|
Post by Mid-Carder on Dec 24, 2014 10:19:57 GMT -5
Dude you nailed it. A year ago all I heard was how solid this kid is and how he SHOULD be pushed to the moon. Now he has heat online? Hasn't he been injured for a while? This reminds me of 03-05. Cena was catching fire and everyone (I'm talking in generality not absolute) was behind him dethroning HHH and JBL. FF to his wrestlemania win and suddenly he is a pariah. It's as though there is a rule somewhere that says anyone successful has to be turned on. I bring this up all the time in Cena discussions because I think people forget that he was the most over guy in the company, entirely on his own talent, and people were begging him to be the next Guy. The problem with Cena, though, was the changes they made to his character after he won. Plus, there wasn't really anybody when Cena took off, whereas there are plenty of guys people would rather have as the Guy ahead of Roman.
|
|
|
Post by cabbageboy on Dec 24, 2014 10:46:14 GMT -5
With Reigns I'm not sure there's much character there to change at the moment. It would be establishing a basic character. The reality of Cena is that the rapper thug gimmick was ultra midcard at best. Not really a main event act. Though people used to the lame, kiddie Cena might be shocked to go back and see how edgy a character he used to be.
I mentioned Dolph earlier but I am unsure of how credible he would be vs. Lesnar. It would almost have to be booked as a fluke if he won.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2014 11:18:44 GMT -5
Is there any evidence that the people who called for Reigns to be pushed to the moon are now the ones decrying him, saying he's not ready for the push he's receiving or are people just playing the 'you smarks' game again? I've always been consistent, Reigns could be a big deal but not if he's pushed at this point in time as he hasn't found his feet as a solo performer. WWE forced main eventer pushes almost always backfire as they don't take the time to let guys build a real connection with the audience, Sheamus and Del Rio spring to mind. I won't take any pleasure in seeing another guy become a main eventer in name only because the WWE had to get them there NOW! ahead of guys that had built a proper connection with the fanbase. I'll freely admit, a year ago I was ready for Reigns to take the world by storm. Since then though we've seen stuff like his shoddy promos, his boring match with Orton, his trainwreck with Bray Wyatt, and his lack of any real character progression and I've realized he's just plain not ready yet. With Reigns I'm not sure there's much character there to change at the moment. It would be establishing a basic character. The reality of Cena is that the rapper thug gimmick was ultra midcard at best. Not really a main event act. Though people used to the lame, kiddie Cena might be shocked to go back and see how edgy a character he used to be. I mentioned Dolph earlier but I am unsure of how credible he would be vs. Lesnar. It would almost have to be booked as a fluke if he won. The comedy rapper thing didn't have much life in it, but they could have left Cena's character a lot more in tact than it was. It'd probably be a very different company right now if they'd kept the thug aspects of the character and made him a wise-ass from the streets who isn't taking anyone's shit instead of making him do the, "Oh, gosh, I don't think I could ever be as good as you, Mr. Triple H," thing they actually did. Also, I buy Dolph beating Lesnar more than I do Reigns. Dolph at least has the heart of a warrior thing going for him; Reigns is supposed to be an unstoppable monster but his moves have less impact than Lesnar's, he's smaller than Lesnar, he's slower than Lesnar, he's nowhere near as physically gifted as Lesnar... I buy somebody completely different from him standing a chance more than I do someone who has all the same sorts of skills but isn't as good at any of them.
|
|
|
Post by EP 54 is banned from Collision on Dec 24, 2014 11:20:21 GMT -5
Didn't UPN refuse having a live Smackdown because they were terrified of them giving Cena a live mic?
Reigns reminds me of pre-'The Rock' Dwayne Johnson. Good look, athletic, too green. His offense looks better than Rocky's did, but it's also much more limited.
|
|
|
Post by Adam Black on Dec 24, 2014 12:01:19 GMT -5
- During the Shield's run, almost all of their six man tags ended with Reigns' spear to the point where I didn't even think Ambrose and Rollins had finishers Lol this is funny to me cause my friends and I used to call Dean Ambrose "Mr.Guy who takes finishers" cause that's the only thing he did until Reigns spears the poor f***er outtanowhere (which was admitedly awesome)
|
|
|
Post by King Devitt: Scrum Guzzler on Dec 24, 2014 13:20:07 GMT -5
My reason is out of the three he's the least ready for the spot they're going to hand to him.
