ERON
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,773
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Post by ERON on Jan 3, 2015 21:42:02 GMT -5
That Charlie Brown special where Lucy keeps pulling the ball away from him during an actual football game, and everyone blames Charlie Brown for missing the kicks even though it is clearly Lucy's fault.
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unc40
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,625
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Post by unc40 on Jan 3, 2015 23:22:05 GMT -5
King of the Hill (Church Hopping)- Hank Hill blackmailing the church minister into letting him have his own personal pew at church and getting away with it.
M.A.S.H. - In the movie Frank Burns was a hypocrite but he had every right to beat the crap out Hawkeye for making those obscene comments about Houlihan.
Honeymooners - Ralph may have had some crazy get rich quick schemes but at least he was trying to make their lives better but Alice just had to crap all over them. Some of them weren't that bad of an idea like the apple peeler.
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Post by The Shareholder is nude on Jan 3, 2015 23:44:26 GMT -5
Evangelion....how the !$@^@ am I supposed to feel ANY sympathy for Shinji when he is a whiny selfish complaining little jerk who is all "oh everyone hates me" "oh i am so useless I will just let third impact happen and let billions die because i have daddy issues"
GET IN THE @$!^@&@ MECH SHINJI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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andrew8798
FANatic
on 24/7 this month
Posts: 106,081
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Post by andrew8798 on Jan 3, 2015 23:51:05 GMT -5
The main character in Distinct 9
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ayumidah
Wade Wilson
The ace-iest bi you'll ever meet
Posts: 26,583
Member is Online
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Post by ayumidah on Jan 4, 2015 3:53:57 GMT -5
The BBC show Worst Week of My Life's existence is based on this trope, almost to caricature levels. So is Charlie Brown's character. Nicole from Days Of Our Lives has been this. Now I have only been watching it for like a year or so, so my understanding is she was once a villainess of some type, but now she comes off to me more as a bad girl with a heart, so it is bothersome that she gets the brunt of a lot of people's wraths. (Well that and Ari Zucker is hot ;-)) I feel so bad for Nicole, haha. Yeah, she's done some shady stuff (I've been watching close to five years and some of the things she's done pre-dates even that) but geez... people in that town are so judgmental/nosy, it kills me. Of course I'm biased towards Ari Zucker as well, so...
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,115
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Jan 4, 2015 5:23:07 GMT -5
How was Oliver Platt the jerk in 2012?
He was pretty much right about everything.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 4, 2015 7:04:52 GMT -5
Two examples from Star Trek TNG The doctor who killed the Crystalline Entity. She was right to do it. Picard's analogy about whales and cuttlefish was disgraceful. The admiral who was developing a Federation cloaking device was correct. Starfleet were insane to sign a treaty agreeing not to use them. Admiral Dougherty in ST: Insurrection. The cure to absolutely every disease imaginable and a way to at least double lifespans, and Picard stops it because it involves relocating a single village from a planet they're not even native to? Janeway's actions in the Voyager pilot also.
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Jan 4, 2015 8:23:54 GMT -5
Then there's the opposite side, where the guilty person does receive some form of punishment for their actions, but immediately afterward are made to look so sympathetic that everyone else feels guilty about it and ends up apologizing to them instead of the other way around like it should have been. Jaime Lannister pretty much embodies this. "Oh no! I've lost my hand! Everybody feel sorry for me now! Besides, I'm telling you that I'm a misunderstood hero and if I say it then it MUST be true!" Well, that sure makes up for f***ing your sister next door to her husband, thus endangering your entire family, attempting to murder a child in order to cover up said sister-f***ing, killing people left and right for your own gain. Oh but you killed the Mad King? Too bad you spent years protecting him beforehand, therefore allowing him to keep killing anyone who opposed him, including people who had been trying to kill him before you did, and isn't it convenient how your change of heart came just as it became obvious that you'd get killed if you had to face his enemies? Oh and I almost forgot that the aforementioned sister-f***ing led to Joffrey's birth, making you directly responsible for yet more massacres. And on that subject, nice job heroically raping your sister in front of her and your child's corpse. But hey, he lost a hand and tells people they should love him, so truly he is a hero. Man, f*** this guy; even by Westeros standards he's scum and the fact that Brienne of all people ends up going all doe-eyed about him is one of the things that seriously piss me off about Game of Thrones (and yes, I do realize he saved her life so I could see her being more forgiving of him, but there's a difference between that and her doing a complete 180 and immediately buying his "admire me because I tell you to" BS). The player character in GTA, especially when he/I is being chased down by the popo. We are totally in the wrong I dunno, when they immediately start gunning me down for scraping the paint on their car, I don't feel like I'm in the wrong for defending myself. I'm not even an unarmed Black teen!
