|
Post by joeiscool on Jul 22, 2014 19:20:30 GMT -5
Or you know everyone forgets about battleground, when Summer Slam is really good. Yeah, remember that time no one remembered CM Punk dropping off the face of the planet because WrestleMania was "really good?" They don't chant for him anymore or anything. CM punk is not at all comparable to a filler ppv.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 19:24:45 GMT -5
I'm sure it's been covered by about 50 people already, but realistically at this point all PPVs other than the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania are equal. The Rumble is such a strong gimmick that it's hard to screw up and the result directly impacts WM, and WM is the one PPV that there is never an excuse to f*** up you give the people what they want for that show. The days of the Big 4 are gone, so there's really no reason for a match that was one of the featured matches and one that a lot of people were looking forward to to be held off because SummerSlam is a bigger show. It's not a viable excuse to say that Battleground is a throwaway PPV so it doesn't matter. As a paying customer of the WWE's product it doesn't matter if I pay $10 or $50, I have every right to complain about things that I don't like about the show. This isn't an instance of questionable booking i.e. Battleground 2013 where the advertised main event ends in a no-contest but the match happened, this is advertising something and then not delivering. Yes, Ambrose and Rollins had a couple of fun brawls, but this wasn't a Raw or Smackdown this was a PPV that people actually paid to see and for a lot of people Rollins/Ambrose wrestling was a large selling point. I think that some people are of the mindset that "PPV's are only $10 now so you have no right to complain or expect great shows" and that is a very dangerous line of thinking and is accepting of mediocrity. This doesn't even factor in the live audience who were hyped for Ambrose/Rollins and instead had to watch most of the brawl on the TitanTron. With the first renewal period coming up for the Network the WWE cannot afford to have throwaway shows and do things that will likely piss off the paying customers, because a certain percentage of people will cycle in and out and the renewal period will soon be a constant thing making every show very important, even the perceived throwaway shows.
|
|
|
Post by Savage Gambino on Jul 22, 2014 19:26:37 GMT -5
Yeah, remember that time no one remembered CM Punk dropping off the face of the planet because WrestleMania was "really good?" They don't chant for him anymore or anything. CM punk is not at all comparable to a filler ppv. Nah, one of the most over Superstars of our time just dropping off the face of the planet with no explanation to the fans is totes the same as a match being canceled on a filler PPV no-one had high expectations for in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by joeiscool on Jul 22, 2014 19:28:33 GMT -5
lol. You got 8 matches. plus a non contest brawl between two people who were advertised. If anything you are missing a pickle... That's if you believe that what happened wasn't a normal thing that happens in professional wrestling, from time to time... It killed the crowd. They wanted the match, for whatever reason more so than anything else, and didn't get it. At that point, logistics become secondary to the fact that you have upset customers. In business you don't look at that and say "oh, well, this is just how we do things," you make sure you do not repeat that mistake again. You learn a lesson and adapt. You do not get butt-hurt that people did not approve of your presentation. You fix it. Once again I'm not talking as a wwe defender/ or an wwe offical, just as a person who saw the lineup and got pretty much what he was expecting...
|
|
|
Post by Mayonnaise on Jul 22, 2014 19:41:21 GMT -5
It killed the crowd. They wanted the match, for whatever reason more so than anything else, and didn't get it. At that point, logistics become secondary to the fact that you have upset customers. In business you don't look at that and say "oh, well, this is just how we do things," you make sure you do not repeat that mistake again. You learn a lesson and adapt. You do not get butt-hurt that people did not approve of your presentation. You fix it. Once again I'm not talking as a wwe defender/ or an wwe offical, just as a person who saw the lineup and got pretty much what he was expecting... But you are talking for yourself and expecting others to feel the same when numerous people have told you that is not the case. That show sucked on every level for me and for several other and no amount of "but...but...but" will change that.
