Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Dec 23, 2014 6:03:58 GMT -5
So I was thinking about Rollins and that thread and the criticism he gets for his promos got me thinking - are people's views on what counts as a good promo skewed because of guys who were around 15 years ago or so such as the Rock.
Now whenever Rock was in the ring with a microphone it was fun, don't get me wrong. Let's take the fun label, give it to him, concede the point and break out into a respectful round of applause.
That said - were they that good? By good I mean in terms of the content relevant to the occasion and worded to enhance the feud/match, and also did they achieve their aim of doing so. I think you could argue that if you look away what you might call his catchphrase check-list, a lot of what he said wasn't really relevant and never really enhanced much. If you deduct the catchphrases and build up to those catchphrases (e.g where he asks the other guy's opinion so he can jump in with "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK"...) - what else was there?
Fun? Sure. But who'd it help other than the Rock. Why did the Rock humiliating someone on the mic each week make you want to see the match or how did it help the other guy get over?
If you broke down the actual content of any post 'great one' Rock promo, although the delivery may be less 'fun' there are a few guys today who aren't considered great talkers who actually pack more punch into what they say but because they don't have his catchphrases or charisma, it gets ovelooked.
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Post by adam3s on Dec 23, 2014 6:20:11 GMT -5
Disagree.
The Rock was always very good at putting he's opponent over as a threat and making people want to see the matches he was in. As was Austin/Jericho and at the time Triple H. He was also good at doing it through he's body language too. I actually was able to believe what they were saying through their conviction which is far more important that the script itself probably why the now heavily scripted promos don't work.
They were of course helped by a commentary team that sounded like they gave a damn and would sell the matches.
With the exception of Bryan and Bray, almost no one in the WWE today is able to get that passion through in their promos. (Cena tries but more often that not, I don't buy it.)
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Post by IMPRESSIVE knightwing1047 on Dec 23, 2014 8:52:46 GMT -5
Rock's promos, to me, were the highlight of the show sometimes. I remember my friends and I using his insults on each other the next day at school haha.
But when he had a stinker... ooh boy, they stunk. Ie- Shut-up Soda (or something like that)
Seth is improving by leaps and bounds. Cena, though... man he just doesn't inspire me with his promos. He just sounds so forced and scripted. Now, last night was an improvement (for both of them) but I just notice when Cena curses during his promos, last night he said "ass," he sounds like a kid when they swear. Almost like he's trying not to giggle after he used the word.
But I definitely liked edgier Cena. I know they are real-life friends, I wish Cena would get a little advice from Rock on sounding more organic.
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sebulba
Team Rocket
Glass ceiling?!! What glass ceiling?
Posts: 940
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Post by sebulba on Dec 23, 2014 9:07:14 GMT -5
I think Rock's promos were superb. When he was 'wronged' he did 'intense' superbly. For me, a case in point was the funny/intense promo he cut just before he fought Hulk Hogan at Wrestlemania. That, IMHO was how to go from mocking to angry to intense, get your inevitable catchphrases over, put over the importance of the match and entertain an audience in one fell swoop. The man was/is a genius.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Dec 23, 2014 9:14:03 GMT -5
I agree to a point on him partially burying guys with his catchphrases. He took some of the piss out of some guys and that is counter productive. Billy Gunn comes to mind. Mankind too. Foley at least had the ring work to recover or get heat from the Rock's cocky promos. Rock got better about it as he matured. But he seemed to go into overdrive when the crowd reacted on a line here and there and he would make the other guy look less than. As he grew older he gave more andthe feuds were more even.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 120,893
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 23, 2014 9:16:08 GMT -5
I think he was sometimes overrated in how well he got catchphrases over, with many missing their mark, but plenty of them worked out ultimately.
I think he did a very good job of what, ultimately, the point of his promos were, which was to get over, get people heat, and put over an upcoming match. I think he was ultimately just as guilty of treating people as jokes on occasion that people complain about Cena doing, but I've never really felt that the face need be overly complimentary of people who have usually beaten the shit out of him from behind by now, or otherwise have given them plenty of reason to dislike one another.
I don't think he's THE best promo guy WWE has had, but I think he'd easily be in my top 5, so I have to disagree.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 10:05:16 GMT -5
He was one of the best of all time on the mic. His delivery, timing, charisma, facial expressions, etc, were always on point, and as someone who was in HS/college during the MNW, I can say the Rock's promos fit that time period perfectly.
His watered down Disney/PG stuff since coming back haven't been as good, but I think that's more the environment today than the Rock himself.
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Jeff Mangum PI
Hank Scorpio
11 herbs and spices for the rest of eternity; Is Number Two. Number Two!
The 2nd Coming
Posts: 6,957
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Dec 23, 2014 10:48:34 GMT -5
He was one of the best of all time on the mic. His delivery, timing, charisma, facial expressions, etc, were always on point, and as someone who was in HS/college during the MNW, I can say the Rock's promos fit that time period perfectly. His watered down Disney/PG stuff since coming back haven't been as good, but I think that's more the environment today than the Rock himself. I know all the legends get the face pops every time they show up, but for one night I'd love to see heel Rock again. Specifically Hollywood Rock.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 23, 2014 10:53:41 GMT -5
Gonna be 1 word answer, but it's the answer:
Charisma.
