A Dungeons And Dragons Race Question

[Deleted]

We'll get to it, but first thet me run you through why this came about.

This crept into my dopey head because I am currently playing Icewind Dale 2 for the first time in my life. I'm happy. 

It's a good game BTW. Creating six people to adventure together though completely flipped my personal OCD switch and micromanaging six sets of different bullshit kinda stresses me out.

Damnit, I want this unit to make sense. I want them all to have perfectly individualized strengths/weaknesses and roles within the group. I want to buy that they would travel together and have some central purpose or at least common understanding. I stewed on these cats for at least an hour and a half before I even started playing.

I've always been pro-Dungeons and Dragons, I just had nowhere I could try and get into it growing up really. That's why I have to ask.

How exactly does race play out in D&D? I anticipate that there's problems, same as here. Since it's all fantasy nonsense though, it's kinda fun to think about.

Some elves' young one hundred and forty-seven year old daughter goes to prom, or I guess more accurately some harvest festival or whatever the big deal would've been in those days and with a Dwarf she likes and her Dad flips out. 

"I will not have that goddamn stonecutter in my house, do you hear me!?"

It's not his fault. He's just from a different era. And since he's like six hundred and seventy-two, I think it's safe to think that perhaps societal attitudes might have changed in that time. 

He's a good man. He always fed his family and frolicked in the woods and petted deer and did magic, it's just back then you kept to your own, by golly.

Like, where are the actual lines though? Who hates who? Is there dissension between sub-factions of the individual races? Is there somebody that is universally hated? What are some of the good slurs?

[Mozenrath]

It depends a lot on the setting and edition,. Typically, of the playable races, elves and dwarves resent one another but it's more of like UK and US giving each other shit for their tastes and culture than KKK-brand racism. Humans are the majority and can kind of get into anywhere, and Halflings are anything from nomadic to kinda hippyish depending on the setting, and are usually laid back about race. Half-Orcs are most likely to get harsh treatment of the races, but that is somewhat setting dependent, as well as hinging on how much the Half-Orc embraces their orc side or how much they just try to fit in. Half-Elves have a much easier time of fitting in but if they are in a position of mediating between elves and humans, they are accused by both sides of playing favorites to a degree, so it's not all a free ride.

Gnomes just kind of do their own thing usually but get along with Dwarves and Elves alright, being kind of like in the middle as far as their attitudes go.

Dragonborn get some suspicion, but a lot of it is since they are fairly rare in most settings and they look rather monstrous to someone not used to them.

Drow, when playable, are regarded with extreme suspicion, as well as Tieflings to a lesser degree, given they literally look demonic. Drow have an earned reputation of extreme cruelty and evil acts, but most players would be playing as a Drow who has abandoned their homeland to escape the slavery and other negatives of their civilization.

This is mostly what it is like in 5th edition, I can't really vouch for what it's like if you're playing a much older one.

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2015 12:03:35 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

It depends a lot on the setting and edition,. Typically, of the playable races, elves and dwarves resent one another but it's more of like UK and US giving each other shit for their tastes and culture than KKK-brand racism. Humans are the majority and can kind of get into anywhere, and Halflings are anything from nomadic to kinda hippyish depending on the setting, and are usually laid back about race. Half-Orcs are most likely to get harsh treatment of the races, but that is somewhat setting dependent, as well as hinging on how much the Half-Orc embraces their orc side or how much they just try to fit in. Half-Elves have a much easier time of fitting in but if they are in a position of mediating between elves and humans, they are accused by both sides of playing favorites to a degree, so it's not all a free ride.

Gnomes just kind of do their own thing usually but get along with Dwarves and Elves alright, being kind of like in the middle as far as their attitudes go.

Dragonborn get some suspicion, but a lot of it is since they are fairly rare in most settings and they look rather monstrous to someone not used to them.

