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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 7:12:42 GMT -5
Thing is the motive was there though. Harriet Jones Prime Minister (WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE) was clashing with him. Both just happened to be in the wrong But she wasn't in the wrong, she fired on aliens who had attacked her planet. They said they weren't going to come back, but they'd surrendered to the Doctor not 5 minutes before, then literally tried to stab him in the back. As she said, Earth needs to stand on it's own without him. So he changes history by eradicating a golden age of prosperity and exploration benefiting billions because it's his way or nothing. Thing is there is no true way of changing history as seen in Father's Day. Everything ends up happening in one way or another
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Dec 11, 2014 7:31:51 GMT -5
Thing is the motive was there though. Harriet Jones Prime Minister (WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE) was clashing with him. Both just happened to be in the wrong But she wasn't in the wrong, she fired on aliens who had attacked her planet. They said they weren't going to come back, but they'd surrendered to the Doctor not 5 minutes before, then literally tried to stab him in the back. As she said, Earth needs to stand on it's own without him. So he changes history by eradicating a golden age of prosperity and exploration benefiting billions because it's his way or nothing. Welcome to NuWho (Not calling it Doctor Who) That's one thing I despise, the preaching (and the inconsistency). I know Doctor Who had its preachy moments but it wasn't as in your face as NuWho is, like it's constantly nudging you in the side going "Did you get that....did ya...DID YA!!!!". Don't get me wrong NuWho has it's moments of brilliance (or at least Very good) but they're way to rare an occurrence.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Dec 11, 2014 8:17:43 GMT -5
But she wasn't in the wrong, she fired on aliens who had attacked her planet. They said they weren't going to come back, but they'd surrendered to the Doctor not 5 minutes before, then literally tried to stab him in the back. As she said, Earth needs to stand on it's own without him. So he changes history by eradicating a golden age of prosperity and exploration benefiting billions because it's his way or nothing. Thing is there is no true way of changing history as seen in Father's Day. Everything ends up happening in one way or another Fathers Day was about changing your own time stream, history can totally be changed apart from some fixed points. Basically, once you've lived through it, it's happened and you can't change it. The problem came from Rose changing her own past, on top of being seen by her past self. This was changing history, the Doctor, both 9 and 10 new Harriet Jones, and knew she lead Britain in a golden age, but then 10 says words and changes is. They actually show this in the old series, "Pyramids of Mars" when Sarah Jane basically says "nothing can happen here in 1911, I'm from 1980 and the world wasn't destroyed so lets just leave and it'll work out", the Doctor then travels to 1980 mid adventure and it's a desolate wasteland so they have to go back and save the day.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Dec 11, 2014 8:20:16 GMT -5
But she wasn't in the wrong, she fired on aliens who had attacked her planet. They said they weren't going to come back, but they'd surrendered to the Doctor not 5 minutes before, then literally tried to stab him in the back. As she said, Earth needs to stand on it's own without him. So he changes history by eradicating a golden age of prosperity and exploration benefiting billions because it's his way or nothing. Welcome to NuWho (Not calling it Doctor Who) That's one thing I despise, the preaching (and the inconsistency). I know Doctor Who had its preachy moments but it wasn't as in your face as NuWho is, like it's constantly nudging you in the side going "Did you get that....did ya...DID YA!!!!". Don't get me wrong NuWho has it's moments of brilliance (or at least Very good) but they're way to rare an occurrence. See, I love the stories of NuWho, but 10, well, he's just a self righteous dick on many occasions (Human Nature/Family of Blood being another major example that annoys me), if they could have another Doctor in those adventures, I'd love it. I'm a big Matt Smith fan, think as the Doctor he was great, but the stories around him weren't as good as the Russell T Davies era.