Reminds me of when they were dead set on making Cena "the guy" and they fed him Angle, and Jericho when he wasn't ready and the crowd shit all over him.
Of the three Shield members he's the one that's most ill-equipped to be the number one guy. Give him the IC title at Mania, let him get his feet wet with that and build him like you did Austin and Rock.
I want the guy to succeed, he can, but he needs to improve first. Throwing him into the Title picture while he's still relatively green as a solo act is just foolish.
|
|
|
Post by Slanted and Enchanted on Dec 24, 2014 13:54:41 GMT -5
- During the Shield's run, almost all of their six man tags ended with Reigns' spear to the point where I didn't even think Ambrose and Rollins had finishers - They had him eliminate 4/5 of the race team at Survivor Series to show us how cool and badass he was - They gave him Kane's elimination record to show us how cool and badass he is. - during the feud with the Wyatts, Michael Cole kept referring to the group as "Roman Reigns and the Shield" and kept calling Reigns "the leader of the Shield". - Yes, Reigns only highlight was beating Randy Orton. But here's the thing; one does not simply beat Randy Orton. He's Randy Orton, the guy that Vince and HHH wish was in Cena's spot, but isn't and never will be no matter how many people he RKO's out of nowhere. If they let Reigns beat him, they obviously have plans for the guy. - and now he's feuding with Big Show. Big Show doesn't put over younger talent unless they're one of the chosen ones or being built up to work with one of the top guys. And don't you notice the Roman Mothaf***in Samoan Sex Machine Awesome Badass!!! stuff that the commentators were doing the entire time? Everyone beats Randy Orton lol. Fair enough on all the other points though.
|
|
Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
|
Post by Boo! on Dec 24, 2014 14:01:42 GMT -5
This is like saying "The oddest thing about screaming 'quick get of the way the car is about to hit you' is that the car hasn't hit them yet"
It's not a backlash but seeing what'll happen a mile off with this guy isn't difficult to predict. He's poor on the mic. You can't be a babyface in WWE without being at good on the stick. That's the rule #1. You can be crap in the ring but you need to be able to sell what it is you do. He'll get over, get to be main event level and then fans will get sick of the lack of diversity to his arsenal.
A wooden delivery of "believe dat!" won't see him through until Summerslam. If he hadn't been injured and been single since the break-up of the Shield, what will happen over the coming weeks/months would have happened already. Injury means that they might be lucky to stretch it to Mania
|
|
Dave the Dave
Fry's dog Seymour
Knows too much
Posts: 20,760
Member is Online
|
Post by Dave the Dave on Dec 24, 2014 16:23:40 GMT -5
I'll put it this way. He's not getting a Cena push.
But I don't remember anyone getting injured and being interviewed on TV all the damn time.....unless they were going to come back and try to push them huge.
But I don't mind how he's used. I don't think he's very good. I haven't since the Shield showed up. He's getting better but I'm not seeing his "greatness". And before people say anyone who doesn't like Roman is in some kind of hive mind, I'd argue there are just as many people saying he "just has it". There is no hive. People can think for themselves.
|
|
|
Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 24, 2014 16:28:54 GMT -5
I'll put it this way. He's not getting a Cena push. But I don't remember anyone getting injured and being interviewed on TV all the damn time.....unless they were going to come back and try to push them huge. Well, there was Orton when he was just starting out in 2002, but they were mostly using those segments to turn him heel while he was out injured. Here they were playing it completely straight.
|
|
FAR5222
El Dandy
Counted 237 Bros. SWERVE Got no cookie for it.