Drow, when playable, are regarded with extreme suspicion, as well as Tieflings to a lesser degree, given they literally look demonic. Drow have an earned reputation of extreme cruelty and evil acts, but most players would be playing as a Drow who has abandoned their homeland to escape the slavery and other negatives of their civilization.

This is mostly what it is like in 5th edition, I can't really vouch for what it's like if you're playing a much older one.

Super thanks for the rundown, man.

You have positively made my day.

[Mozenrath]

I should also mention, part of why racism isn't quite as potent with most of the playable races is I guess you have less time to get hung up on that stuff when you already have Gnolls and Hobgoblins to deal with. You're not lacking for a target for your frustrations when an owlbear eats your sheep or something.

That's also probably part of the reasoning for why the newest edition mentions briefly that homosexuality and people not conforming to gender roles isn't regarded as overly strange much of the time. Again, they have bigger stuff on their plate, and I imagine a halfling in fishnets isn't going to register too harshly if you have seen something like a guy swing a wand to make gems fly out to pay his bar tab.

[Mozenrath]

Jan 5, 2015 12:07:36 GMT -5 @lesscra said:

Jan 5, 2015 12:03:35 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

It depends a lot on the setting and edition,. Typically, of the playable races, elves and dwarves resent one another but it's more of like UK and US giving each other shit for their tastes and culture than KKK-brand racism. Humans are the majority and can kind of get into anywhere, and Halflings are anything from nomadic to kinda hippyish depending on the setting, and are usually laid back about race. Half-Orcs are most likely to get harsh treatment of the races, but that is somewhat setting dependent, as well as hinging on how much the Half-Orc embraces their orc side or how much they just try to fit in. Half-Elves have a much easier time of fitting in but if they are in a position of mediating between elves and humans, they are accused by both sides of playing favorites to a degree, so it's not all a free ride.

Gnomes just kind of do their own thing usually but get along with Dwarves and Elves alright, being kind of like in the middle as far as their attitudes go.

Dragonborn get some suspicion, but a lot of it is since they are fairly rare in most settings and they look rather monstrous to someone not used to them.

Drow, when playable, are regarded with extreme suspicion, as well as Tieflings to a lesser degree, given they literally look demonic. Drow have an earned reputation of extreme cruelty and evil acts, but most players would be playing as a Drow who has abandoned their homeland to escape the slavery and other negatives of their civilization.

This is mostly what it is like in 5th edition, I can't really vouch for what it's like if you're playing a much older one.

Super thanks for the rundown, man.

You have positively made my day.

No problem. Actually literally finished a campaign like 12 hours ago, so it's fresh on my mind. The Wizards of the Coast website has some of this stuff free to read in PDF I think, and if not, the player's handbook is really good. I dunno what it's running for right now, but the current edition is very easy to play online over skype, which is more or less how we did it, so you can probably find a gaming group. Hell, might even run a campaign one of these days myself if you wanted in and it was doable.

[Cyno]

Yeah, it's really dependent on the setting. Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, etc. all have different racial attitudes. An original setting by the campaign's DM can also flip things on its head. Like in my friend's original Pathfinder game, the Drow are a diverse race and many more live on the surface versus underground. I played a Lawful Good Drow Holy Gun (Paladin alternate class that uses lighter armor and a gun enhanced by divine power) and there was nothing unusual about that at all.

Icewind Dale takes place in the Forgotten Realms series, so your best bet is to look up information especially for that setting.

[The Unconquered Sun]

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}

When in doubt, sit down and
1) really flesh out the world's history, figure out the who, what, where, how, and why of the world.
2) who is your character? Act like you were writing a profile for a dating site/ 1st date. What are his dreams, hopes, his favorite song, what would he want on his tombstone?

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2015 12:13:03 GMT -5 Cyno said:

Yeah, it's really dependent on the setting. Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, etc. all have different racial attitudes. An original setting by the campaign's DM can also flip things on its head. Like in my friend's original Pathfinder game, the Drow are a diverse race and many more live on the surface versus underground. I played a Lawful Good Drow Holy Gun (Paladin alternate class that uses lighter armor and a gun enhanced by divine power) and there was nothing unusual about that at all.

