was the 1st PPV I attended live.
It had Austin/Taker in a 1st Blood "End of an Era" match and Rock/HHH in a #1 contender strap match
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Smasher1311
Mike the Goon
The New World Order of Wrestling, brother!
Posts: 40
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Post by Smasher1311 on May 30, 2014 20:10:54 GMT -5
Battlebowl 1993 for sure. Not a awesome PPV but people shit on it more than they should because it is still pretty decent. I didn't think of doing a full review before i started posting, but here it goes. ... I think the reason Battlebowl gets so much crap is because it got the lowest buyrate of any pro wrestling PPV in history at the time. Of course that record has long since been shattered. Wasn't This Tuesday in Texas' buyrate lower?
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Post by cabbageboy on May 30, 2014 22:18:52 GMT -5
Not remotely. Battlebowl did a .27 buyrate, while Tuesday in Texas actually did a 1.0. But then again, Tues. in TX had a Taker/Hogan rematch as well as Jake/Savage, so that show had some drawing power. Battlebowl was a show that didn't even need to happen, a filler Lethal Lottery style show in between major PPVs like Halloween Havoc and Starrcade. It's not horrible or anything, but it should have just been a Clash on TBS. Here's the site I found buyrate info on: www.moonsault.de/archive/ppvbuyrates_wwe.php
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Smasher1311
Mike the Goon
The New World Order of Wrestling, brother!
Posts: 40
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Post by Smasher1311 on May 31, 2014 9:35:13 GMT -5
Oh yeah, you're right. But then, i still think that people should crap less on Battlebowl.
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franchisedavis
Unicron
Called it.
Enter your message here...
Posts: 2,581
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Post by franchisedavis on May 31, 2014 21:34:54 GMT -5
Everyone that suggested Mayhem 99 thanks! it was a really entertaining PPV.
I just wish Vampiro and Berlin was more legit
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Professor Chaos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bringer of Destruction and Maker of Doom
Posts: 16,332
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Post by Professor Chaos on Jun 1, 2014 4:47:50 GMT -5
WrestleMania 28. The Rock beating John Cena has been one of the highlights of my adult life.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jun 8, 2014 6:47:52 GMT -5
Fully Loaded '99 gets my vote. But my judgment is probably clouded by the fact that it was the 1st PPV I attended live. It had Austin/Taker in a 1st Blood "End of an Era" match and Rock/HHH in a #1 contender strap match Borrowing my buddy's VHS of this was my first experience with real porn. That was an interesting time for me.
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Post by brethart1987 on Jun 12, 2014 9:37:08 GMT -5
Not remotely. Battlebowl did a .27 buyrate, while Tuesday in Texas actually did a 1.0. But then again, Tues. in TX had a Taker/Hogan rematch as well as Jake/Savage, so that show had some drawing power. Battlebowl was a show that didn't even need to happen, a filler Lethal Lottery style show in between major PPVs like Halloween Havoc and Starrcade. It's not horrible or anything, but it should have just been a Clash on TBS. Here's the site I found buyrate info on: www.moonsault.de/archive/ppvbuyrates_wwe.phpAre the earlier pay per view buy rates higher, because there were less homes with access to the events?
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Post by cabbageboy on Jun 12, 2014 14:20:42 GMT -5
I think so, which is why I don't quite get the 80s era buyrates. I'm pretty sure now that a 1.0 = 400,000 buys, but I'm not 100% sure. I'm not quite sure though when that started being the case. Still, the shocking thing about those WCW numbers is how good the buyrates were for some truly bad PPVs once Hogan hit the scene circa 1994-95. Most of those 1995 buyrates actually outdid the more celebrated 1996 era shows, with the exception of maybe Halloween Havoc and Starrcade (which in 1995 didn't feature Hogan).
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