Content was largely irrelevant.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Dec 23, 2014 11:04:04 GMT -5
For me, Rock and Cena are the same in terms of their promos/content/catchphrases - when they're bad, they're really, really bad but when they're good, they're magic
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Post by Just call me D.j.m. on Dec 23, 2014 11:14:08 GMT -5
Gonna be 1 word answer, but it's the answer: Charisma. Content was largely irrelevant. WWE top babyfaces in a nutshell. To be clear, I think the OP is justified, but WWE is all about style over substance.
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Post by madness50 on Dec 23, 2014 11:16:27 GMT -5
Rock is one of the best guys ever on the mic, but he has said some cringeworthy stuff on TV though. Things like "Kung-pow bitch", "cookie puss", "popcorn fart", and "shut-up juice" were really odd and lame.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 23, 2014 11:21:45 GMT -5
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK!
I admit that the material gets grating at times, especially in recent years. But, from a purely objective standpoint, Rock's promos are not overrated at all. He was a guy that had the crowd eating out of his hands and hanging off every word that came out of his mouth. Regardless of how you personally feel about his style, he's one of the all-time great promo cutters for that alone.
I was watching the "This is Your Life, Rock!" segment the other night and I was amazed. There was a moment when Rocky told Mankind to shut up because the people were chanting his name. The crowd, who were intently listening to what he was saying at this point and not making all that much noise, IMMEDIATELY broke out in loud "Rocky!" chants. Shit was like a ventriloquist act. You can count on one hand the amount of wrestlers that can do that and Rock got that kind of reaction all the time.
It's a matter of objectivity. It's fine to not like the guy and to not be a fan of his style but no, in no world is he overrated despite what some people try to claim. He is one of the best to have ever cut a promo in this business because almost nobody has been able to match his raw charisma. That's what promos are about. They are meant to get people invested in the character and Rocky knew how to do that better than 99% of wrestlers. That's where people get it mixed up. You can talk all day and night about a feud, explain every important angle in it, and make it clear when the blowoff is happening and it all means less than nothing if the crowd doesn't give a shit about it. Rocky made sure the crowd cared about his angles and were willing to pay money to see him.
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Post by xCompackx on Dec 23, 2014 11:24:46 GMT -5
I think that The Rock's ability to leave for months, come back for one night, and immediately outdo 99% of the rest of the roster on the mic is proof that his promos aren't overrated.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 12:59:26 GMT -5
Rollins promos remind me of what some smark would write in an e-fed.
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FAR5222
El Dandy
Counted 237 Bros. SWERVE Got no cookie for it.
Posts: 7,889
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Post by FAR5222 on Dec 23, 2014 13:15:25 GMT -5
The Rock knowns how to deliver his promos. He has me engaged no matter how childish or shit the material is, I'm in engaged because he has this presence that nobody has. There is a lot of conviction in what Rock says that you get sucked in and want more from him. John Cena is just about the only full time guy with that same presence as The Rock. When I attend a live show I actually get goosebumps when Cena's theme hits same as The Rock.
Rollins doesn't have that same presence and delivery. He can talk enough to get his point across but I don't feel engaged. Presence and delivery is what Rollins lacks. If you have presence and delivery and conviction in what you say then I'll be engaged and listen. Wyatt has those three but his material is so bland it's hard to even care about him from a character standpoint.
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RIHT
Hank Scorpio
Wanted a title with "YOU'RE WELCOME!" Close enough.
Hey-yo.
Posts: 5,897
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Post by RIHT on Dec 23, 2014 17:24:25 GMT -5
I think that The Rock's ability to leave for months, come back for one night, and immediately outdo 99% of the rest of the roster on the mic is proof that his promos aren't overrated. I was wishing someone like Rock showed up on last night's Raw, because man was it boring.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 23, 2014 17:28:15 GMT -5
lol
Rock is one of the best promo guys in the history of wrestling
He's rated just fine.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 23, 2014 18:34:49 GMT -5
The Rock is the Nirvana of promos - simultaneously overrated and a tad underrated at the same time.
He is so respected for his promos that there is now a backlash saying he's shitty, when in actual fact while he wasn't always the greatest ever as far as, say, skills or content, his charisma was so forceful that he got ANYTHING over.
At the same time, even people saying 'charisma gets everything over' are underrating him. In '98 and '99 Rock was still mostly fart jokes and assholery with enough charisma to get over but we forget that he was green as goat shit even then. By 2000, 2001, 2002, he was starting to work in serious shit with his promos as well. I still get chills at the Hollywood Hogan promo 'Hollywood Hogan, The Rock BELIEVED in you!' Then there's the sit down with Stone Cold. 'You are going to get the absolute best of The Rock.'
So yeah. The Rock is the Nirvana of wrestling promos. Worse than you realise, but better than you think.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 18:42:27 GMT -5
The Rock's serious or intense promos are criminally underrated. He might be also the only guy who has the ability to bury someone on the mic, but actually not burying them and getting them even more over by result. Hell even when he was a babyface with another babyface (Mankind)
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