|
Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Dec 23, 2014 19:03:47 GMT -5
So I was thinking about Rollins and that thread and the criticism he gets for his promos got me thinking - are people's views on what counts as a good promo skewed because of guys who were around 15 years ago or so such as the Rock. Now whenever Rock was in the ring with a microphone it was fun, don't get me wrong. Let's take the fun label, give it to him, concede the point and break out into a respectful round of applause. That said - were they that good? By good I mean in terms of the content relevant to the occasion and worded to enhance the feud/match, and also did they achieve their aim of doing so. I think you could argue that if you look away what you might call his catchphrase check-list, a lot of what he said wasn't really relevant and never really enhanced much. If you deduct the catchphrases and build up to those catchphrases (e.g where he asks the other guy's opinion so he can jump in with "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK"...) - what else was there? Fun? Sure. But who'd it help other than the Rock. Why did the Rock humiliating someone on the mic each week make you want to see the match or how did it help the other guy get over? If you broke down the actual content of any post 'great one' Rock promo, although the delivery may be less 'fun' there are a few guys today who aren't considered great talkers who actually pack more punch into what they say but because they don't have his catchphrases or charisma, it gets ovelooked. I'd say that even when he was being absolutely insane and not talking anything about the actual feud, he still succeeded in making me want to see a match like that. I'll agree that a lot of today's guys have better content in their promos, but I'll say that I don't think they enhance their feuds as much as Rock's did. In short, Rock got me hyped. I think the fun overrode the content with him. When he spoke, I didn't care about what or why he was so energetic, all that happened is that I got caught up in his charisma and understood the general message: the man was goddamn hyped for his match, and I could never help but me caught up in it too and find myself hyped. With today's guys, I rarely find myself hyped in their promos or storylines--their delivery is kind of bland. There's no emotion there, no charisma to suck me into caring about them. Not to say that he's the only one to act like that--Punk's original pipebomb worked for me because of this. That whole angle he just seemed like he cared about his match more than anything else. I think a good way to sum up what I mean is, as much as today's guys give me rational reasons to care about their matches, they sure as hell can't convince me of it. It's like when you hear your roommate tell you about this better pizza place that's cheaper and tastes better than the one you guys usually go to--even if he's right, and even if you know he's right, there's a part of you that's just like "I don't know, you don't seem too certain about what you are saying" so you doubt them in spite of logic. I just don't get that "hype" from them. They yell, they reason, but for all their talent a lot of them just can't make me CARE about their matches. Rock has a rare ability of making it seem like he cares about his matches more than life itself, like the only thing that even exists in the world at that moment is him, the crowd, the ring and his opponent. I also think that's one of the main reasons he became such a good action hero in Hollywood. Once he's in the middle of the stage, he sucks you in and makes you focus on nothing else but the event in question. I'll agree that his content isn't good, but man, he made me want to see the match by helping me immerse myself in the world they were showing me. Like his character cared so much about so many insignificant things it made me want to turn off my brain and just sit along for the ride, be that a raw match or a PPV. I don't know about whether it helped his opponents or not, but I can say for certain that he helped make me want to watch raw a lot of times.
|
|
nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 6,999
|
Post by nate5054 on Dec 24, 2014 1:11:22 GMT -5
The content of his promos often sucked.
His delivery of them, however, is absolutely the best I've ever seen. By a long shot.
|
|
|
Post by Urfarkendarf on Dec 24, 2014 1:39:48 GMT -5
If you broke down the actual content of any post 'great one' Rock promo, although the delivery may be less 'fun' there are a few guys today who aren't considered great talkers who actually pack more punch into what they say but because they don't have his catchphrases or charisma, it gets ovelooked. With Rocky its about delivery. His catchphrases were mostly silly garbage, but coming from him they had real power. He was able to convey that he believed what he was saying. That's the mark of a good actor. Conviction and believability, no matter what is being said. The ability to press the suspension of disbelief upon to viewers/listeners is a powerful thing. As always, Youtube "The Rock Toronto 2003". Stronger than a bear, faster than a buck, the biggest thing to hit Canada...cause the Maple Leafs suck! The way he controls the crowd, not just with his words, but how he's saying them, how he's reacting to them. That's something that cannot be taught. Rock is the best ever at delivering a promo. I don't think there's much competition. His style may not be a favorite, but what he was able to do is undeniable.
