Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Sept 24, 2014 15:21:49 GMT -5
The Hogan thing was dumb and it's good it played out the way it did. With 'dream' matches the appeal is that it's a one off. Don't turn a one off into "I job, you job, I job, you job..until nobody gives a crap" that's 99% of booking these days.
One time deal, monster buy rate - thank you very much and done!
What was embarrassing was all those fans who bought the PPV the night before got told on Raw how it didn't matter. It spat in the face of every single person who paid 40 bucks or whatever it was to see it.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 24, 2014 15:33:54 GMT -5
Stone Cold has even mentioned Taped Fists. Shawn is just not trying to own up to some of shit he did back in the day because he's trying to change his image. The irony being that if he actually DID own up to some of the things he did, it would do a lot more to help change his image. The same thing happened on his DVD with Bret, like Bret owned up to a lot of things, basically even admitting that he was kinda jealous of Shawn, but everytime JR asked him something to come clean, Shawn said that he didn't remembered it, man crack's a hell of a drug.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Sept 24, 2014 15:49:41 GMT -5
The irony being that if he actually DID own up to some of the things he did, it would do a lot more to help change his image. The same thing happened on his DVD with Bret, like Bret owned up to a lot of things, basically even admitting that he was kinda jealous of Shawn, but everytime JR asked him something to come clean, Shawn said that he didn't remembered it, man crack's a hell of a drug. I am quite sure Shawn remembers a lot of his dirty deeds. He just rather not think about it or doesn't care to remember, either way I can't say I blame him really. He did admit that he was a over the top troll who loved pushing individuals buttons, starting crap he couldn't finish, and a serious drug user.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 15:54:36 GMT -5
The Hogan thing was dumb and it's good it played out the way it did. With 'dream' matches the appeal is that it's a one off. Don't turn a one off into "I job, you job, I job, you job..until nobody gives a crap" that's 99% of booking these days. One time deal, monster buy rate - thank you very much and done! What was embarrassing was all those fans who bought the PPV the night before got told on Raw how it didn't matter. It spat in the face of every single person who paid 40 bucks or whatever it was to see it. Agreed. I still can't believe people are justifying Shawn's behavior because "Hogan deserved it". First of all, watch any shoot interview from wrestler's of that era. I guarantee you Shawn is much more vilified (by a huge margin) than Hogan is. Secondly, Shawn has vacated titles and faked/exaggerated injuries to get out of doing jobs so much that he is in fact the master of it, so if "karma" was involved at Summerslam 2005, then it was Shawn getting what was coming to him, not Hogan. Third, you don't act like an unprofessional douche on camera when people paid money to see you. Leave that petty crap behind closed doors. Shawn made it public and he (and only he) ends up looking bad. Hogan got paid for one match and he won. He doesn't look bad at all.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 24, 2014 15:55:52 GMT -5
The same thing happened on his DVD with Bret, like Bret owned up to a lot of things, basically even admitting that he was kinda jealous of Shawn, but everytime JR asked him something to come clean, Shawn said that he didn't remembered it, man crack's a hell of a drug. I am quite sure Shawn remembers a lot of his dirty deeds. He just rather not think about it or doesn't care to remember, either way I can't say I blame him really. He did admit that he was a over the top troll who loved pushing individuals buttons, starting crap he couldn't finish, and a serious drug user. Yeah even Trips admitted that HBK deserved to get his ass kicked by that one marine, stating, "it was a case of Shawn being Shawn". Or Nash and Waltman admitting he was an asshole, I think most of the clique hate is because they were HBK's friends.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Sept 24, 2014 15:59:19 GMT -5
I am quite sure Shawn remembers a lot of his dirty deeds. He just rather not think about it or doesn't care to remember, either way I can't say I blame him really. He did admit that he was a over the top troll who loved pushing individuals buttons, starting crap he couldn't finish, and a serious drug user. Yeah even Trips admitted that HBK deserved to get his ass kicked by that one marine, stating, "it was a case of Shawn being Shawn". Or Nash and Waltman admitting he was an asshole, I think most of the clique hate is because they were HBK's friends.
Bret even mentioned in his book that he witnessed a lot of Shawn's antics with running his mouth, shouting racial slurs, and drugging himself up so much that Nash and Hall had to back him up when a fight almost broke out. Didn't Tim White almost quit because Shawn made his life miserable while he was babysitting him?
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 24, 2014 16:05:21 GMT -5
I don't remember that, I know Hall and Nash even had to defend him even when they didn't wanted to. One time the Harris Brothers were about to choke him out. Nash told the story that he was afraid that Taker's BSK group was gonna kick their asses (the Harris Boys were members).
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Post by Throwback on Sept 24, 2014 19:17:41 GMT -5
Taker said it's a variation of what happened. Shawn said Taker went to management. Yeah, Shawn says that. Everything from Taker's very, very carefully spoken words to his body language says, "Shawn was gonna get the shit kicked out him". Crush already saved Shawn once from Taker and Vince saved his ass during the Screwjob. Nothing I've ever heard says Taker was a HBK fan. I'm not denying shit would have went down if Shawn didn't job. I'm just saying that Taker didn't exactly say it happened or didn't happen. He's the Taker, he had his reputation questioned. Of course he's going to say shit would have went down.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Sept 24, 2014 21:23:25 GMT -5
I don't remember that, I know Hall and Nash even had to defend him even when they didn't wanted to. One time the Harris Brothers were about to choke him out. Nash told the story that he was afraid that Taker's BSK group was gonna kick their asses (the Harris Boys were members). In Bret's book he talks about an incident where Shawn was running his mouth off, and in the process made a racial slur that someone took offense to. It resulted to this African-American guy receiving a head butt from Hall, Bret said Shawn was so drugged up on Somas he was in no shape to back up his words. Which is very ironic, considering even when sober he culd never back up his words.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Sept 24, 2014 21:33:30 GMT -5
Yeah even Trips admitted that HBK deserved to get his ass kicked by that one marine, stating, "it was a case of Shawn being Shawn" By marine, do you mean group of guys with crew cuts mistaken as marines? Also by "ass kicked" does that mean dragging a practically unconsious Shawn out of a car and beating him so badly that they almost tore off his eyelid? This is consistent with the police report that was filed later. But hey...let's not let that get in the way of Michaels' bashing. He probably still deserved it to some people here.