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 16,876
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Post by BRV on Jan 4, 2015 10:13:54 GMT -5
I wrote the following back in 2013, but it still holds true today, as in the movie "Heavyweights", Tony Perkis (Ben Stiller) is wrongly viewed as the villain, whereas Harvey Bushkin (Jerry Stiller) is cast as the sympathetic hero.
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JDviant
Unicron
XB1 username: lil giant robot
Posts: 3,103
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Post by JDviant on Jan 4, 2015 11:03:31 GMT -5
Speaking of the love triangle thing, there's a car commercial thats all about someone breaking up a wedding. We know none of the characters at all, so the guy running off with the bride while the groom tries to catch them (but doesn't because he stops to avoid hitting a dog) makes me want to buy the car the random guy drives why?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 11:14:54 GMT -5
Then there's the opposite side, where the guilty person does receive some form of punishment for their actions, but immediately afterward are made to look so sympathetic that everyone else feels guilty about it and ends up apologizing to them instead of the other way around like it should have been. Jaime Lannister pretty much embodies this. "Oh no! I've lost my hand! Everybody feel sorry for me now! Besides, I'm telling you that I'm a misunderstood hero and if I say it then it MUST be true!" Well, that sure makes up for f***ing your sister next door to her husband, thus endangering your entire family, attempting to murder a child in order to cover up said sister-f***ing, killing people left and right for your own gain. Oh but you killed the Mad King? Too bad you spent years protecting him beforehand, therefore allowing him to keep killing anyone who opposed him, including people who had been trying to kill him before you did, and isn't it convenient how your change of heart came just as it became obvious that you'd get killed if you had to face his enemies? Oh and I almost forgot that the aforementioned sister-f***ing led to Joffrey's birth, making you directly responsible for yet more massacres. And on that subject, nice job heroically raping your sister in front of her and your child's corpse. But hey, he lost a hand and tells people they should love him, so truly he is a hero. Man, f*** this guy; even by Westeros standards he's scum and the fact that Brienne of all people ends up going all doe-eyed about him is one of the things that seriously piss me off about Game of Thrones (and yes, I do realize he saved her life so I could see her being more forgiving of him, but there's a difference between that and her doing a complete 180 and immediately buying his "admire me because I tell you to" BS). On the opposite side in GoT, we've got Ser Jorah Mormont, who faithfully served Daeny without hesitation, protected her and constantly gave her good advice. Then he gets kicked to the curb for spying on her before, and no one stands up for him. No one even questions the authenticity of the letter that ends up getting recovered. They're just immediately all "Jorah did it!" and that's it, he's an exile. Meanwhile Dario, who was earlier hired to kill Targaryen, almost slits Daeny's handmaiden's throat and threatens to do so if not immediately given an opportunity to join the team. But because he's a "Dashing rogue" character, everyone gives him a free pass and Jorah is the only person who is even a tiny bit suspicious despite the fact that the guy reeks of bad intentions and no one has any reason to trust him. I don't think the Jorah betrayal thing is so glaringly bad in and of itself, but when coupled with Dario getting the exact opposite treatment, is just tremendously bad writing in an otherwise good story.