Icewind Dale takes place in the Forgotten Realms series, so your best bet is to look up information especially for that setting.

A kind thanks to you too, sir. Y'all have no idea how much I will be able to enjoy this more now.

These guys are no longer static. I can see them suspiciously leering, cracking jokes and having sidebars now.

[Mozenrath]

Jan 5, 2015 12:13:03 GMT -5 Cyno said:

Yeah, it's really dependent on the setting. Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, etc. all have different racial attitudes. An original setting by the campaign's DM can also flip things on its head. Like in my friend's original Pathfinder game, the Drow are a diverse race and many more live on the surface versus underground. I played a Lawful Good Drow Holy Gun (Paladin alternate class that uses lighter armor and a gun enhanced by divine power) and there was nothing unusual about that at all.

Icewind Dale takes place in the Forgotten Realms series, so your best bet is to look up information especially for that setting.

Yep, though Forgotten Realms is also the default setting for 5th edition, instead of Greyhawk this time around, so I imagine a lot of what I said still applies. Good tip, though. I wasn't familiar with Icewind Dale.

[Mozenrath]

Jan 5, 2015 12:21:28 GMT -5 The Unconquered Sun said:

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}{Spoiler}

When in doubt, sit down and
1) really flesh out the world's history, figure out the who, what, where, how, and why of the world.
2) who is your character? Act like you were writing a profile for a dating site/ 1st date. What are his dreams, hopes, his favorite song, what would he want on his tombstone?

Good advice. This is why I am glad that making a background in 5th is actually mandatory, including traits, a character flaw, and bond(motivation). It means it's actually something the player bothers with, as some of them can be very lazy and bland about it. It also encourages the DM to reward participation.

[Deleted]

I'm suddenly struck with idea of some goofy character getting the "it's not you, it's me" and being subtly asked to leave the party.

I'm thinking like a Half-Orc Bard that is an ugly, clumsy, uncharismatic dope that always takes charge and makes things worse for everybody.

I also like the idea of insane boundaryless cross-classing. I want the Bard-Barian. He gets ENRAGED!!!....and plays flimsy little magical songs.... Of HATE!!! on his lute.

This will later become metal.

[Mozenrath]

Jan 5, 2015 12:34:25 GMT -5 @lesscra said:

I'm suddenly struck with idea of some goofy character getting the "it's not you, it's me" and being subtly asked to leave the party.

I'm thinking like a Half-Orc Bard that is an ugly, clumsy, uncharismatic dope that always takes charge and makes things worse for everybody.

I also like the idea of insane boundaryless cross-classing. I want the Bard-Barian. He gets ENRAGED!!!....and plays flimsy little magical songs.... Of HATE!!! on his lute.

This will later become metal.

It's a lot of fun to come up with nuts characters.

My brother actually found a really fun randomizer you can mess around with.
5echargen.atspace.cc/
It sometimes comes up with very strange characters, like a noble Cleric who thought all people were equals and worthy of respect, yet also had the flaw of thinking she was better than everyone. I don't know how one would reconcile that.

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2015 12:37:55 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

Jan 5, 2015 12:34:25 GMT -5 @lesscra said:

I'm suddenly struck with idea of some goofy character getting the "it's not you, it's me" and being subtly asked to leave the party.

I'm thinking like a Half-Orc Bard that is an ugly, clumsy, uncharismatic dope that always takes charge and makes things worse for everybody.

I also like the idea of insane boundaryless cross-classing. I want the Bard-Barian. He gets ENRAGED!!!....and plays flimsy little magical songs.... Of HATE!!! on his lute.

This will later become metal.

It's a lot of fun to come up with nuts characters.

