Netflix cracks down on VPNs

[Boo!]

www.digitalspy.co.uk/tech/news/a619240/netflix-under-pressure-to-block-vpn-users-and-stamp-out-geo-piracy.html

News that they're cracking down on VPN users e.g people outside the US who use maskers to get the US version of Netflix for the content. I get that studios have their rights agreements to protect but surely Warner Brothers, Sony and the like can see that if people are willing to pay for the content even if they lie about their location - that it's a better deal than the inevitable push towards illegal piracy that this'll encourage.



These things are still being run by old men in grey suits who hope that tomorrow will be 1993 again. It's just not feasible, they're seeking to win a battle that'll likely lead to a loss in the much wider war. The tide has turned, I wish companies turned with it rather than doing things like this for short-term gain that'll end up costing them untold billions in piracy.



In an ideal world people would stay in their houses and watch what the studios want them to watch, how they want them to watch it and pay what they want them to pay. I'd like a massive house, wife with enormous breasts and a £700,000 sports car - realistically I'm not going to get it and nor or are they



I find it so frustrating when the world seems to be run by people who don't/refuse to understand it. Embrace the change, be happy that people are willing to jump through hoops to pay you for your content - don't pretend that you can win as you can't. It feels like waiting for your mom to be convinced to go online in the mid-late 90s whilst she's still hoping against hope the radio might make a comeback.

If people want content they'll get it. If they can pay for it through official channels (albeit slightly duplicitous) they will. But if they can't, guess what? It's 2015 and they'll see it anyway and you (the studios) will get squat.

Why must we live in a world where people who run it want to pretend it's different to what it is?

[Some Guy]

To be fair, I really doubt Netflix cares but the content people they have agreements with are likely pushing the hell out of them.

Ah never mind I see you covered that. Sony/Warner bros/big wig studios are pretty much always going to be like this. Just the way it is.

[Boo!]

Jan 5, 2015 10:04:03 GMT -5 Some Guy said:

To be fair, I really doubt Netflix cares but the content people they have agreements with are likely pushing the hell out of them.

Of course. My ire is towards the content providers rather than distributors. Even so if this is enforced you can probably cut their international subscriber base in half. Everyone I know has Netflix and everyone of those has US Netflix too. 

The studios will find that it hits them in the pocket in two ways -firstly that Netflix will have less of an overseas market and second pushing people towards piracy will result in one thing - more piracy. People who are shunned through this discover they can watch season 4 of whatever via a Torrent they're quite likely to think "hmmm, what else can I watch this way?"

To quote Orton: Stooooooopid! Stoooooopid!

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Netflix could very well be in trouble soon anyway.

When they began, this was all a new idea. Now each content provider is seeing the success of this model, there's a big chance it could be gutted, and we have the Warner stuff, Sony stuff, Disney stuff all coming from the creators once various contracts end.

Hope it's not but this could be a move to get a more secure base, a bit more money then creating more original content for the Netflix brand.

[Mondai Rogue]

Meh. I can't say I'm too bothered by this. Netflix is a handy and cheap service, if they don't want me using VPNs and stuff then I'll stop using them.

[Kash Flagg]

So let's violate Netflix's terms of service because that's not as bad as pirating!

Sorry, you can't follow the rules of their site (no matter how you disagree with their rules) then they have the right to kick you out. You can't really be shocked when you do something you're not supposed to and then get punished because of it.

[xCompackx]

Jan 5, 2015 10:54:50 GMT -5 Kash Flagg said:

So let's violate Netflix's terms of service because that's not as bad as pirating!

Sorry, you can't follow the rules of their site (no matter how you disagree with their rules) then they have the right to kick you out. You can't really be shocked when you do something you're not supposed to and then get punished because of it.

I don't disagree, but it does bring up a point about why people have to use VPNs to use Netflix. Why not just torrent and keep the money that you're paying to watch what you want to? Yeah, it's against the ToS, but it also shows that these people are willing to pay.