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Jan 4, 2015 11:30:25 GMT -5
Jaime Lannister pretty much embodies this. "Oh no! I've lost my hand! Everybody feel sorry for me now! Besides, I'm telling you that I'm a misunderstood hero and if I say it then it MUST be true!" Well, that sure makes up for f***ing your sister next door to her husband, thus endangering your entire family, attempting to murder a child in order to cover up said sister-f***ing, killing people left and right for your own gain. Oh but you killed the Mad King? Too bad you spent years protecting him beforehand, therefore allowing him to keep killing anyone who opposed him, including people who had been trying to kill him before you did, and isn't it convenient how your change of heart came just as it became obvious that you'd get killed if you had to face his enemies? Oh and I almost forgot that the aforementioned sister-f***ing led to Joffrey's birth, making you directly responsible for yet more massacres. And on that subject, nice job heroically raping your sister in front of her and your child's corpse. But hey, he lost a hand and tells people they should love him, so truly he is a hero. Man, f*** this guy; even by Westeros standards he's scum and the fact that Brienne of all people ends up going all doe-eyed about him is one of the things that seriously piss me off about Game of Thrones (and yes, I do realize he saved her life so I could see her being more forgiving of him, but there's a difference between that and her doing a complete 180 and immediately buying his "admire me because I tell you to" BS). On the opposite side in GoT, we've got Ser Jorah Mormont, who faithfully served Daeny without hesitation, protected her and constantly gave her good advice. Then he gets kicked to the curb for spying on her before, and no one stands up for him. No one even questions the authenticity of the letter that ends up getting recovered. They're just immediately all "Jorah did it!" and that's it, he's an exile. Meanwhile Dario, who was earlier hired to kill Targaryen, almost slits Daeny's handmaiden's throat and threatens to do so if not immediately given an opportunity to join the team. But because he's a "Dashing rogue" character, everyone gives him a free pass and Jorah is the only person who is even a tiny bit suspicious despite the fact that the guy reeks of bad intentions and no one has any reason to trust him. I don't think the Jorah betrayal thing is so glaringly bad in and of itself, but when coupled with Dario getting the exact opposite treatment, is just tremendously bad writing in an otherwise good story. To be fair, I feel Jorah's fate is supposed to be tragic. We the audience are meant to sympathize with him because he was unfairly punished despite genuinely trying to do good. I am also under the impression that this and Daenery being surprisingly forgiving of Dario are all supposed to show that despite her trying to be a wise, fair and reasonable leader, Daenery is still wildly inexperienced and is still an impulsive teenager who acts more on instincts than on reason.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 11:45:33 GMT -5
On the opposite side in GoT, we've got Ser Jorah Mormont, who faithfully served Daeny without hesitation, protected her and constantly gave her good advice. Then he gets kicked to the curb for spying on her before, and no one stands up for him. No one even questions the authenticity of the letter that ends up getting recovered. They're just immediately all "Jorah did it!" and that's it, he's an exile. Meanwhile Dario, who was earlier hired to kill Targaryen, almost slits Daeny's handmaiden's throat and threatens to do so if not immediately given an opportunity to join the team. But because he's a "Dashing rogue" character, everyone gives him a free pass and Jorah is the only person who is even a tiny bit suspicious despite the fact that the guy reeks of bad intentions and no one has any reason to trust him. I don't think the Jorah betrayal thing is so glaringly bad in and of itself, but when coupled with Dario getting the exact opposite treatment, is just tremendously bad writing in an otherwise good story. To be fair, I feel Jorah's fate is supposed to be tragic. We the audience are meant to sympathize with him because he was unfairly punished despite genuinely trying to do good. I am also under the impression that this and Daenery being surprisingly forgiving of Dario are all supposed to show that despite her trying to be a wise, fair and reasonable leader, Daenery is still wildly inexperienced and is still an impulsive teenager who acts more on instincts than on reason. My problem isn't so much Jorah getting booted out, but they way they wrote it, it makes no sense. Why did Daeny and the entire court do a total 180 for someone who is less trustworthy and more dangerous? If Jorah was spying, why didn't anyone suggest to keep tabs on him and watch what he was doing? Jorah saved her from an assassination so he's obviously not trying to kill her. Like, basic logic here. In Mass Effect 2, if your Shepard accuses Miranda of trying to kill him at the beginning of the game, you're promptly shut down by everyone for being an idiot. Because obviously, why would the person who spent two years resurrecting you try to assassinate you immediately afterwards? Same basic deal here. Jorah already had a chance to let that happen and straight-up foiled it. So if he's not trying to kill her, what can he do then? What is there to worry about? Report to someone and provide intel? Why not try to uncover the spy network? Why not keep tabs on him to make sure he isn't spying? If they had brought him before her and he lied and said he wasn't spying, what was going to happen? Was the whole court going to kick him out because of something on a piece of paper? My problem with it doesn't have much to do with Daenerys. It's got far more to do with guys like Barristan just standing there with their heads up their butts instead of saying anything. Does no one have an opinion? Does no one care? Every other court in the show has got some intrigue going on.