|
|
|
Post by PsychoGoatee on Dec 24, 2014 1:43:33 GMT -5
Random note, there are different varieties of The Rock. My favorite is the earlier attitude era Rock with the wacky shirts and whatnot. He had so much eccentric larger than life weirdness to him, he was a really unique character. Since his comeback, he's playing himself pretty much, being a relatable down to Earth guy, who still has energy to throw around comedy catchphrases when need be.
But I'd say on the mic and as a character in general, in his prime The Rock was incredible, and not at all overrated. Maybe I could agree recent Rock is "overrated", but I don't really feeel that way because he's earned the response he gets.
|
|
|
Post by Urfarkendarf on Dec 24, 2014 1:46:34 GMT -5
Random note, there are different varieties of The Rock. My favorite is the earlier attitude era Rock with the wacky shirts and whatnot. He had so much eccentric larger than life weirdness to him, he was a really unique character. Since his comeback, he's playing himself pretty much, being a relatable down to Earth guy, who still has energy to throw around comedy catchphrases when need be. But I'd say on the mic and as a character in general, in his prime The Rock was incredible, and not at all overrated. Maybe I could agree recent Rock is "overrated", but I don't really feeel that way because he's earned the response he gets. Hollywood Rock for me. 2003 to be exact. Height of his power as far as Im concerned.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2014 2:18:11 GMT -5
They were nearly unbeatable at the time, but have aged HORRIBLY. When he came back a few years ago cutting the same kinda promos it came off so hokey and corny to me.
Dudes got charisma for sure, but those promos were definitely over rated from a written perspective.
|
|
|
Post by Lance Uppercut on Dec 24, 2014 2:24:26 GMT -5
He reminds me of Bray Wyatt. Great Delivery, cool lines, but taking forever to get to the point.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2014 2:33:41 GMT -5
To be honest I never liked Rock's babyface promos, even in the attitude era. It was pretty much week after week of him stringing together his 5,000 catch phrases for 10 minutes. He's gold as a heel but babyface Rock has, in large part, lead me to stop watching WWE for extended periods of time on two separate occasions.
|
|
|
Post by berlynwright on Dec 24, 2014 4:54:50 GMT -5
Rocky could cut a promo on coconut juice and it will still be better than anything not done by Heyman these days.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2014 5:26:29 GMT -5
People really need to stop using the word "objectively".
We're judging a wrestling promo. Objectively does not exist.
The Rock's promos were awful. Yeah, he had great delivery but the content was terrible. He never had anything meaningful to say.
|
|
|
Post by Long A, Short A on Dec 24, 2014 5:35:39 GMT -5
First and foremost, I'm not a chatty chat stan. Most promos get on my nerves for one reason or another. I've never liked Rock's promos. The content and the delivery reminds me of a special needs kid trying to cuss someone out. Especially when he would talk way too fast and stumble over his words.
|
|
Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
|
Post by Boo! on Dec 24, 2014 5:42:09 GMT -5
If you consider how much of is promos were catchphrase repetition and build-up to those catchphrases, wouldn't be quite easy to do a half-decent Rock promo purely by imitation of his mannerisms?
It was the same when HHH was in his phase of repeating "That. Damn. Good" and other various plodding favourite quotes. Now of course Rock was more charismatic but for me it's like Elvis - it isn't that hard to do a fairly decent Elvis impersonation - thousands do. It doesn't detract from the original's charisma but it might mean he didn't have the most unique singing voice in the world. Similarly with Rock - I think if you told any of the guys now to cut a promo like the Rock - they'd end up with cutting a pretty good promo if all they did was just repeat the catchphrases
"Finally..."
".....stick it straight up your candy ass."
etc.
