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Post by revolver86 on Jul 20, 2014 13:01:01 GMT -5
My biggest example is Big E. Guy has all the tools to become the future face of the company, and look what they're doing to him.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jul 20, 2014 13:01:32 GMT -5
Ok. Good points and I find myself in agreement with HMARK ^
The only reason I named wrestlers such as Batista, Rock, Del Rio, Eddie, Reigns etc is because I felt the discussion was focusing solely on black wrestlers and not on minority wrestlers in general. Yes, they are merely exceptions to a rule, I agree.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jul 20, 2014 13:01:59 GMT -5
My biggest example is Big E. Guy has all the tools to become the future face of the company, and look what they're doing to him. In fairness they wrecked Cesaro, Ziggler and Sandow too
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on Jul 20, 2014 13:03:27 GMT -5
What do you mean 'fine with it'. Cena, Booker and his wife were all (in kayfabe) shocked/visibly annoyed at Mcmahon for saying it. I thought it was too far, but surely the intention was to show how out of touch this old white guy (Vince) was. It should not have happened sure. But, Booker was not fine with it. "TELL ME HE DIDN'T JUST SAY THAT". He means in real life; you're referring to Booker's kayfabe reaction. the point of the cutover was to give his kayfabe reaction not for any thing real
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Post by revolver86 on Jul 20, 2014 13:07:05 GMT -5
My biggest example is Big E. Guy has all the tools to become the future face of the company, and look what they're doing to him. In fairness they wrecked Cesaro, Ziggler and Sandow too As much as I love those guys, I just don't see them as face of the company material like Big E.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jul 20, 2014 13:12:06 GMT -5
I think Cesaro could have been. Never cared for Ziggler.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 20, 2014 13:15:16 GMT -5
He means in real life; you're referring to Booker's kayfabe reaction. the point of the cutover was to give his kayfabe reaction not for any thing real No, it had a very real purpose: to show "here are two of our black wrestlers, and they're on screen when Vince says the N-word. That must mean they're ok with it, and thus you should be, too."
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JoDaNa1281
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Jul 20, 2014 14:00:28 GMT -5
The reasons the WHC was treated equal at that time was A) It was new & needed to be established B) It was on Raw & most importantly C) Because it was the title that Triple H held & competed for. After Batista got drafted to SD with it & Cena came to Raw with the WWE Title, it got downgraded. It got downgraded from clear 1 to 1b? I mean who ever was still world champion had every responsibility that the Raw world champ had. Headline TV shows, headline houseshows and headline PPVs. Both WWE and WHC had to do it during the brand split so I can't say well A Batista reign in 2005 wasn't as valuable as a Cena run because Vince had to pick a champion he thought will make him money on their own value. He wasn't going to pick an under-qualified wrestler who we wouldn't book as a main champion on Raw to be his champion on Smackdown because he was shooting himself in the foot and risked losing money. In 2005, sure they were definitely 1a & 1b, but after a couple years, the gap got bigger, making it a clear case of title a & title b. With people like Khali, Swagger & Dolph in his 1st reign, it became clear that the WHC was like the IC title used to be, which isn't a bad thing, but it was certainly a secondary title by that point.
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on Jul 20, 2014 14:24:28 GMT -5
It got downgraded from clear 1 to 1b? I mean who ever was still world champion had every responsibility that the Raw world champ had. Headline TV shows, headline houseshows and headline PPVs. Both WWE and WHC had to do it during the brand split so I can't say well A Batista reign in 2005 wasn't as valuable as a Cena run because Vince had to pick a champion he thought will make him money on their own value. He wasn't going to pick an under-qualified wrestler who we wouldn't book as a main champion on Raw to be his champion on Smackdown because he was shooting himself in the foot and risked losing money. In 2005, sure they were definitely 1a & 1b, but after a couple years, the gap got bigger, making it a clear case of title a & title b. With people like Khali, Swagger & Dolph in his 1st reign, it became clear that the WHC was like the IC title used to be, which isn't a bad thing, but it was certainly a secondary title by that point. Khali was desperation caused by injuries
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Jul 20, 2014 14:58:45 GMT -5
It got downgraded from clear 1 to 1b? I mean who ever was still world champion had every responsibility that the Raw world champ had. Headline TV shows, headline houseshows and headline PPVs. Both WWE and WHC had to do it during the brand split so I can't say well A Batista reign in 2005 wasn't as valuable as a Cena run because Vince had to pick a champion he thought will make him money on their own value. He wasn't going to pick an under-qualified wrestler who we wouldn't book as a main champion on Raw to be his champion on Smackdown because he was shooting himself in the foot and risked losing money. In 2005, sure they were definitely 1a & 1b, but after a couple years, the gap got bigger, making it a clear case of title a & title b. With people like Khali, Swagger & Dolph in his 1st reign, it became clear that the WHC was like the IC title used to be, which isn't a bad thing, but it was certainly a secondary title by that point. The funny part about the Swagger run ruining belt prestige thing is that during the Kane/Undertaker feud the WHC headline over the WWE title belt in 2 straight events. Summerslam 2010 and HIAC 2010. So it wasn't buried much.
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JoDaNa1281
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Jul 20, 2014 15:05:12 GMT -5
In 2005, sure they were definitely 1a & 1b, but after a couple years, the gap got bigger, making it a clear case of title a & title b. With people like Khali, Swagger & Dolph in his 1st reign, it became clear that the WHC was like the IC title used to be, which isn't a bad thing, but it was certainly a secondary title by that point. The funny part about the Swagger run ruining belt prestige thing is that during the Kane/Undertaker feud the WHC headline over the WWE title belt in 2 straight events. Summerslam 2010 and HIAC 2010. So it wasn't buried much. Thanks a lot, I was trying to forget about that feud.
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barelybeastmode
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Post by barelybeastmode on Jul 20, 2014 18:14:41 GMT -5
In reading the last few pages, I saw a few people talking about the non-white but non-black stars that got to be champion and it got me to thinking. Ignoring that that wasn't what the OP was talking about in the article, I have to wonder if it's wrestling's answer to the whole 'model minority' you see out in the world.
I'm going to reference education here since I saw it myself in school and heard my mother, who's a teacher, reference her coworkers opinions in the past. Typically, it would be asian students who were favored and coddled on near the same level as the white students, regardless of behavior or their academic prowess. They're not white, but they're white enough.
Perhaps in the WWE it's something similar? Like The Rock? He was their model minority. He's obviously not white, but he's considered close and safe when compared with an equally talented and over black performer.
And just as an aside, I had no idea that Batista was half Filipino. I find that hella interesting for some reason.
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