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Goldenbane
Hank Scorpio
THE G.D. Goldenbane
Posts: 7,331
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Post by Goldenbane on Jan 4, 2015 12:25:13 GMT -5
Then there's the opposite side, where the guilty person does receive some form of punishment for their actions, but immediately afterward are made to look so sympathetic that everyone else feels guilty about it and ends up apologizing to them instead of the other way around like it should have been. Jaime Lannister pretty much embodies this. "Oh no! I've lost my hand! Everybody feel sorry for me now! Besides, I'm telling you that I'm a misunderstood hero and if I say it then it MUST be true!" Well, that sure makes up for f***ing your sister next door to her husband, thus endangering your entire family, attempting to murder a child in order to cover up said sister-f***ing, killing people left and right for your own gain. Oh but you killed the Mad King? Too bad you spent years protecting him beforehand, therefore allowing him to keep killing anyone who opposed him, including people who had been trying to kill him before you did, and isn't it convenient how your change of heart came just as it became obvious that you'd get killed if you had to face his enemies? Oh and I almost forgot that the aforementioned sister-f***ing led to Joffrey's birth, making you directly responsible for yet more massacres. And on that subject, nice job heroically raping your sister in front of her and your child's corpse. But hey, he lost a hand and tells people they should love him, so truly he is a hero. Man, f*** this guy; even by Westeros standards he's scum and the fact that Brienne of all people ends up going all doe-eyed about him is one of the things that seriously piss me off about Game of Thrones (and yes, I do realize he saved her life so I could see her being more forgiving of him, but there's a difference between that and her doing a complete 180 and immediately buying his "admire me because I tell you to" BS). Hey now, in the books, Jaime Lannister heroically f***ing his sister in front of their child's corpse was totally consensual! You also forgot the part about Jaime totally screwing up Tyrion's life, because for some reason Tywin didn't like that woman he married. As far as Jorah Mormont is concerned, I think he just always gets the short end of the stick and people always over react to him doing "wrong." Oh no, Jorah sold a bunch of poachers into slavery! That bastard, what's he going to do next, behead a rapist? That doctor though, in Star Trek TNG...yeah, I can't help but completely be on her side. That creature was going around wiping out ENTIRE f***ING PLANETS and Picard wants to save it? Hey baldy, what happened to the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few? How many endangered species did this "endangered species" wipe out before the doctor finally ended it's stupid crystalline ass? And what do you really know about that creature anyway? Maybe it's science made by some war like race many years ago, maybe there's a sector out there filled with these dangerous f***s. Don't jump down the doc's throat, when remember how quick were to you judge the borg, idiot?
