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Post by MrElijah on Dec 26, 2014 18:55:26 GMT -5
But the WWE Title has been defended overseas Against other WWE competitors though. A "World Title" implies they're the best in the entire world, not just that they have the ability to move the same matches to a different location. If the Harlem Globetrotters defeat the Washington Generals in China, then the Trotters aren't suddenly a "WORLD CHAMPION BASKETBALL TEAM." Both Hulk Hogan & Bob Backlund has defended the title in NJPW. Backlund has also been in Title for Title matches against the AWA & NWA world champs.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Dec 26, 2014 18:59:46 GMT -5
World Champion should only be used if the said title is defended in other countries making your champion seen world wide. WWE can call it because they tour the other countries. Now it shouldn't be a World title if you champion or company never leaves the area or state.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 26, 2014 20:11:35 GMT -5
If I started a goofball wrestling fed I would have a Universal Heavyweight Champion. He would beat an alien in his first match.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2014 20:16:52 GMT -5
Against other WWE competitors though. A "World Title" implies they're the best in the entire world, not just that they have the ability to move the same matches to a different location. If the Harlem Globetrotters defeat the Washington Generals in China, then the Trotters aren't suddenly a "WORLD CHAMPION BASKETBALL TEAM." Both Hulk Hogan & Bob Backlund has defended the title in NJPW. Backlund has also been in Title for Title matches against the AWA & NWA world champs. So Japan and America is " the world" now?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2014 23:07:54 GMT -5
Both Hulk Hogan & Bob Backlund has defended the title in NJPW. Backlund has also been in Title for Title matches against the AWA & NWA world champs. So Japan and America is " the world" now? WWE has top wrestlers from various countries on their roster and they have by far the biggest global reach, their top title absolutely should be considered a world title. When you have guys leaving even top promotions in Japan and Mexico to go to WWE while very few people willingly move in the opposite direction, then it doesn't matter if we don't see the WWE champion wrestle guys from other promotions.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Dec 26, 2014 23:11:27 GMT -5
I thought we all agreed a long time ago that only PWI could decide what was or wasn't a World Title... for some reason.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 27, 2014 1:19:44 GMT -5
Both Hulk Hogan & Bob Backlund has defended the title in NJPW. Backlund has also been in Title for Title matches against the AWA & NWA world champs. So Japan and America is " the world" now? That's pretty much the only prerequisite to be a "world title": defend the title outside of the promotion's home country.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 1:28:57 GMT -5
So Japan and America is " the world" now? That's pretty much the only prerequisite to be a "world title": defend the title outside of the promotion's home country. Oof. The bar is pretty low then.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 1:32:24 GMT -5
So Japan and America is " the world" now? WWE has top wrestlers from various countries on their roster and they have by far the biggest global reach, their top title absolutely should be considered a world title. When you have guys leaving even top promotions in Japan and Mexico to go to WWE while very few people willingly move in the opposite direction, then it doesn't matter if we don't see the WWE champion wrestle guys from other promotions. That's a much better argument for calling the WWE title a world title than "they wrestled in Japan a few times." Either way, like I said, its all just carny BS to sell tickets. WWE is just biggest, carniest of them all right now, then and forever.
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Post by 2 time pro bowler Fred Dryer on Dec 27, 2014 1:40:57 GMT -5
Never really understood the problem some people have with A,erican sports leagues using the phrase, "world champions". Let's be honest, here. The team that wins the World Series, Super Bowl, or NBA championship, ARE the best. The Giants aren't losing a seven game series to a Japenese league baseball team, the Seahawks aren't getting beat by one of the six Roughriders in the CFL, and the Spurs would mop the floor with any of the random teams in Europe. (I'm leaving out hockey, but I'm guessing the top tems in the KhL, or elsewhere, aren't on te level of last years LA Kings.)