|
|
|
Post by joeiscool on Jul 22, 2014 19:42:45 GMT -5
I'm sure it's been covered by about 50 people already, but realistically at this point all PPVs other than the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania are equal. The Rumble is such a strong gimmick that it's hard to screw up and the result directly impacts WM, and WM is the one PPV that there is never an excuse to f*** up you give the people what they want for that show. The days of the Big 4 are gone, so there's really no reason for a match that was one of the featured matches and one that a lot of people were looking forward to to be held off because SummerSlam is a bigger show. It's not a viable excuse to say that Battleground is a throwaway PPV so it doesn't matter. As a paying customer of the WWE's product it doesn't matter if I pay $10 or $50, I have every right to complain about things that I don't like about the show. This isn't an instance of questionable booking i.e. Battleground 2013 where the advertised main event ends in a no-contest but the match happened, this is advertising something and then not delivering. Yes, Ambrose and Rollins had a couple of fun brawls, but this wasn't a Raw or Smackdown this was a PPV that people actually paid to see and for a lot of people Rollins/Ambrose wrestling was a large selling point. I think that some people are of the mindset that "PPV's are only $10 now so you have no right to complain or expect great shows" and that is a very dangerous line of thinking and is accepting of mediocrity. This doesn't even factor in the live audience who were hyped for Ambrose/Rollins and instead had to watch most of the brawl on the TitanTron. With the first renewal period coming up for the Network the WWE cannot afford to have throwaway shows and do things that will likely piss off the paying customers, because a certain percentage of people will cycle in and out and the renewal period will soon be a constant thing making every show very important, even the perceived throwaway shows. You have a right to complain about anything... But my only point was that filler ppvs like this have been the WWE's mo for years. There was no reason to believe that Battleground would have been any different. I was just saying I don't get the disappointment.. You got pretty good matches and extending story-lines. If you can't appreciate that you probably should just watch the big four ppvs, or follow a different promotion..
|
|
|
Post by joeiscool on Jul 22, 2014 19:50:40 GMT -5
Once again I'm not talking as a wwe defender/ or an wwe offical, just as a person who saw the lineup and got pretty much what he was expecting... But you are talking for yourself and expecting others to feel the same when numerous people have told you that is not the case. That show sucked on every level for me and for several other and no amount of "but...but...but" will change that. Once again I don't blame anyone for not liking the show, my point is that if you don't enjoy shows like this you probably should evaluate why you watch the current wwe product.
|
|
|
Post by Mayonnaise on Jul 22, 2014 19:54:22 GMT -5
But you are talking for yourself and expecting others to feel the same when numerous people have told you that is not the case. That show sucked on every level for me and for several other and no amount of "but...but...but" will change that. Once again I don't blame anyone for not liking the show, my point is that if you don't enjoy shows like this you probably should evaluate why you watch the current wwe product. Except, myself and several others who did not like last night's show normally like the product which blows your idea up. The simple fact you are ignoring is your ideas don't fit everyone. You keep talking about people who didn't like last night's show needing to evaluate why they watch when that is bullshit. People saw a bad show and are calling WWE on it. Feelings for the product overall have no bearing on that.
|
|
|
Post by joeiscool on Jul 22, 2014 20:05:52 GMT -5
Once again I don't blame anyone for not liking the show, my point is that if you don't enjoy shows like this you probably should evaluate why you watch the current wwe product. Except, myself and several others who did not like last night's show normally like the product which blows your idea up. The simple fact you are ignoring is your ideas don't fit everyone. You keep talking about people who didn't like last night's show needing to evaluate why they watch when that is bullshit. People saw a bad show and are calling WWE on it. Feelings for the product overall have no bearing on that. It's not bs... Outside of the brawl the ppv kinda went a way that was pretty predictable. Lots of people are mad cause Cena won, which happens most of the time. Lots of people are mad cause bray lost, which happens most of the time. If you are tired of that happening you probably need to stop watching, because spoiler alert it's going to happen again. and again
|
|
|
Post by Mayonnaise on Jul 22, 2014 20:21:42 GMT -5
Except, myself and several others who did not like last night's show normally like the product which blows your idea up. The simple fact you are ignoring is your ideas don't fit everyone. You keep talking about people who didn't like last night's show needing to evaluate why they watch when that is bullshit. People saw a bad show and are calling WWE on it. Feelings for the product overall have no bearing on that. It's not bs... Outside of the brawl the ppv kinda went a way that was pretty predictable. Lots of people are mad cause Cena won, which happens most of the time. Lots of people are mad cause bray lost, which happens most of the time. If you are tired of that happening you probably need to stop watching, because spoiler alert it's going to happen again. and again Spoiler alert: YOU'RE WRONG. I like the product. I expected either Roman or Cena to win and Bray to lose (check the Battleground and Smackdown thread from last week if ya don't believe me) but the way they went about it all I did not like which makes your whole "stop watching" or "reevaluate your whatever" bullshit. You cannot tell people that don't like something that they need to change something about themselves, nothing works like that. You cannot stand that people didn't like the show which is fine, I've been there too but the idea that people need to change and adopt your believes about the product does not work at all. I'm going to enjoy the show I think are done well and tear apart the ones I hate and for the first time in a year or more, I'm tearing them apart for a horrid show.