Posts: 7,889
|
Post by FAR5222 on Dec 24, 2014 17:15:22 GMT -5
I said in a post back in June that Reigns would be booed by next summer. I never praised him at all. I was indifferent and never spoke negative of Reigns during the Shield run. Most of Reigns' nay sayers like me started throwing jabs here and there after last years Survivor Series. It was right in your face about who was more important in the group when Reigns was the only one to pin CM Punk before he left.
|
|
|
Post by misconduct was wrong on Dec 25, 2014 3:17:27 GMT -5
Dude you nailed it. A year ago all I heard was how solid this kid is and how he SHOULD be pushed to the moon. Now he has heat online? Hasn't he been injured for a while? This reminds me of 03-05. Cena was catching fire and everyone (I'm talking in generality not absolute) was behind him dethroning HHH and JBL. FF to his wrestlemania win and suddenly he is a pariah. It's as though there is a rule somewhere that says anyone successful has to be turned on. I bring this up all the time in Cena discussions because I think people forget that he was the most over guy in the company, entirely on his own talent, and people were begging him to be the next Guy. The problem with Cena, though, was the changes they made to his character after he won. Plus, there wasn't really anybody when Cena took off, whereas there are plenty of guys people would rather have as the Guy ahead of Roman. I was entertained by Cena back then. Never against the push that he got, but was never rreeeeaaaallly a big fan. My only issue is NOT that they changed his character bit by bit, it was that he was completely overexposed. EVERY Raw, highlights on EVERY SD. He was just all over everything wwe did for year after year. I'd get sick of anybody if they did that.
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Dec 25, 2014 3:53:11 GMT -5
It's not really a backlash. The fans just tend to be either mildly interested or apathetic towards him. Reigns got support because he was the cool muscle in an awesome faction. Since then he's been directionless. It's not like he was getting Daniel Bryan type reactions. He gets a pop, but it can vary greatly, ranging from decent to tepid.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2014 4:22:01 GMT -5
Right now, the only thing that Reigns seems to have going for him is the romance novel cover model looks and the lip service he gets on commentary. His offense is F***ING AWESOME for a hot tag, but needs fleshing out for long singles matches. His promos aren't improving as fast as he needs them to be. He's still crazy over, but so are Ambrose and Ziggler and they're ahead of him in the other two things. The poor guy has lost all his momentum because of this hernia he had, and now he's fighting from underneath to get all of it back in the space of a month... in a feud with Big Show. I respect the guy and all he's done for wrestling, but he's a hard guy to have a good feud with. I hope WWE find the right way to push him, because hype backlash or not, he's still got a lot of potential and deserves his fair shot eventually, just like everyone else. What sucks about this Big Show feud is that beating him means so little for Reigns right now. Reigns winning is inevitable, and it should be, but it shouldn't feel like it.
|
|
Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
|
Post by Boo! on Dec 25, 2014 8:10:57 GMT -5
Right now, the only thing that Reigns seems to have going for him is the romance novel cover model looks and the lip service he gets on commentary. His offense is F***ING AWESOME for a hot tag, but needs fleshing out for long singles matches. His promos aren't improving as fast as he needs them to be. He's still crazy over, but so are Ambrose and Ziggler and they're ahead of him in the other two things. The poor guy has lost all his momentum because of this hernia he had, and now he's fighting from underneath to get all of it back in the space of a month... in a feud with Big Show. I respect the guy and all he's done for wrestling, but he's a hard guy to have a good feud with. I hope WWE find the right way to push him, because hype backlash or not, he's still got a lot of potential and deserves his fair shot eventually, just like everyone else. What sucks about this Big Show feud is that beating him means so little for Reigns right now. Reigns winning is inevitable, and it should be, but it shouldn't feel like it. It kinda should. He should destroy the Big Show and even though it's the Big Show and nobody cares about him any more, it'll still be a bit of a rub. All this feud is for is for a tag line "....he beat the Big Show in 3 minutes..." But that's pretty much all the Big Show can offer now. A close-fought, nailbiting contest will do irreparable harm to Reigns' push as he'll have been taken to the wire by someone who probably Michael Cole would be booked to beat 4 times out of 7 these days.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2014 8:12:36 GMT -5
Dean Ambrose has had a much bigger push than reigns as I've said before.
