Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 18:47:26 GMT -5
There is no mainstream alternative for viewers or wrestlers in 2014, which is why I think it is worse than WCW in 2000. That is not really fair to use though, is it? That's like saying you think a pizza is worse than it actually is because a Subway sandwich is no longer for sale. The pizza is still the same. WWE 2014 is in no way the worst option, lol.
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Dec 27, 2014 18:49:22 GMT -5
WCW 2000
as bad as this year has been (And it's been REALLY bad) Mania, Summerslam & SS main event was better than ANYTHING WCW 2000 did.
But honestly WCW 2000 was entertainingly bad, WWE 2014 when it was bad (Outside of 2 PPVs & a main event) was so Boring you couldn't even mock it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 18:52:32 GMT -5
I don't know it's also an argument of desperate, relentless scratching and clawing in the face of imminent death of WCW 2000 against WWE's refusal to try in 2010-2014. WCW 2000 was on paper far worse than WWE is now, but that doesn't mean that I'd rather wather watch WWE. At least WCW is a real spectacle of shit, I'd rather watch them dive head first into a toilet than watch WWE sit on its hands. Out of interest, were you watching at the time? I was a WCW mark first and foremost and as entertaining as that stuff is in hindsight, at the time I was watching my wrestling company of choice slowly dying. Yessir I was definitely watching at the time. Of course I was much younger then and it didn't really occur to me, the stark reality of WCW's situation. I was mostly a WWE guy and WCW was just that weird uncle that you can sit back and watch from a distance all the wacky hijinks he's getting wrapped up into. To me it's just much more frustrating to see a company that lived through the Monday Night War, documented the experience numerous times, detailing the successes and failures, should know better, but are making the same old stupid mistakes they never let WCW forget (feverishly sticking to the old guard, giving away main events, politics up and down). WCW/TNA I don't hold to the same standard because they're notoriously disorganized, ran by dunderheads and pretty much got what they deserved in the end. With WWE it feels like they want to fail and that's killing me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 18:54:03 GMT -5
WCW 2000 really had to be witnessed live to believe. Holy shit was that a Mongolian clusterf***.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 27, 2014 19:04:50 GMT -5
Out of interest, were you watching at the time? I was a WCW mark first and foremost and as entertaining as that stuff is in hindsight, at the time I was watching my wrestling company of choice slowly dying. Yessir I was definitely watching at the time. Of course I was much younger then and it didn't really occur to me, the stark reality of WCW's situation. I was mostly a WWE guy and WCW was just that weird uncle that you can sit back and watch from a distance all the wacky hijinks he's getting wrapped up into. To me it's just much more frustrating to see a company that lived through the Monday Night War, documented the experience numerous times, detailing the successes and failures, should know better, but are making the same old stupid mistakes they never let WCW forget (feverishly sticking to the old guard, giving away main events, politics up and down). WCW/TNA I don't hold to the same standard because they're notoriously disorganized, ran by dunderheads and pretty much got what they deserved in the end. With WWE it feels like they want to fail and that's killing me. Man if you watched through it and still pick this year, then I'm down with that. I just feel like anyone who wasn't watching at the time doesn't have the most solid ground to stand on when you can easily watch that shit and go 'lol Russo' without living it week to week. For you WCW was a weird uncle. For me it was a beloved father figure dying on life support slowly over two years, then rallying for a few months before suddenly passing away.
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Post by Fearless The Tank on Dec 27, 2014 19:09:48 GMT -5
This year has sucked, but at least there were some good matches and some good moments that we can talk about. WCW at the end of its lifespan had none, no good matches and no good moments.
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Dec 27, 2014 19:27:10 GMT -5
At least this year consistently has had good matches, even if they were surrounded by frustrating booking or completely ignored altogether. WCW in 2000 not only had shit booking, but the matches were the short, crash TV, overbooked, Russo disasters. There is a booked finish in a WCW 2000 match where Goldberg walks out because he doesn't agree with the scripted finish. The rest of the year could be the greatest wrestling can possibly be, and it would still be the one of worst years ever for that alone. I know outside of the ring it has been a pretty damaging year, but at least none of their active talents died (1997, 2005, 2007), there weren't any large legal scandals (1992, 1994) and they didn't have to screw over a top star in the ring to get the booking they wanted (1997). Those are far worse than any of the outside the ring fiascoes they've encountered this year. There is no mainstream alternative for viewers or wrestlers in 2014, which is why I think it is worse than WCW in 2000. Although I will say this is a fair argument. At least while WCW was going down in a blaze of embarrassment, the WWF was having arguably its best year creatively in its history.
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Psychoblue
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Post by Psychoblue on Dec 27, 2014 19:50:58 GMT -5
This year has been pretty bad, especially following the rash of untimely injuries from anyone who might have been a fresh face or entertaining, but WWE is clearly in rebuilding mode right now. So many of the guys that were main event level or ready to be slid into a main event as needed left or got hurt, and those that left did so on horrible terms. Now that the roster is very slowly returning from the DL, they can start building up the next crop and figure things out from there. It's going to be a process, but I can understand why this year has been as bad as it's been.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Dec 27, 2014 19:52:27 GMT -5
If you didn't know anything about backstage stuff, interviews, business etc, 2014 hasn't been anywhere near as bad as it's being made out to be. Plenty of excellent wrestling, some superb PPVs, inconsistent TV shows but plenty of good stuff going on
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 19:54:57 GMT -5
... some of the things you listed in the OP weren't bad. I literally lol'd at Brock destroying Cena being listed as a bad thing. This thread will absolutely show the division between people who were old enough to remember (and actually watched) WCW in 2000 compared to those who have just read about it. Like I said, I can't grasp anyone besides those in the latter category thinking that WWE 2014 is worse.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 27, 2014 20:09:40 GMT -5
lol
Nothing is worse than the last 3 years of WCW
If you're voting for anything else, you're mad.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 20:42:52 GMT -5
I have to assume that the WWE 2010 voters are the same people who voted in other polls saying that they wanted to see Hulk Hogan vs El Torito and John Cena vs Diego at WM 31.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Dec 28, 2014 5:29:28 GMT -5
WCW 2000 was so bad that it killed the company outright. I don't think that fact can be underscored enough.