|
|
BigBadZ
Grimlock
The Rumors Are All True
Posts: 13,923
|
Post by BigBadZ on Jul 22, 2014 20:30:00 GMT -5
What if this was a case of Vince booking ppvs since WrestleMania (which Trips was reportedly in charge of) and he was going super meta and complaining on Vince by complaining about us and... Oh no, I've just gone cross eyed.
Instead of saying "call up my buddy Mark" he should have said "I'm going to go online and complain. I'm gonna send angry tweets that I am gonna threaten and riot. And if that doesn't work, I'm gonna stop watching.... Oh hai Mark"
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 20:30:10 GMT -5
If people thought they were going to see what WWE told them they were going to see, then I don't know what they were expecting.
What is there to whine about? They told you this highly anticipated match was going to happen, and then it didn't. So?
Why would you be annoyed that something you paid for isn't what was advertised? Money grows on trees, everyone knows this, maybe you don't?
|
|
|
Post by joeiscool on Jul 22, 2014 20:37:00 GMT -5
It's not bs... Outside of the brawl the ppv kinda went a way that was pretty predictable. Lots of people are mad cause Cena won, which happens most of the time. Lots of people are mad cause bray lost, which happens most of the time. If you are tired of that happening you probably need to stop watching, because spoiler alert it's going to happen again. and again Spoiler alert: YOU'RE WRONG. I like the product. I expected either Roman or Cena to win and Bray to lose (check the Battleground and Smackdown thread from last week if ya don't believe me) but the way they went about it all I did not like which makes your whole "stop watching" or "reevaluate your whatever" bullshit. You cannot tell people that don't like something that they need to change something about themselves, nothing works like that. You cannot stand that people didn't like the show which is fine, I've been there too but the idea that people need to change and adopt your believes about the product does not work at all. I'm going to enjoy the show I think are done well and tear apart the ones I hate and for the first time in a year or more, I'm tearing them apart for a horrid show. you still are failing to see my point... My point is that this was pretty much a "normal" ppv... There have been and there are going to be others like it. If you don't like this ppv you should re-evaluate watching clash of champions, hell in a cell, and probably some other ppvs as well.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 20:37:10 GMT -5
Except, myself and several others who did not like last night's show normally like the product which blows your idea up. The simple fact you are ignoring is your ideas don't fit everyone. You keep talking about people who didn't like last night's show needing to evaluate why they watch when that is bullshit. People saw a bad show and are calling WWE on it. Feelings for the product overall have no bearing on that. It's not bs... Outside of the brawl the ppv kinda went a way that was pretty predictable. Lots of people are mad cause Cena won, which happens most of the time. Lots of people are mad cause bray lost, which happens most of the time. If you are tired of that happening you probably need to stop watching, because spoiler alert it's going to happen again. and again Your argument mainly consists of "if you expect quality from a filler PPV then you need to reevaluate why you watch, because they're not going to give it to you." Not exactly a strong argument. I don't even really think that anyone expected Cena to lose, considering that the general consensus is "not Orton, definitely not Kane, and Roman needs a bigger stage" so that part of your argument is blown up right off of the bat. That doesn't even factor in that Cena/Brock is probably the worst kept secret in recent memory so most everyone figured that Cena would win. Most people are more shocked that Jericho actually won a match than are mad at Bray losing, some people are naturally questioning the direction of his character, but ultimately it's not that big of a deal. I like well booked shows, with good wrestling and all of the main event level matches which are advertised. I really don't think that's too much to ask, filler PPV or not. I'm done with this nonsense.