[Kash Flagg]

I think that's up to the individual if they wish to do that. I'm not for or against it personally, but I'm just trying to see both sides of it. I just don't think piracy is the only other answer for it.

[Andrew is Good]

They do this blocking anyway right now and have done it for awhile.

Pirating, like, I think someone said this and I don't want to take credit for it, is defeated by one thing. Ease of use. If it's easier to pay for a service then pirate something, people will pay. I'm surprised any company would stop use like that because, unless I'm wrong, most people who do this are paying for the service. You don't hear WWE Network saying anything about this, because they want all the subscribers they can get.

I've been kicked out before of my American Netflix, but it's easy to get back in. I feel this might just be Netflix saying to the big companies, yeah, we'll get those no-goodnicks, we'll save the day, and in the end, they want your money, just like WWE Network. But yeah, stuff like that is not piracy if you're paying for the service.

I'm also thinking lots of people are trying to be as vague as possible when posting here, because I bet lots of people outside the US do this kind of stuff. So the advice to them would be, don't tell people HOW you get it, just like in the WWE Network warning haha.

[Mozenrath]

I do hope some of these borders become less archaic. As it stands, Australia is RIFE with piracy, in part due to them getting screwed over constantly on distribution, and when they do get stuff, like video games, it's embarrassingly overpriced. A lot of that is on the governments themselves, and a lot of it is companies making it difficult, but that doesn't mean it always has to be this way. I just sympathize that Netflix has its obligations and if pressured by the companies it works with, it basically has little choice in whether they act on it or not.

[xCompackx]

Jan 5, 2015 11:57:07 GMT -5 Andrew is Good said:

They do this blocking anyway right now and have done it for awhile.

Pirating, like, I think someone said this and I don't want to take credit for it, is defeated by one thing. Ease of use. If it's easier to pay for a service then pirate something, people will pay. I'm surprised any company would stop use like that because, unless I'm wrong, most people who do this are paying for the service. You don't hear WWE Network saying anything about this, because they want all the subscribers they can get.

I've been kicked out before of my American Netflix, but it's easy to get back in. I feel this might just be Netflix saying to the big companies, yeah, we'll get those no-goodnicks, we'll save the day, and in the end, they want your money, just like WWE Network. But yeah, stuff like that is not piracy if you're paying for the service.

I'm also thinking lots of people are trying to be as vague as possible when posting here, because I bet lots of people outside the US do this kind of stuff. So the advice to them would be, don't tell people HOW you get it, just like in the WWE Network warning haha.

Exactly, and it reminds me of HBO announcing that they're going to make HBO GO a standalone service after Game of Thrones was said to be the most pirated show of 2014. Whether or not that's a coincidence is up for debate, but it's still really smart to make it easier to watch Game of Thrones while also making a profit from it. There's always going to be people who just want to watch things for free and you can't really help that, but a lot of people do want to pay and making it easier to access your content is far more effective than just putting obstacles in people's way, which just makes piracy more attractive.

[Boo!]

It's not a niche thing either. My aunt knows how to watch episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher in the UK and that doesn't even have distribution here. If it was a niche thing then maybe but it's not it's widespread and will only increase. They can either deal with the reality or say "it's illegal so we'll pretend it doesn't happen" and try to shut down one website at a time which is as effective as trying to keep a fart inside your pants.

It makes me wonder if they think this is a battle they can actually win and whether they're of an age that's generally technologically naive to think they might.

[Deleted]

[Reflecto]

All the people saying this is just the big mean studios being big and mean and picking on Netflix need to keep in mind as well, Netflix is also a big problem. Netflix being the only major streaming service that puts up different movies/shows in different countries and puts up and removes content is a bigger problem for VPNs than this- since Netflix's prices are similar around the world, if you're getting the same content worldwide as you would for other services, there's no real need to use a VPN to get around it.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Jan 5, 2015 13:21:42 GMT -5 @wvguitar said:

Where did you find this gif of me and Vince McMahon?