I think in general the Attitude era saw a lowering of standards of what constituted a great promo and people just wanted to hear catchphrases to the point now where, many years on, repetition of catchphrases and various spots of audience participation is what's defined now as a great promo, over and above content and purpose.
|
|
|
Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 24, 2014 6:02:09 GMT -5
He never had anything meaningful to say. This is absolutely not true, as I said earlier in the thread even in the Attitude Era while he had a lot of garbage and catchphrases in his promos (which lest we forget were the bread and butter of most Attitude Era promos) he would occasionally pull out real stuff. There's the two examples I cited, there's even a backstage segment which I think might be from Summerslam 2001 where a doctor is trying to check his health and he just rattles off a mini promo about how he got the shit kicked out of him on the go home show ('Is the Rock hurt? Yeah the Rock's hurt, is the Rock down? Hell yeah he's down but The Rock is HERE.') And as his career wore on, The Rock showed that he got get serious even while in Rock mode. I'm not saying that much or the majority of his promos had any kind of real content, just that there's more to them than you're giving him credit for.
|
|
|
Post by Andy Martin on Dec 24, 2014 7:50:42 GMT -5
Random note, there are different varieties of The Rock. My favorite is the earlier attitude era Rock with the wacky shirts and whatnot. He had so much eccentric larger than life weirdness to him, he was a really unique character. Since his comeback, he's playing himself pretty much, being a relatable down to Earth guy, who still has energy to throw around comedy catchphrases when need be. But I'd say on the mic and as a character in general, in his prime The Rock was incredible, and not at all overrated. Maybe I could agree recent Rock is "overrated", but I don't really feeel that way because he's earned the response he gets. Hollywood Rock for me. 2003 to be exact. Height of his power as far as Im concerned. That version of his theme, and the 'build up' to it, were both fantastic.
|
|
efarns
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,273
|
Post by efarns on Dec 24, 2014 12:00:31 GMT -5
His job is not to conform to a promo textbook, but to make money for himself and the company. He was pretty good at it.
|
|
|
Post by Citizen Snips on Dec 24, 2014 12:15:44 GMT -5
Fun? Sure. But who'd it help other than the Rock. Why did the Rock humiliating someone on the mic each week make you want to see the match or how did it help the other guy get over? The other guy would get over by beating the hell out of The Rock. His promos may have buried his opponent, but during the matches and in-ring segments, Rock possibly got beat up and beaten more than any other top guy ever.
|
|
|
Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Dec 24, 2014 13:02:24 GMT -5
The thing I always find with him is, for every great insult/one liner like "IT DOESN'T MATTER!", there's about five "Kung Pao Bitch".
|
|
|
Post by The Trashman on Dec 24, 2014 13:03:18 GMT -5
He actually got reactions from the crowd unlike 90% of the roster today so I would say his promos are underrated if anything.
|
|
Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
|
Post by Boo! on Dec 24, 2014 13:37:05 GMT -5
He actually got reactions from the crowd unlike 90% of the roster today so I would say his promos are underrated if anything. That's if you define good promo by the level of audience participation, which is kind of the point I was making earlier. Now the definition of a good promo is about two lines of content and 7 minutes of crowd chants, + catchphrase repertoire Rollins is actually a good promo in the old fashioned sense of getting the point across as to why he hates B and why he's fighting him at X. But we're in an era now where to be defined as good on the mic you really need to have more catchphrases than fading 70s comedian.
|
|
|
Post by MichaelMartini on Dec 24, 2014 13:42:40 GMT -5
People really need to stop using the word "objectively". We're judging a wrestling promo. Objectively does not exist. The Rock's promos were awful. Yeah, he had great delivery but the content was terrible. He never had anything meaningful to say. In this case it is objective. What is a wrestling promo supposed to do? Get the crowd involved. Whether you like it or not, the crowds were always very responsive to the Rock. He got some of the loudest pops of all time. All you have to do is watch the footage. He would get crowds as pumped as Hogan or Austin. It's a fact.
|
|