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,037
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 4, 2015 12:44:01 GMT -5
Then there's the opposite side, where the guilty person does receive some form of punishment for their actions, but immediately afterward are made to look so sympathetic that everyone else feels guilty about it and ends up apologizing to them instead of the other way around like it should have been. Jaime Lannister pretty much embodies this. "Oh no! I've lost my hand! Everybody feel sorry for me now! Besides, I'm telling you that I'm a misunderstood hero and if I say it then it MUST be true!" Well, that sure makes up for f***ing your sister next door to her husband, thus endangering your entire family, attempting to murder a child in order to cover up said sister-f***ing, killing people left and right for your own gain. Oh but you killed the Mad King? Too bad you spent years protecting him beforehand, therefore allowing him to keep killing anyone who opposed him, including people who had been trying to kill him before you did, and isn't it convenient how your change of heart came just as it became obvious that you'd get killed if you had to face his enemies? Oh and I almost forgot that the aforementioned sister-f***ing led to Joffrey's birth, making you directly responsible for yet more massacres. And on that subject, nice job heroically raping your sister in front of her and your child's corpse. But hey, he lost a hand and tells people they should love him, so truly he is a hero. Man, f*** this guy; even by Westeros standards he's scum and the fact that Brienne of all people ends up going all doe-eyed about him is one of the things that seriously piss me off about Game of Thrones (and yes, I do realize he saved her life so I could see her being more forgiving of him, but there's a difference between that and her doing a complete 180 and immediately buying his "admire me because I tell you to" BS). The player character in GTA, especially when he/I is being chased down by the popo. We are totally in the wrong I dunno, when they immediately start gunning me down for scraping the paint on their car, I don't feel like I'm in the wrong for defending myself. I'm not even an unarmed Black teen! I think Jaime's still definitely a villain, but to be fair to him throwing Bran, it's worth noting what would have happened if he didn't. All three of his children/niece and nephews would likely have been killed or otherwise had their lives destroyed. Robert Barratheon was a VERY vindictive man, and showed no real hesitation in killing children before that endangered his thrown and legacy. Dollars to donuts, what would have happened if he found out, Cersei and Jaime would be killed, Joffrey maybe sent to the wall, if not killed, and possibly the daughter would be sent to a nunnery, maybe. Youngest kid wouldn't fare much better, because they would be obstacles to the plan already in place to potentially wed Robert to Margaery. It's not even an excuse after the fact, either, given Jaime is well aware of the precarious position royalty can be in and Robert's wrath. So, while what he did was reprehensible, it is also something quite a few of the other characters would have done in his shoes, even if his own hubris to perform the act with his sister in unfriendly territory is what got him into the mess to begin with.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 4, 2015 13:05:03 GMT -5
How was Oliver Platt the jerk in 2012? He was pretty much right about everything. The best part is when they start letting people onto the boat who didn't have tickets, the gate breaks, they fix it and someone dies in the process, and start celebrating, at which point Platt points out 'Congratulations on solving the problem that you caused.' Incorrect blame for me: Any authority figure in any movie who has to choose between a small amount of deaths and a lot of deaths, and chooses the former, rather than trying to find some magical, pie-in-the-sky third option. Being in authority is hard, being in government is hard, and difficult decisions sometimes have to be made. If you tried to go for the crazy third option every single f***ing time you would be shitty at your job because 99% of the time it'd not come off.