It's not that Reigns is getting a bigger push than either of the other two shield members, they are just pushing him in a more blatant way.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2014 8:14:14 GMT -5
Dean Ambrose has had a much bigger push than reigns as I've said before. It's not that Reigns is getting a bigger push than either of the other two shield members, they are just pushing him in a more blatant way. I dunno, Reigns effortlessly beat the guy Ambrose proved incapable of overcoming no matter how many times he tried, and for that matter Ambrose has been completely incapable of beating just about anybody who matters since the Shield broke up. I feel like the only reason he's been as prominent as he has been was because of the lack of an alternative for Hell in a Cell and now them wanting to keep him prolific so it'll kinda-not-really mean something when Bray keeps beating him over and over.
|
|
Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
|
Post by Boo! on Dec 25, 2014 8:14:41 GMT -5
It's not really a backlash. The fans just tend to be either mildly interested or apathetic towards him. Reigns got support because he was the cool muscle in an awesome faction. Since then he's been directionless. It's not like he was getting Daniel Bryan type reactions. He gets a pop, but it can vary greatly, ranging from decent to tepid. He's over with the live crowd, I think but as we can go over 100 times, that's one indicator of many and probably the least important these days. My worry is how you sustain him. He won't always get the 'fresh back from injury' boost nor will they be able to use him for 3 minutes a show. Once he's in the main event scene and he's given two or three segments of television a week and obliged to show more from his character than 'smouldering look, with muscles' then I think it'll really be a struggle for him to stay connected with the audience.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2014 8:22:22 GMT -5
It's not really a backlash. The fans just tend to be either mildly interested or apathetic towards him. Reigns got support because he was the cool muscle in an awesome faction. Since then he's been directionless. It's not like he was getting Daniel Bryan type reactions. He gets a pop, but it can vary greatly, ranging from decent to tepid. He's over with the live crowd, I think but as we can go over 100 times, that's one indicator of many and probably the least important these days. My worry is how you sustain him. He won't always get the 'fresh back from injury' boost nor will they be able to use him for 3 minutes a show. Once he's in the main event scene and he's given two or three segments of television a week and obliged to show more from his character than 'smouldering look, with muscles' then I think it'll really be a struggle for him to stay connected with the audience. That's one other big issue I have with the idea of the Lesnar feud... Why exactly should we be backing Reigns? If it's Ziggler, sure, it's because he's an underdog who's toiled for years trying to win the big one. If it's Bryan, okay, he got injured and screwed out of the title he worked so hard for without even having actually lost it and indeed has never actually been beaten for it. Ambrose, kind of a weak story there too but at least he's a nutcase who could just decide, "Hey, this guy's really tough, I want to kick his ass," and it's completely in character. Reigns... The story is he gets a title shot because he won the Rumble. That's it. You can do some sneak attacks or something with Lesnar really hurting him, though they probably wouldn't given how seemingly every single time Lesnar gets into a brawl with somebody on Raw he gets his ass kicked and nobody ever gets to stand tall over Reigns because if he gets outshone how will we know what a sexy badass he is, but even then, so what? That's not a story. If you did it where Lesnar loses the title then bumps into Reigns in the hallway and they exchange some words then Brock costs him the Rumble, there's a story, but as it stands, there's nothing and Brock isn't going to show up enough to establish anything. And Heyman isn't really useful for telling a story - he can keep you engaged but his speeches every week aren't going to serve as a plot, and Reigns trying to rebut them is just going to make him look like a buffoon because he can't say more than five words without sounding like someone has a gun to his head. So yeah, I say if you're going to do the thing with Reigns, either have him face Lesnar non-title, have Rollins cash in and work the Shield angle with it (and find a way to get Ambrose in there for a triple threat), or outright bring the off-air story into the forefront, have Cena win the title, and have Reigns explicitly saying he's looking to stampede over him and take his place.
|
|
Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
|
Post by Boo! on Dec 25, 2014 8:27:20 GMT -5
Oh I get the appeal of Lesnar vs Reigns. I won't care for it myself but, to quote the late Gorilla Monsoon, when you pitch the irresistible force meeting the immovable object then it's certainly got huge appeal. Or at least should. WWE will likely have both guys trade wins on TV every week from February onwards and get to WM and nobody will give a crap, but even so.
It's probably the closest thing to a 'dream' match they can do right now. Make Lesnar look like a monster and protect his appearances. Make Reigns look like a monster and shield him from over-exposure - stick the two monsters in the ring and unless you're horribly incompetent you should have a lot of intrigue.
Bigger problem for me is post WM when the "now what?" question is asked of Reigns.
"Believe dat!", mightn't be enough.
|
|