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Post by The Trashman on Sept 24, 2014 21:50:36 GMT -5
The thing I STILL don't understand about this urban legend or whatever is like are you telling me that Shawn Michaels was so full of himself that the day of WrestleMania, despite the fact that he had a severe back injury and wouldn't be able to wrestle for a long time after this match was going to refuse to put over the guy who it made most logical sense to put over? Like what exactly would he do, just refuse to lose to him because he should still be champion despite being injured? All Vince has to do is tell him to f*** off and sit his injured ass on the shelf since he'd be no use to WCW while hurt anyway Thats not even mentioning the fact that Shawn should know pretty well what happens when someone refuses to job..........
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 24, 2014 21:59:19 GMT -5
Yeah even Trips admitted that HBK deserved to get his ass kicked by that one marine, stating, "it was a case of Shawn being Shawn" By marine, do you mean group of guys with crew cuts mistaken as marines? Also by "ass kicked" does that mean dragging a practically unconsious Shawn out of a car and beating him so badly that they almost tore off his eyelid? This is consistent with the police report that was filed later. But hey...let's not let that get in the way of Michaels' bashing. He probably still deserved it to some people here. Didn't know a police report existed, I only knew what Waltman and others said on shoot interviews, that Michaels was trying to hit on a marine's girlfriend, and kept insisting. I always thought it was an exaggeration, but thanks for pointing out that it was a large group, Michaels didn't deserved that bad of a beating, even though he was behaving like a punk.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Sept 24, 2014 22:04:03 GMT -5
To be fair the only consistent I had heard was that Shawn had no idea what happened to him.
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Post by Adam Black on Sept 24, 2014 23:12:37 GMT -5
That's exactly what people are telling you. Michaels always politicked his way out of dropping titles. Yeah but there comes a point where it's like "do you think he honestly took it THIS far?" Like at least in the past he could say "I'm the face of the company" but he's f***ing hurt in this scenario, what else COULD he do? That's why I have a hard time believing that he refused to job. Maybe Taker warned him just in case or Michaels wasn't happy about it or something, but him saying he wouldn't do it is too out of reality for me Vacate the title without losing it? He's done it before you know.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 24, 2014 23:45:04 GMT -5
Yeah but there comes a point where it's like "do you think he honestly took it THIS far?" Like at least in the past he could say "I'm the face of the company" but he's f***ing hurt in this scenario, what else COULD he do? That's why I have a hard time believing that he refused to job. Maybe Taker warned him just in case or Michaels wasn't happy about it or something, but him saying he wouldn't do it is too out of reality for me Vacate the title without losing it? He's done it before you know. Yeah, as far as I know he vacated the tag team championships he held with Diesel, vacated the IC belt, he vacated the European belt that joke match he had with triple h doesn't count, and he also lost his smile and vacated the wwf championship.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Sept 24, 2014 23:49:56 GMT -5
]Vacate the title without losing it? He's done it before you know. Okay, let's go through the entire history of Shawn's titles prior to his 2002 return again, shall we? People will always argue shit like he lost only to his buddies and all that, but that's just ridiculous. The only people who were even on par with Michaels at this time outside of the Kliq were Bulldog, Jarrett and Bret. It's silly to say that because he didn't lose to any of these three people that he only put over his friends. Out of all his vacated titles, the only one that ever irked me was his second WWF title win due to the delivery from Shawn. While I feel he was honest, it was clear he had an attitude about it when the crowd reacted negatively to it. I also felt him winning in his hometown really shortchanged Sid as champion. Also let me go on record as to say that I hate when any title is vacated...it's a pet peeve of mine no matter the circumstances but I'm not going to single Michaels out simply because "he had more". The funniest thing of all to me is, I'm not even that big of a Michaels' fan, at least not 90's Michaels. Bret was so much better on every caliber as "the guy". But I can't help but point out obvious things when it comes to these threads since it becomes a lynch mob who treat the guy as if he was the f***in' antichrist of wrestling.
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Post by baerrtt on Sept 25, 2014 3:40:06 GMT -5
Considering Shawn's state of mind around '98 isn't also likely that if he was told that Taker would kick his ass if he didn't do the job to Austin he would've just walked out then and there? It's possible Taker, as someone has noted here, was waiting to go out there if he screwed up but that nobody told Shawn directly. If he walked when he got hit at the Boston public workout(and according to reports nearly walked after the Bret backstage beatdown the year before) then he would doubly do so upon being threatened.
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Hanzo
Dennis Stamp
"You want Cena to go to ECW?!"
Posts: 4,666
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Post by Hanzo on Sept 25, 2014 6:08:30 GMT -5
You know all these years I thought Tyson just counted fast out of excitement/lack of training. Maybe Vince really wasn't sure that Michaels would do business and having Tyson fast count the finish was an insurance policy. Man, all these years and I've never even thought about that being a possibility. That makes a lot of sense.
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