My brother actually found a really fun randomizer you can mess around with.
5echargen.atspace.cc/
It sometimes comes up with very strange characters, like a noble Cleric who thought all people were equals and worthy of respect, yet also had the flaw of thinking she was better than everyone. I don't know how one would reconcile that.

My favorite thing would be if I could make a bogus Paladin.

Like, he believes just enough that he could maybe turn A skeleton in a pinch for show, but he's kinda a drunken mercenary shitpiece that's not above collecting himself a few coins for his efforts and bullshits his way through just about any situation

Clerics can be scuzzy, why not him?

[The Spelunker!]

If you're playing Icewind Dale, you should check out the 2 Baldur's Gate games. They're the same D&D setting and have more of that kind of character interaction and background info.

[Mozenrath]

Jan 5, 2015 13:20:43 GMT -5 The Spelunker! said:

If you're playing Icewind Dale, you should check out the 2 Baldur's Gate games. They're the same D&D setting and have more of that kind of character interaction and background info.

GO FOR THE EYES

[Cyno]

Jan 5, 2015 12:22:22 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

Jan 5, 2015 12:13:03 GMT -5 Cyno said:

Yeah, it's really dependent on the setting. Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, etc. all have different racial attitudes. An original setting by the campaign's DM can also flip things on its head. Like in my friend's original Pathfinder game, the Drow are a diverse race and many more live on the surface versus underground. I played a Lawful Good Drow Holy Gun (Paladin alternate class that uses lighter armor and a gun enhanced by divine power) and there was nothing unusual about that at all.

Icewind Dale takes place in the Forgotten Realms series, so your best bet is to look up information especially for that setting.

Yep, though Forgotten Realms is also the default setting for 5th edition, instead of Greyhawk this time around, so I imagine a lot of what I said still applies. Good tip, though. I wasn't familiar with Icewind Dale.

True, I forgot that they made FR the default setting. Pretty much the only thing I actively disliked about 5E because I'm tired of FR at this point.

[Mozenrath]

Jan 5, 2015 14:37:01 GMT -5 Cyno said:

Jan 5, 2015 12:22:22 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

Yep, though Forgotten Realms is also the default setting for 5th edition, instead of Greyhawk this time around, so I imagine a lot of what I said still applies. Good tip, though. I wasn't familiar with Icewind Dale.

True, I forgot that they made FR the default setting. Pretty much the only thing I actively disliked about 5E because I'm tired of FR at this point.

Understandable, though it's easy to ignore. I don't think we've done anything FR-related in our campaign we had, outside of when a drow player was masquerading as Drizzt... until we met the real Drizzt who ended up in our town because of the web of lies causing problems for both parties.

[Dr. T is an alien]

I don't know if they have made many changes to races since I last played (when I started out, Vecna was just a scary as hell lich that could potentially show up to wreck your shit and not some upper deity), but it all depends on both the setting and the DM. Usually, player-characters are viewed as oddballs within the society that they grew up in since they chose the adventuring life rather than take their place in their society with the others of their kind. Associating with other races just fits in with that as well. There are some traditional interactions between races that may or may not still apply:

Humans
There are few settings in which humans are not capable of getting along with almost any race. Some settings will have humans that are openly racist against their neighbors and it is not uncommon for many major villains to be humans (a byproduct of 2nd ed's racial level limitations).

Dwarves
Traditionally, dwarves were a race whose blood did not mix well with arcane magic. As such, they did not always get along with races who took well to magic (such as elves and gnomes), though honorable individuals of those races would still be respected in dwarven society. About the only races that they had true hatred for that might be playable were Duegar, Drow, and half-orcs.

Elves
There are settings where the elves are the true racists in that world, thinking all other races as below them and not bothering to hide it (the Silvanesti and Qualinesti of Krynn were really bad about that, even towards other elven societies). In other settings the grace that comes with great advanced age makes them the most accepting of races.

Gnomes
Outside of dwarves, who find them flighty, annoying, and too enamored with their illusionary magics, and kobolds, who openly hate them for religious reasons, most races get along with gnomes just fine.