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Dec 27, 2014 1:44:17 GMT -5
I'd keep calling them 'world' because there is a long history of the top title for a promotion just generally being called the 'world title' or 'world championship.' Calling your promotion's top title the 'world heavyweight title' just signifies to the fans that this is the most top-level title for the promotion. I'd really consider using the term 'Heavyweight' as well, because the most mainstream promotions (WWE and WCW) treated their Light Heavyweight/Cruiserweight Titles as being less important than the top title.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Dec 27, 2014 1:44:34 GMT -5
WWE has top wrestlers from various countries on their roster and they have by far the biggest global reach, their top title absolutely should be considered a world title. When you have guys leaving even top promotions in Japan and Mexico to go to WWE while very few people willingly move in the opposite direction, then it doesn't matter if we don't see the WWE champion wrestle guys from other promotions. That's a much better argument for calling the WWE title a world title than "they wrestled in Japan a few times." Either way, like I said, its all just carny BS to sell tickets. WWE is just biggest, carniest of them all right now, then and forever. I thought the IWC consensus was that Ian Rotten was still the carniest of them all?
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 27, 2014 2:28:34 GMT -5
Never really understood the problem some people have with A,erican sports leagues using the phrase, "world champions". Let's be honest, here. The team that wins the World Series, Super Bowl, or NBA championship, ARE the best. The Giants aren't losing a seven game series to a Japenese league baseball team, the Seahawks aren't getting beat by one of the six Roughriders in the CFL, and the Spurs would mop the floor with any of the random teams in Europe. If a sports league only allows teams from a single country to enter it has no right calling it's top prize a world championship, simple as that. A good example is in football (soccer) the top placed teams in the national leagues compete in a continental tournament, and the winners of those tournaments then compete in an intercontinental tournament. The winners of that tournament can rightfully be called world champions because they've actually beaten the best teams from all the other continents in the world. It's a logical system of competition. Yes, 9 times out of 10 the winning team comes from Europe or South America because that is where the best teams are, but the credibility is found in involving teams from around the entire world. Occasionally the little guy causes an upset. Saying it's okay to call your national champions 'world champions' because you deem the leagues in other countries to not be worthy of stepping onto the same field as you is a laughable argument. All that being said, the real issue is that American sports are niche products outside of North America. It's hard to have a true world championship when the world at large doesn't have any interest in competing. American sports calling their top titles 'world championships' is very much akin to a no-name indie calling it's top title a world title.
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 27, 2014 3:14:50 GMT -5
That's pretty much the only prerequisite to be a "world title": defend the title outside of the promotion's home country. Oof. The bar is pretty low then. Exactly, and if the bar is that low, then it can work for an indy company to call it a "World" Title. Heck, for the small shindies calling it a "World" Title, I could even buy that for the other claim people have made for wrestling/sports here: If they are at a level/enough of a money mark so that they can book talent that is not from the United States in a title match, and can thus claim that wrestlers from foreign countries are challenging, or have challenged, for their top title in the past, then I can allow it if they choose to call their top belt a "World" Title- but it would have to be a reasonable claim to do it (so, for example: If Bumfart, Kentucky Championship Wrestling books, say, Drew Galloway, for one show to challenge "The Highlight" Stevie Steele for the Bumfart Heavyweight Title, then I can allow them claiming it's a World Title from then on. If, say, the booker takes one of the Bumfart, KY Championship Wrestlers and has them put on a Rey Mysterio mask and claims he's "the great Mexican luchador El Hombre de Abejorro", while he's still wearing the tights that the fans recognize as "Sexy Boy" Shawn Storm every other show but this one...no, that won't count.