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Jan 4, 2015 14:30:06 GMT -5
Jaime Lannister pretty much embodies this. "Oh no! I've lost my hand! Everybody feel sorry for me now! Besides, I'm telling you that I'm a misunderstood hero and if I say it then it MUST be true!" Well, that sure makes up for f***ing your sister next door to her husband, thus endangering your entire family, attempting to murder a child in order to cover up said sister-f***ing, killing people left and right for your own gain. Oh but you killed the Mad King? Too bad you spent years protecting him beforehand, therefore allowing him to keep killing anyone who opposed him, including people who had been trying to kill him before you did, and isn't it convenient how your change of heart came just as it became obvious that you'd get killed if you had to face his enemies? Oh and I almost forgot that the aforementioned sister-f***ing led to Joffrey's birth, making you directly responsible for yet more massacres. And on that subject, nice job heroically raping your sister in front of her and your child's corpse. But hey, he lost a hand and tells people they should love him, so truly he is a hero. Man, f*** this guy; even by Westeros standards he's scum and the fact that Brienne of all people ends up going all doe-eyed about him is one of the things that seriously piss me off about Game of Thrones (and yes, I do realize he saved her life so I could see her being more forgiving of him, but there's a difference between that and her doing a complete 180 and immediately buying his "admire me because I tell you to" BS). I dunno, when they immediately start gunning me down for scraping the paint on their car, I don't feel like I'm in the wrong for defending myself. I'm not even an unarmed Black teen! I think Jaime's still definitely a villain, but to be fair to him throwing Bran, it's worth noting what would have happened if he didn't. All three of his children/niece and nephews would likely have been killed or otherwise had their lives destroyed. Robert Barratheon was a VERY vindictive man, and showed no real hesitation in killing children before that endangered his thrown and legacy. Dollars to donuts, what would have happened if he found out, Cersei and Jaime would be killed, Joffrey maybe sent to the wall, if not killed, and possibly the daughter would be sent to a nunnery, maybe. Youngest kid wouldn't fare much better, because they would be obstacles to the plan already in place to potentially wed Robert to Margaery. It's not even an excuse after the fact, either, given Jaime is well aware of the precarious position royalty can be in and Robert's wrath. So, while what he did was reprehensible, it is also something quite a few of the other characters would have done in his shoes, even if his own hubris to perform the act with his sister in unfriendly territory is what got him into the mess to begin with. That's my point! None of this would have happened had he not decided to screw his won sister next door to the king, showing that he has no problem endangering his family so he can get some incestuous pootang. It's not a heroic deed to do something evil to cover up another evil thing you did! And I really don't get the "it's nothing other characters wouldn't have done" excuse as the other characters who would have been likely to do something like that don't get glorified like Jaime does, they don't do the rest of the awful shit Jaime does on top of that and come to think of it, I'm pretty sure even most of the downright evil characters would not cross the "screw your own sister" line, at least not in a way that puts their entire family at risk.
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Post by Rumble McSkirmish on Jan 4, 2015 14:46:04 GMT -5
Admiral Dougherty in ST: Insurrection. The cure to absolutely every disease imaginable and a way to at least double lifespans, and Picard stops it because it involves relocating a single village from a planet they're not even native to? Even the Paramount executives said that plot was pretty asinine. Yes when people who have a reputation of destroying the creative process rightly point your idea isn't that good for the reasons outlined above, you should have went back to the drawing board.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,417
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Post by FinalGwen on Jan 4, 2015 15:04:33 GMT -5
Evangelion....how the !$@^@ am I supposed to feel ANY sympathy for Shinji when he is a whiny selfish complaining little jerk who is all "oh everyone hates me" "oh i am so useless I will just let third impact happen and let billions die because i have daddy issues" GET IN THE @$!^@&@ MECH SHINJI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! See, I'd do this one the other way round. Shinji gets way too much flak from fandom. He's a 15 year old kid who has had a pretty horrible life, and over the course of the series he essentially gets PTSD, is forced to watch his friend be crippled by his own mech thanks to his utter arse of a father, and the one person who he really clicks with and is treated well by turns out to be an angel and he has to kill him himself for the sake of humanity. Despite that, he manages to make it through instrumentality and gain some degree of self-actualisation in the process. He does some shitty things along the way - particularly towards Asuka - but that's because he's meant to be a flawed character. But does he get grief for this, or the fact that he's not a catchphrase spewing action hero with a personality more two-dimensional than a damp tissue? It's the latter.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 4, 2015 15:26:21 GMT -5
Admiral Dougherty in ST: Insurrection. The cure to absolutely every disease imaginable and a way to at least double lifespans, and Picard stops it because it involves relocating a single village from a planet they're not even native to? Even the Paramount executives said that plot was pretty asinine. Yes when people who have a reputation of destroying the creative process rightly point your idea isn't that good for the reasons outlined above, you should have went back to the drawing board. Jonathan Frakes was especially critical of it. Even going into production he knew the script was pretty weak and wanted to have extensive rewrites done, but his hands were tied due to time and budget restrictions (in fact, they actually ran out of money towards the end of production).
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