|
|
|
Post by joeiscool on Jul 22, 2014 20:42:40 GMT -5
It's not bs... Outside of the brawl the ppv kinda went a way that was pretty predictable. Lots of people are mad cause Cena won, which happens most of the time. Lots of people are mad cause bray lost, which happens most of the time. If you are tired of that happening you probably need to stop watching, because spoiler alert it's going to happen again. and again I don't even really think that anyone expected Cena to lose, considering that the general consensus is "not Orton, definitely not Kane, and Roman needs a bigger stage" so that part of your argument is blown up right off of the bat. That doesn't even factor in that Cena/Brock is probably the worst kept secret in recent memory so most everyone figured that Cena would win. Lol did you even look at the Battleground thread here. It's filled with omg cena won/Bray lost. It's not to say other people weren't upset by other things but they were literally the biggest complaints about the show here...
|
|
|
Post by Mayonnaise on Jul 22, 2014 20:52:10 GMT -5
Spoiler alert: YOU'RE WRONG. I like the product. I expected either Roman or Cena to win and Bray to lose (check the Battleground and Smackdown thread from last week if ya don't believe me) but the way they went about it all I did not like which makes your whole "stop watching" or "reevaluate your whatever" bullshit. You cannot tell people that don't like something that they need to change something about themselves, nothing works like that. You cannot stand that people didn't like the show which is fine, I've been there too but the idea that people need to change and adopt your believes about the product does not work at all. I'm going to enjoy the show I think are done well and tear apart the ones I hate and for the first time in a year or more, I'm tearing them apart for a horrid show. you still are failing to see my point... My point is that this was pretty much a "normal" ppv... There have been and there are going to be others like it. If you don't like this ppv you should re-evaluate watching clash of champions, hell in a cell, and probably some other ppvs as well. No I have seen your point across several page and it is wrong. First you only see people that hated this show as also hating WWE which is 100% wrong. Second WWE only puts Wrestlemania above the other 12 shows so saying this was obviously not going to be special is wrong. On top of that, when they are wanting people to subscribe to their Network or buy these shows on PPV, not a one of them can be throwaway. Now when people purchase a PPV or decide to give it their time, they do so with an expectation to enjoy it, not this flawed idea of "Well obviously it is a b show so you need to check you expectations at the door and be ready to be fed whatever". When people devote their time or money to a product, they do so because they enjoy it and expect to enjoy the next installment of it. For whatever their reasoning, whether it was because they were told a match would happen and didn't, whether they expected different outcomes (or at least different ways there) or whether the whole thing just left a bad taste in their mouth, they did not enjoy the show and that is their prerogative. Your idea of people needing to accept any idea you have about these shows being a certain way, is indeed bullshit. Just because I or anyone else did not enjoy this show does not mean that we will not enjoy Night of Champions, Survivor Series or any of the other shows that is not Wrestlemania. There is absolutely nothing for us to re-evaluate. This show failed to deliver, oh well on to the next for those that liked the product but not the show. For those that were on the edge going in, well I'd say WWE lost some business.
|
|
|
Post by joeiscool on Jul 22, 2014 20:59:38 GMT -5
you still are failing to see my point... My point is that this was pretty much a "normal" ppv... There have been and there are going to be others like it. If you don't like this ppv you should re-evaluate watching clash of champions, hell in a cell, and probably some other ppvs as well. No I have seen your point across several page and it is wrong. First you only see people that hated this show as also hating WWE which is 100% wrong. Second WWE only puts Wrestlemania above the other 12 shows so saying this was obviously not going to be special is wrong. On top of that, when they are wanting people to subscribe to their Network or buy these shows on PPV, not a one of them can be throwaway. Now when people purchase a PPV or decide to give it their time, they do so with an expectation to enjoy it, not this flawed idea of "Well obviously it is a b show so you need to check you expectations at the door and be ready to be fed whatever". When people devote their time or money to a product, they do so because they enjoy it and expect to enjoy the next installment of it. For whatever their reasoning, whether it was because they were told a match would happen and didn't, whether they expected different outcomes (or at least different ways there) or whether the whole thing just left a bad taste in their mouth, they did not enjoy the show and that is their prerogative. Your idea of people needing to accept any idea you have about these shows being a certain way, is indeed bullshit. Just because I or anyone else did not enjoy this show does not mean that we will not enjoy Night of Champions, Survivor Series or any of the other shows that is not Wrestlemania. There is absolutely nothing for us to re-evaluate. This show failed to deliver, oh well on to the next for those that liked the product but not the show. For those that were on the edge going in, well I'd say WWE lost some business. I'm saying this is the product WWE is going to give you in normal PPVS. You either like it or you don't. You don't have to like anything, but you should expect it, because that's what they have been doing for so long. It might be bad business for them to do it, they might need re think it, but there is no reason why you should be expecting much more than what we got from other normal ppvs. That is my point.
|
|
|
Post by jjdash on Jul 22, 2014 21:02:26 GMT -5
My two cents...