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Post by 67 more on Dec 27, 2014 3:32:25 GMT -5
ROH is the only indy I accept being a world title (much like the ECW title). Any other indy does not have a world title despite what they claim.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 3:58:09 GMT -5
If GFW ever materializes, complete with working agreements with AAA and NJPW they might have a shot at legitimizing the idea of World title. ROH is the closest otherwise, but still they only cover Japan, America and sort of Canada but I don't think I would count that because they're still challenging in-house guys. But even then if your criteria is such that it doesn't matter if the title travels so long as it's contested against the best of different represented nationalities then ROH is the place.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Dec 27, 2014 7:14:24 GMT -5
Never really understood the problem some people have with A,erican sports leagues using the phrase, "world champions". Let's be honest, here. The team that wins the World Series, Super Bowl, or NBA championship, ARE the best. The Giants aren't losing a seven game series to a Japenese league baseball team, the Seahawks aren't getting beat by one of the six Roughriders in the CFL, and the Spurs would mop the floor with any of the random teams in Europe. (I'm leaving out hockey, but I'm guessing the top tems in the KhL, or elsewhere, aren't on te level of last years LA Kings.) Because they aren't world champions. They might well be the best team in the world, but you can't be world champions by winning a national league. There is no such thing as the 'World Championships of American Football", so there can be no world champions. I've never understood why American sports feel the need to add that bit on. Isn't being able to call yourselves NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB champions good enough? On the wrestling front, I think people are coming at this the wrong way. It's irrelevant how many countries your belt is defended in. If it's theoretically open to everybody in the world, then it's a world title.
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 27, 2014 8:07:21 GMT -5
Never really understood the problem some people have with A,erican sports leagues using the phrase, "world champions". Let's be honest, here. The team that wins the World Series, Super Bowl, or NBA championship, ARE the best. The Giants aren't losing a seven game series to a Japenese league baseball team, the Seahawks aren't getting beat by one of the six Roughriders in the CFL, and the Spurs would mop the floor with any of the random teams in Europe. (I'm leaving out hockey, but I'm guessing the top tems in the KhL, or elsewhere, aren't on te level of last years LA Kings.) Because they aren't world champions. They might well be the best team in the world, but you can't be world champions by winning a national league. There is no such thing as the 'World Championships of American Football", so there can be no world champions. I've never understood why American sports feel the need to add that bit on. Isn't being able to call yourselves NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB champions good enough? Again, if the league in sports is the top league and the one foreign stars try to go to to really prove they made it, that does give a case- much like the WWE has its case by top foreign talent coming there to really prove themselves, the American leagues there can say "World Championships for those leagues." And on the same token- even if it's claimed that's not enough for other sports: Everyone claiming "the American leagues don't count because its not world titles!" know in their heart, if the MLS Cup-winning LA Galaxy managed to upset Real Madrid, you'd claim "Fluke! It's a fluke! Real Madrid are still the world champs because they won the Champions' League!"
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Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Dec 27, 2014 8:10:02 GMT -5
I could see it from 2 points of view
One will be if said Indy from smallville whatever state doesn't recognize other organizations as the legitimate world champions, then their champion IS the world champion. Is like boxing that had like 6 organizations, with hundreds of world champions.
Now, if you look it at a semi kayfabe/shoot point of view, if you ecognize the WWE or NJPW as the top of the world, then those 2 are the only world heavyweight champions, because lots of indies had mentioned said companies as their final goal as a wrestler
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 27, 2014 8:26:06 GMT -5
Because they aren't world champions. They might well be the best team in the world, but you can't be world champions by winning a national league. There is no such thing as the 'World Championships of American Football", so there can be no world champions. I've never understood why American sports feel the need to add that bit on. Isn't being able to call yourselves NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB champions good enough? Again, if the league in sports is the top league and the one foreign stars try to go to to really prove they made it, that does give a case- much like the WWE has its case by top foreign talent coming there to really prove themselves, the American leagues there can say "World Championships for those leagues." This would be fine if it were based on individual achievements. It's not. The American leagues are open to American-based teams only, and therefore cannot legitimately claim to be crowning a world championship-winning team. Not at all. In that scenario Real Madrid may be the better team, but they're still not the world champions. Italy weren't the best team at the 2006 World Cup, but they were still the champions at the end of it.
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