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FinalGwen
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Post by FinalGwen on Dec 11, 2014 10:30:10 GMT -5
The Game Station you just have to watch knowing it's something that dates the show right when Big Brother/The Weakest Link were popular, the general idea of being sucked into life or death games used to pacify the population isn't a bad one, it's just been done elsewhere and isn't really a Dalek-y thing to do. That's just it though. I'm not mad at the episode for taking shots at it as I found everything hilarious (From Annedroid to Bear With It). What made me mad is that the original episode Station 5 is mentioned (The Long Game) we are introduced to a villian that was basically filler, and then we get towards the end and they not only force us to feel like this area is part of the bigger picture, but bring in The Daleks and somehow try to convince us that this whole scheme is something they would do, when The Daleks only execute, not think out plans. Not only that but there is no explanation for anything else introduced to us in the saga, like the blue lady or even IF The Daleks survived The Time War (Which I still know NOTHING about), how come it took them this long to strike, and where were they in 2012 during the incident with "The Last Dalek" where the one on Earth didn't even sense them?!? Puppy is Confused Just to point out, the Daleks DO plan rather than just execute. From as far back as The Dalek Invasion Of Earth in Hartnell's era, they were making vast sweeping plans for conquest. By Troughton's time they were conducting experiments to insert the 'Dalek Factor' into humanity to make them more like them. And you don't fight a Time War without having some strategy. Thing is the motive was there though. Harriet Jones Prime Minister (WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE) was clashing with him. Both just happened to be in the wrong But she wasn't in the wrong, she fired on aliens who had attacked her planet. They said they weren't going to come back, but they'd surrendered to the Doctor not 5 minutes before, then literally tried to stab him in the back. As she said, Earth needs to stand on it's own without him. So he changes history by eradicating a golden age of prosperity and exploration benefiting billions because it's his way or nothing. I think this also requires some political context, as it's fairly obviously based on the sinking of the Belgrano on the orders of Margaret Thatcher during the Falklands War, which is often seen as a war crime. Given Who's general attitude to Thatcher (and what a 'golden age' under such a figure might represent, so I don't think we missed much), you can probably see what side the writers would take. Of course, it also serves as perfect setup for Ten's more cavalier attitude to paradox.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 11:29:00 GMT -5
The Game Station you just have to watch knowing it's something that dates the show right when Big Brother/The Weakest Link were popular, the general idea of being sucked into life or death games used to pacify the population isn't a bad one, it's just been done elsewhere and isn't really a Dalek-y thing to do. That's just it though. I'm not mad at the episode for taking shots at it as I found everything hilarious (From Annedroid to Bear With It). What made me mad is that the original episode Station 5 is mentioned (The Long Game) we are introduced to a villian that was basically filler, and then we get towards the end and they not only force us to feel like this area is part of the bigger picture, but bring in The Daleks and somehow try to convince us that this whole scheme is something they would do, when The Daleks only execute, not think out plans.
Not only that but there is no explanation for anything else introduced to us in the saga, like the blue lady or even IF The Daleks survived The Time War (Which I still know NOTHING about), how come it took them this long to strike, and where were they in 2012 during the incident with "The Last Dalek" where the one on Earth didn't even sense them?!? Puppy is Confused You couldn't be more wrong about that.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 11, 2014 11:40:54 GMT -5
Yeah, Daleks plan all the time. They aren't just murder machines.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 11:48:54 GMT -5
Thing is I didn't get that impression from them at all. Especially after knowing the whole "No emotions but hate" thing. I just assumed they all acted on impulse
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 11, 2014 16:00:46 GMT -5
Thing is I didn't get that impression from them at all. Especially after knowing the whole "No emotions but hate" thing. I just assumed they all acted on impulse Not true at all. Daleks are incredibly intelligent. If they were just hateful killing machines the Time War would've been over as quick as 'hey look at this airlock' and it has a wormhole in it that fires them off into space.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Dec 11, 2014 16:12:46 GMT -5
Welcome to NuWho (Not calling it Doctor Who) That's one thing I despise, the preaching (and the inconsistency). I know Doctor Who had its preachy moments but it wasn't as in your face as NuWho is, like it's constantly nudging you in the side going "Did you get that....did ya...DID YA!!!!". Don't get me wrong NuWho has it's moments of brilliance (or at least Very good) but they're way to rare an occurrence. See, I love the stories of NuWho, but 10, well, he's just a self righteous dick on many occasions (Human Nature/Family of Blood being another major example that annoys me), if they could have another Doctor in those adventures, I'd love it. I'm a big Matt Smith fan, think as the Doctor he was great, but the stories around him weren't as good as the Russell T Davies era. Except if you listen to Davies he says that they wrote Tennant's Doctor as an arrogant prick on purpose, intending to have a whole "pride comes before a fall" thing. Except that doesn't really come into play until the end of The Waters of Mars and the payoff nowhere near makes up for nearly five years of the Doctor acting like a dick.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 11, 2014 16:57:13 GMT -5