If you paid $60 for the PPV you likely fall into 1 of 2 camps.
1. You bought it for the overall show, in which case I don't see what the problem is. You got pretty much what was advertised, though you may be a little saddened by not seeing the actual match.
2. You bought it for maybe 3 matches and don't really care about the rest (tag match, Rollins vs Ambrose and championship match). I can see why you would be pissed off and WWE has risked alienating some people here, but honestly I think this group is a very small minority.
Personally, I would never buy a B-PPV like battleground. Around here, people are pretty much on board with the fact that these are quite often 'glorified raws'.
If you are a subscriber on the network, you haven't missed out on much at all. You got a B-PPV or glorified raw for pretty much free, and will still get to see the match when Summerslam rolls around.
I think what the WWE has done here is actually pretty smart. It has made Summerslam more attractive overall and possibly/probably negated the effects of pissed off people who spent $60 for three matches and only got 2 of them.
On the other hand, some subscribers might be annoyed in the short term, but they shouldn't be apocalyptic with rage unless they subscribed to watch Battleground and absolutely nothing else. By the time Summerslam rolls around, the disappointment of Battleground will be forgotten. The subscribers that sign up/renew thinking that the network is a good deal overall when you look at the whole 6 months of programming, will far outweigh those who are still bitter that they had to wait a month for Rollins/Ambrose.
Why would you spend $60 on a B-PPV when you can de-risk your WWE investment by subscribing to 6 months of programming?
|
|
|
Post by Mayonnaise on Jul 22, 2014 21:03:29 GMT -5
No I have seen your point across several page and it is wrong. First you only see people that hated this show as also hating WWE which is 100% wrong. Second WWE only puts Wrestlemania above the other 12 shows so saying this was obviously not going to be special is wrong. On top of that, when they are wanting people to subscribe to their Network or buy these shows on PPV, not a one of them can be throwaway. Now when people purchase a PPV or decide to give it their time, they do so with an expectation to enjoy it, not this flawed idea of "Well obviously it is a b show so you need to check you expectations at the door and be ready to be fed whatever". When people devote their time or money to a product, they do so because they enjoy it and expect to enjoy the next installment of it. For whatever their reasoning, whether it was because they were told a match would happen and didn't, whether they expected different outcomes (or at least different ways there) or whether the whole thing just left a bad taste in their mouth, they did not enjoy the show and that is their prerogative. Your idea of people needing to accept any idea you have about these shows being a certain way, is indeed bullshit. Just because I or anyone else did not enjoy this show does not mean that we will not enjoy Night of Champions, Survivor Series or any of the other shows that is not Wrestlemania. There is absolutely nothing for us to re-evaluate. This show failed to deliver, oh well on to the next for those that liked the product but not the show. For those that were on the edge going in, well I'd say WWE lost some business. I'm saying this is the product WWE is going to give you in normal PPVS. You either like it or you don't. You don't have to like anything, but you should expect it, because that's what they have been doing for so long. It might be bad business for them to do it, they might need re think it, but there is no reason why you should be expecting much more than what we got from other normal ppvs. That is my point. But again, you're wrong. People liked the post-Mania shows for the most part so this idea that this is the norm we have to expect is, wait for it, WRONG. On top of that, no one ever has to accept things just because you think it is the norm and been done forever and day despite that not being the case. You're completely wrong on everything.
|
|
|
Post by joeiscool on Jul 22, 2014 21:09:08 GMT -5
I'm saying this is the product WWE is going to give you in normal PPVS. You either like it or you don't. You don't have to like anything, but you should expect it, because that's what they have been doing for so long. It might be bad business for them to do it, they might need re think it, but there is no reason why you should be expecting much more than what we got from other normal ppvs. That is my point. But again, you're wrong. People liked the post-Mania shows for the most part so this idea that this is the norm we have to expect is, wait for it, WRONG. On top of that, no one ever has to accept things just because you think it is the norm and been done forever and day despite that not being the case. You're completely wrong on everything. Money in the bank would have been a normal ppv if DB hadn't gotten hurt. The main event would have been DB vs kane, again. I mean come on.
|
|