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Post by Digital Witness on Oct 29, 2014 19:24:11 GMT -5
Being the massive social anxiety case that I am, I can't even really fathom the situation in the video.
Hell, half the time I'm walking along a street I feel creepy even making eye contact. God forbid I actually speak as well.
I'm getting a sort of affirmation from this video that one on one communication with strangers in public is absolutely terrible and should be avoided at all costs. Especially if they're the opposite sex.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Oct 29, 2014 19:28:10 GMT -5
This is a really clever way to show the world that you're a good looking person.
Kidding aside; like most "movements" I take issue with the way things are done....but it's hard to argue this stance.
Man or woman, you should be treated well. You can talk to people, but don't be a dick/creep. It boils down to just being a good person or not. I hope eventually most people fall into the former.
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Post by Square on Oct 29, 2014 19:40:33 GMT -5
There has been this egotistical nature growing in society which is sad. This feeling that you are so special and you are so amazing that the world is against you. That any comment is attacking you because you're so amazing the world needs to drag you down a little. Its a shame that this has happened because its creating a toxic environment online and in social circles where ego stroking turns into hatred and discrimination.
Is someone going "I'M GOING TO FOLLOW YOU AND DO DIRTY THINGS TO YOU" bad? OF COURSE. But is an old gentleman going "good morning beautiful" bad? I call everyone mate and love. Not every guy is my friend and neither am I in love with every woman.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Oct 29, 2014 19:53:23 GMT -5
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Post by Dave the Dave on Oct 29, 2014 20:00:11 GMT -5
I like that Daily Show vid too. I think it makes the point better.
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 29, 2014 20:19:21 GMT -5
There has been this egotistical nature growing in society which is sad. This feeling that you are so special and you are so amazing that the world is against you. That any comment is attacking you because you're so amazing the world needs to drag you down a little. Its a shame that this has happened because its creating a toxic environment online and in social circles where ego stroking turns into hatred and discrimination. Is someone going "I'M GOING TO FOLLOW YOU AND DO DIRTY THINGS TO YOU" bad? OF COURSE. But is an old gentleman going "good morning beautiful" bad? I call everyone mate and love. Not every guy is my friend and neither am I in love with every woman. You realize your point is infinitely more applicable to the people doing the harassing, correct? Like, people who feel the world revolves around them, to the point that they expect women to smile for them, respond to them, make time for them, all while those women are just trying to mind their own business. That's self-absorption. And, please, don't present strawman arguments. The video clearly doesn't show old gentlemen doffing their caps and saying "Good morning, madam", so your point is completely lost here.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 20:19:34 GMT -5
I like that Daily Show vid too. I think it makes the point better.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 20:23:52 GMT -5
But is an old gentleman going "good morning beautiful" bad? When its randomly shouted to a woman trying to walk to work? Yes. Well, its not "bad," just bad manners. Old, young, it doesn't really matter the age.
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 29, 2014 20:31:31 GMT -5
But is an old gentleman going "good morning beautiful" bad? When its randomly shouted to a woman trying to walk to work? Yes. Well, its not "bad," just bad manners. Old, young, it doesn't really matter the age. And the main question is, is said man (old, young, otherwise) greeting other men the same way? If not, then it's gendered harassment.
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Post by "I'm Batman..." on Oct 29, 2014 20:41:41 GMT -5
Sometimes girls will smile at me, but I am too afraid to say anything.
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Post by Talent Name on Oct 29, 2014 20:58:10 GMT -5
That is how New York City is every day for everyone, not just women. Women though have it worse, men get it too but it isn't as bad. Most of the people in the video more than likely aren't homeless as a few have said but rather that is how NYC is people just hanging out all day or selling random things or just walking around
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Oct 29, 2014 21:00:28 GMT -5
Sometimes girls will smile at me, but I am too afraid to say anything. Ah, you shouldn't be. When someone smiles at you, that's usually the go-ahead that it's ok to start up a conversation with them, male or female.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Oct 29, 2014 21:04:16 GMT -5
Sometimes girls will smile at me, but I am too afraid to say anything. Ah, you shouldn't be. When someone smiles at you, that's usually the go-ahead that it's ok to start up a conversation with them, male or female. Or that they see you as easy prey for some kinda of horrible plan that can only end with you having all your money stolen, getting tied to a random highway post with no pants, or you being slow BBQed for her and her hillbilly cannibal families Thanksgiving.
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Post by Sparkybob on Oct 29, 2014 21:09:29 GMT -5
Sometimes girls will smile at me, but I am too afraid to say anything. Ah, you shouldn't be. When someone smiles at you, that's usually the go-ahead that it's ok to start up a conversation with them, male or female. Yea you should talk with them, if you want to be bitten by a vampire.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Oct 29, 2014 21:15:33 GMT -5
Ah, you shouldn't be. When someone smiles at you, that's usually the go-ahead that it's ok to start up a conversation with them, male or female. Yea you should talk with them, if you want to be bitten by a vampire. Or even worse, he might get cooties!