That product was so bad that the company that put that programming out died in the next quarter, sold for pocket change to the guy that just put on WWE 2014.
WCW in 2000 couldn't even draw 7000 fans to Starrcade, their supposedly biggest PPV of the year. WWE can get 50,000 to instantly spend thousands of dollars to go to whatever baseball stadium they decide to hold Wrestlemania, months before anyone knows who's going to be facing whom for what title.
WWE 2014 certainly is far from perfect, but both financially and critically, the bar was set astonishingly low 15 years ago.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Dec 28, 2014 6:05:17 GMT -5
WCW 2000 was worse. Hell WWE 2014 wasn't even in the same category of bad as TNA 2014.
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wcc2
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Post by wcc2 on Dec 28, 2014 6:27:29 GMT -5
I'm amazed at how every year is apparently awful, the product is terrible and the company apparently wants to fail, when actually as a business it is doing absolutely fine. People use the 'and the company wonders why they are in such trouble now' line about every year since 2001.
There's something weird about how people perceive the current main roster product. It has it's good points and it's bad points, largely because they have to throw a lot at the wall to fill 6 hours (plus Superstars) of story driven narrative per week, plus PPVs each month. That means some things will work and some won't, but it's always been that way. Some years will be better, but it's hardly ever been universal that certain years are terrible, and indicitive of how the business is suddenly terrible too. I love NXT, but really it uses a lot of the same devices as on the main show, it just has the advantages of appearing fresher.
I watched from September 1999 to just after Backlash 2003, then took a break until Wrestlemania 23. I also took another break from mid 2012 until December 2013. In that time I've seen things both as a young fan that thinks everything is great, through to bring a jaded smark. 2000 to me was a great year, and I even loved 2001. I was pretty stunned to discover the IWC and that it was treated as an awful angle. My interest started waning in 2002 and in 2003 it went.
With that in mind, I came back in 2007 but couldn't believe how bad I thought it was compared to 2000. The roster seemed so thin, the crowds seemed so quiet, the stories seemed very basic. But it piqued my curiosity to see how Cena had progressed to be this era's Austin. And actually, I saw as the years progressed the company improving every year. 2008 to me was better than 2007, more talent, better creative, a far improved Wrestlemania that year. 2009 to me was the rise of CM Punk and Jeff Hardy as true main eventers, if I'm honest I don't remember much of Raw though. 2010, the Nexus, the rise of the Miz, a fantastic Wrestlemania highlighted by HBK's obsession with the Undertaker. 2011, pipe bomb Punk, MITB, The Rock returning. 2012 I drifted again but I wouldn't say it was because the product was noticeably worse, certainly not than 2007. I had also looked back on say 2006 and that years' Wrestlemania, and couldn't believe what they considered worthy to put out.
Back in 2013 and 2014 I see a roster full of depth, putting on great matches week after week and the crowd giving some of the largest reactions to a lot of new main eventers. Does everything hit 100% of the time? No, but it's obvious why it doesn't. For one its wrestling, and if you want genius well paced story telling, break out your box sets of Mad Men or Breaking Bad. Appreciate wrestling for what it is. This isn't to say love everything and excuse all the rubbish, simply to understand that there inevitably will be rubbish among a lot of good stuff, because they have so much time to fill, so much talent to utilise, and not much time to write good creative if they are going to fulfil their event schedules. But that's ok. They are doing really well, and I would agree with the general sentiment that they are nowhere near as bad as WCW 2000. For all WWEs faults, they at least consistency each year put on matches and feuds that make sense, and build new stars consistently.
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Madagascar Fred
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Dec 28, 2014 11:11:37 GMT -5
I went through WCW 1999 and saw most of it and it was BORING AND STALE AND RETARDED AS ALL HEAVEN AND HELL!!! then Russo came, had some truly awful ideas and went with them, at least it was watchable under a trainwreck aspect (PIÑATA!!!)
WCW 2000 wasn't better, lets just leave it at that (I gave up halfway through)
be very glad if you didnt live through those years
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Post by Andy Martin on Dec 28, 2014 11:44:31 GMT -5
WCW 2000 was the worst thing, wrestling wise I've ever seen.
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wakko
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Post by wakko on Dec 28, 2014 11:47:30 GMT -5
Besides some of the chaos that went on in the summer, I enjoyed the new guys on rising of some stars in WCW 2000.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 28, 2014 14:10:14 GMT -5
Besides some of the chaos that went on in the summer, I enjoyed the new guys on rising of some stars in WCW 2000. To be fair, late 2000 and early 2001 you could see WCW creatively getting back to its feet.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 28, 2014 14:31:34 GMT -5
What's worse, when someone spills something on your white shirt or when somebody steps on your new Jordans
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