See, I love the stories of NuWho, but 10, well, he's just a self righteous dick on many occasions (Human Nature/Family of Blood being another major example that annoys me), if they could have another Doctor in those adventures, I'd love it. I'm a big Matt Smith fan, think as the Doctor he was great, but the stories around him weren't as good as the Russell T Davies era. Except if you listen to Davies he says that they wrote Tennant's Doctor as an arrogant prick on purpose, intending to have a whole "pride comes before a fall" thing. Except that doesn't really come into play until the end of The Waters of Mars and the payoff nowhere near makes up for nearly five years of the Doctor acting like a dick. I hear the same thing about Scott Pilgrim being an asshole and it's like, good job, you achieved making your central character an asshole. I still don't care what happens to him just because you did it on purpose. All he had to do was regenerate which presumably also happens whenever he stubs his toe in the shower.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Dec 11, 2014 17:07:24 GMT -5
Except if you listen to Davies he says that they wrote Tennant's Doctor as an arrogant prick on purpose, intending to have a whole "pride comes before a fall" thing. Except that doesn't really come into play until the end of The Waters of Mars and the payoff nowhere near makes up for nearly five years of the Doctor acting like a dick. I hear the same thing about Scott Pilgrim being an asshole and it's like, good job, you achieved making your central character an asshole. I still don't care what happens to him just because you did it on purpose. All he had to do was regenerate which presumably also happens whenever he stubs his toe in the shower. Yeah, don't get me started on "I don't want to go..." The one good thing Moffet did was to semi-retcon that nonsense.
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Post by Larryhausen on Dec 11, 2014 23:21:28 GMT -5
Shit.
Ten's my favorite so far. Just marathoned Matt Smith's first series yesterday, and he doesn't hold a candle to Tennant in my eyes. Though I do like him a bit more than Eccleston.
I think I might keep a low profile in this thread.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Dec 12, 2014 2:51:02 GMT -5
See, I love the stories of NuWho, but 10, well, he's just a self righteous dick on many occasions (Human Nature/Family of Blood being another major example that annoys me), if they could have another Doctor in those adventures, I'd love it. I'm a big Matt Smith fan, think as the Doctor he was great, but the stories around him weren't as good as the Russell T Davies era. Except if you listen to Davies he says that they wrote Tennant's Doctor as an arrogant prick on purpose, intending to have a whole "pride comes before a fall" thing. Except that doesn't really come into play until the end of The Waters of Mars and the payoff nowhere near makes up for nearly five years of the Doctor acting like a dick. Ah, so it was on purpose. Just really badly done. About 10 minutes at the end of a special after over 3 seasons is hardly a fall. It's also hard to tell since his first 2 years he has companions that blindly back him up so there's no one in universe calling him out on this. As a one series arc where even Rose, who loves him and is his most devoted companion turns on him because of this, something bad happens and he changes, realising the error of his ways, that'd work. Instead we got "I'm brilliant" "You're brilliant" "Yeah, I really am" God dammit. I also agree that Moffat bringing up "I don't want to go" and confirming (spoiler for the OP) {Spoiler}the meta crisis as an actual regeneration, so he's the only Doctor vain enough to regenerate into himself are nice touches, they show the vanity far better than RTD ever did.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2014 14:39:10 GMT -5
So I'm at Idiot's Lantern
Is there any reason why this Magpie guy is working with The Wire?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2014 1:26:50 GMT -5
Officially at Love and Monster's
Just skipped to Fear Her, though I geeked for ELO
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Post by DSR on Dec 28, 2014 1:48:28 GMT -5
Officially at Love and Monster's I recall enjoying that one, but apparently the majority of the fanbase hates it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2014 1:58:23 GMT -5
Officially at Love and Monster's I recall enjoying that one, but apparently the majority of the fanbase hates it. I'll rewatch it later, I did like it for what it was...but it felt like it stalled everything, especially after The Beast
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 28, 2014 15:05:40 GMT -5
I recall enjoying that one, but apparently the majority of the fanbase hates it. I'll rewatch it later, I did like it for what it was...but it felt like it stalled everything, especially after The Beast Stalling everything I can deal with. Appalling special effects, lame humour and a f***ing DICK JOKE I cannot deal with.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Dec 28, 2014 15:55:29 GMT -5
Officially at Love and Monster's Just skipped to Fear Her, though I geeked for ELO Ah, the 1-2 of the worst episodes of the modern series in a row.
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