[Brother Nero....Wolfe]

(Warning: boring thoughts on the situation that don't lean toward either extreme of the situation to follow. People with better things to do should skip everything I have to say)

This is a painful situation to watch because it's all a gigantic headache. It's basically caused because companies are still handling licensing deals as if the internet didn't exist, though they are admittedly evolving. Add to this the fact that different countries have different laws about bypassing geographical internet limitations and it's a much murkier issue than piracy, especially since content is actually being paid for and the immediate violin is terms of service, not the law itself. Not to mention that though there are similar rulings that could be argued as precedent, even in the US there aren't rulings specifically about bypassing a service like Netflix...though admittedly there are rulings close enough to it to infer the intent. The US case involves IP cloaking which was used to appropriate information from Craigslist, which was ruled illegal. Whether that precedent would be argued as "IP cloaking is illegal" or if someone could argue for it meaning that the ruling wouldn't apply when IP Cloaking wasn't causing unlawful damage....ehhhhh......I'd prefer the latter ruling, but I'd be surprised. Former would be a lot more plausible. Canada is a bit grayer in that area though.

The result of all that is a bit of a half-assed situation where companies like Netflix are like "We'll enforce this law as much as you force us to because frankly it gives us a profit" and the law/service providers catch up to it. The licensing mess is especially bad because sometimes it comes from companies being locked into previously existing deals from before internet was a thing and refuse to let go from them because, hey, profit is guaranteed this way so there's no reason to change it. Even as they lock new deals they don't account for international equality because that's just risk and work they don't need to take when they can just say "Hey, Rogers, park those trucks filled cash by our Titan Tower."

Add on to that the fact that even if getting around geoblocking is legal where you live, and even if it was legal where the website is being hosted, that doesn't mean shit. It being legal doesn't mean they have to offer their content to certain parts of the world, especially not if it's best for their business if they aren't. It's their right to decide who gets to watch their stuff and who doesn't.

We are probably gonna see less geoblocking over the next decade because companies will start to see it as making more business sense. At that point the legality of geoblocking will be a non-issue since it won't be as prevalent as it is right now. Until then though, it's gonna be that murky territory of "legally gray depending on where you live, streaming services willing to turn a blind eye, copyright holders prompting streaming services not do that..." and so on. It's a bit of an ugly dance but hey, I'm pretty optimistic about it changing in the near future.

I'm not a huge fan of bypassing geoblocks myself, but actually analyzing the whole situation is kind of fascinating to me.

[Deleted]

I haven't had Netflix in a while but I used a VPN a few times to interesting effect. For instance, I was able to watch the full three seasons (!) of The Boondocks, instead of the one season found on the US Netflix.

[YAKMAN is ICHIBAN]

It took me all of 30 seconds to figure out how to access my US WWE Network account while visiting Canada. As long as content is digital, and Google exists, this is not a battle the content distributors can win by any means other than providing content, at a reasonable price, easier than it is to pirate. Otherwise all they can do is play whack-a-mole.

Netflix and Steam are the king of this approach so far.

[Boo!]

The truth is often with people who want to watch a film online if they're told it's not available on iTunes or Netflix says you don't live in the right country, the response isn't: "Oh gee, what bad luck for me. Best watch something else instead", they'll go elsewhere and get it free and it's easy enough to do so; which is what makes this move so stupid because it's driving people to do exactly that.

[DiBiase is Good]

Good. It pisses me off that I am required by law to pay for the BBC every year, yet people abroad who don't have to pay that fee can mask themselves and watch content that I have essentially paid for without charge.
I don't have a problem with paying for the BBC as I do think in terms of the amount of channels and radio channels you get for it are worth the cost. I also like the lack of adverts and them having to be unbiased in terms of whatever they broadcast on the news. I'm not keen on people bypassing region codes for things like Netflix but as I don't have to pay for it, I'm not as bothered. But in the case of the iPlayer, I have paid for the programming on there because the law says I have to. If anyone else wants to watch that programming, they should pay a fee.