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Post by Reflecto on Oct 29, 2014 21:39:26 GMT -5
The problem with that is simple: To many women, THAT would count as a form of harassment TOO- and especially if they're already being harassed and in the bad mood that would come from it. If some stranger's harassing her, and some other stranger comes up and harasses the stranger to try and protect her from it, there's too many ways it can backfire if you don't know the person. BEST-CASE, you seem like a "white knight" harasser to her and expect something from her for "saving her" from this asshole- not even counting that you have also shown that you're a hothead, if not violent (which makes you MORE threatening to her, for good reason). You're overthinking it; best case, you distract the guy doing the harassing (e.g. pretend you're a tourist and ask for some directions or something), you prevent her from being harassed, and then tell the guy as you're leaving "harassing a woman is really screwed up, dude". And why would the person come off as a "hothead" in that situation? Keep it simple, there's no major drama necessary. The big reason for that is that the situation has a lot of problems. The example given (pretend you're a tourist and ask for some directions or something) is a case where- if it's the best case you described, then you will be able to distract the person...but in all likeliness, if the person being distracted is willing to help you in that case, then odds are you're going after someone who was genuinely trying to be nice, but the woman took it wrong (and picking on someone who doesn't deserve the attack.) In that situation, A person who is really serious on genuine harassment or really being unwilling to take a hint would, in that situation, invariably respond to the effect of "Back off, pal, me and the lady are having a conversation here!" or something like that- which would escalate it to at least an argument. Then you bring in other statements said by the person who made this argument of the same point in the thread: Ain't nobody telling you to throw hands, though let's be real, that might be what it comes down to because some guys take great offense to being told you probably shouldn't say just anything to women (just recently a guy did get killed over stepping in when a woman got harassed). But our hands aren't tied and there's a lot of things dudes usually won't do to other dudes when we say something...you know, like follow us home or kill us. Sure. It'd be the next logical step after educating people about it but I could see it resulting in a fist fight more often than not. Alotta "Mind your business, I'm talking to the lady" BS. There's a middle ground for sure though that I think people need to reach where maybe someone dissuades a friend from doing it. But to a total stranger? I dunno if that would be the best route. I dunno though. When said later, the point is that in all likeliness, this will probably lead to an argument at best, a fight at worst- and WHEN it does (NOT IF, because again if they are willing to harass a woman like this, in all likeliness they'll have no problems whatsoever throwing down- especially if it's a stranger doing it)- and no matter what happens, even if you get the argument in your favor or win the fight that would happen- then you've just shown this woman, who is being harassed and in the MOOD of someone who's been harassed, that you're argumentative and will argue with some guy in the street, you just "protected her" (putting you in that "white knight" harasser claim)- only now, she knows that you're argumentative or even openly violent if she doesn't give you what you want. If you really don't think that that is FAR WORSE than even the skeeviest street harasser, you really need to check your priorities.
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 29, 2014 21:43:08 GMT -5
That is how New York City is every day for everyone, not just women. Women though have it worse, men get it too but it isn't as bad. Most of the people in the video more than likely aren't homeless as a few have said but rather that is how NYC is people just hanging out all day or selling random things or just walking around I haven't seen anything like that for us guys at all, and I live in a city next door to, and routinely make my way into, downtown Manhattan. 99% of my time there I get to keep entirely to myself, if I so choose. If you mean that both men and women deal with people begging for money or trying to sell bootleg DVDs or something, sure, there's enough of that to go around, but that's a really different interaction than somebody commenting on your person or randomly greeting you as if they expect you to smile and say "hi" back or something.
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Post by Square on Oct 29, 2014 21:44:31 GMT -5
There has been this egotistical nature growing in society which is sad. This feeling that you are so special and you are so amazing that the world is against you. That any comment is attacking you because you're so amazing the world needs to drag you down a little. Its a shame that this has happened because its creating a toxic environment online and in social circles where ego stroking turns into hatred and discrimination. Is someone going "I'M GOING TO FOLLOW YOU AND DO DIRTY THINGS TO YOU" bad? OF COURSE. But is an old gentleman going "good morning beautiful" bad? I call everyone mate and love. Not every guy is my friend and neither am I in love with every woman. You realize your point is infinitely more applicable to the people doing the harassing, correct? Like, people who feel the world revolves around them, to the point that they expect women to smile for them, respond to them, make time for them, all while those women are just trying to mind their own business. That's self-absorption. And, please, don't present strawman arguments. The video clearly doesn't show old gentlemen doffing their caps and saying "Good morning, madam", so your point is completely lost here. I don't think that they are one and the same. The woman was looking to be offended whilst the man was frankly trying his luck. Is it wrong the way he tries to flatter? In my opinion yes, however firstly as a white Englishman I don't share his same culture or teachings so I can not truly understand nor is his way of flattery totally repugnant to all women. Some women respond well to that, they like it. He tried his luck with a girl, as someone that goes out to nightclubs to talk to girls I have no right to judge. And by the very fact that the old gentleman was in this video whilst white people were not it shows that they were trying to make a point. And from a lot of comments saying that its for example "pervy" I believe people have made the connections that the video was making. Education is needed for both sides of this argument. The catcalling man to read the timing of a situation and the "me, me, me" woman to think before reacting.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Oct 29, 2014 21:46:28 GMT -5
My problem with some of this is belittling men's issues. I'm 100% in agreement that women have it worse, but men who voice that they feel either harrassed or objectified get ridiculed or made to feel "silly" for even trying to say they have anything less than.
I'm not saying that is happening in this thread. That is one of my pet peeves with some of the sect and I feel like I can voice opinions here because people are generally open minded.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 21:50:45 GMT -5
I don't even know how I feel about you going through all this trouble to justify why you shouldn't help a woman getting harrased, Reflecto. I'm not saying that to guilt-trip you into changing your mind, because I'm not saying this to change your mind really. It's obviously made up and nothing I can say is going to change it, but... Do you, dude. Do you. Just don't quote me unless you're addressing me directly, that's all I ask.
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