Halflings
This is one race that gets along with almost all. Some dwarves think them as immature, but beyond that few have objections towards them.

Kobolds
This race actively dislikes most other races, but have a special hatred for gnomes based upon their religion. The game settings also used to have them frequently have intense wars for territory with goblins. These wars were so intense that it was said that the dwarves think that they would be hard pressed to do as good a job of controlling the goblin population the way that the kobolds did.

There are some races that kobolds not only like, but practically worship. Kobolds believe themselves dragon-descended (and there is some evidence that this is distantly true), so half-dragons, especially chromatic descended, are held in very high regard.

Half-orcs
This was a group that used to be given a hard time all around. Dwarves and elves are instantly distrustful of them and not even all orcs are accepting of them. Playing them as outsiders that are freakishly strong usually fits well in the setting.

Half-elves
This group is usually as well accepted as humans. Most dwarves even find them as beautiful as elves but as sensible as humans. Some elven societies don't look at them as half-elves but as half-humans and treat them even worse than they do humans, but that is up to the DM.

Minotaurs
This giant race is sometimes playable. In the old days, there were two types of minotaurs. There were afflicted minotaurs who were originally born as humans who were afflicted with the curse of becoming a minotaur. The others were natural minotaurs, birthed when afflicted minotaurs kidnapped and raped human females (seriously, that was in the monster manual). Now that minotaurs are a naturalized race of giants now, this history is gone, as is that particular aspect of the rivalry with humans. Also apparently missing from the current game is their rivalry with Gnolls, which exceeded their rivalry with humans (the monster manual went out of the way to emphasize that if gnolls and minotaurs encountered each other in the battlefield, they would neglect all other individuals until all of their rivals were dead, even if they are supposed to be on the same side. Friendly fire, indeed).

Giants
The various giant races had complex relationships with one another. Some get along with one another. Some are mortal enemies. Some get along with other giant races even if their alignments do not overlap.

[Dr. T is an alien]

Jan 5, 2015 12:34:25 GMT -5 @lesscra said:

I'm suddenly struck with idea of some goofy character getting the "it's not you, it's me" and being subtly asked to leave the party.

I'm thinking like a Half-Orc Bard that is an ugly, clumsy, uncharismatic dope that always takes charge and makes things worse for everybody.

I also like the idea of insane boundaryless cross-classing. I want the Bard-Barian. He gets ENRAGED!!!....and plays flimsy little magical songs.... Of HATE!!! on his lute.

This will later become metal.

Some of the most fun characters that I have either ran or had someone else in the party run were as follows:

- Dickhead prankster gnomish illusionist. One party member who he got into an argument discovered that the next time he went into town that there was an illusion overlay that literally made it look like his head was a giant penis. Another guy he feuded with was in front of the gnome and his donkey (this part is important) in the marching order. After arguing back and forth once again, the gnome cast an illusion of a head of cabbage (the donkey's favorite food) on the other guy's ass. Yes, the donkey took a big bite out of his ass.

- We were once blessed with a very talented cleric. Unfortunately, he was a cleric of The Nagus (yes, based on the Ferengi leader). He charged for every service, even when it was done to save his own ass along with the party. He was also a consummate conman whose schemes often backfired and got the party in trouble.

- The was one barbarian whose hobby (in fact, a damned-near obsession) was that he tried to determine what combination of food generated the most pungent farts. Volume, area of effect, and duration of effect were also things he worked on. We used him as our chief interrogator. Ten minutes in a tent with him was usually enough to get good information.

- The guy that played Gassy McGee once briefly ran a Sivak-version of Quagmire (but predated Quagmire by a decade). He had a preference for killing the women villains in order to get to spend an evening self-abusing his now-female self (Sivak males can take the form of those they kill). This obsession did mean that once he killed someone whose form he wanted to play with he held back in battle in order to not change forms should he kill someone else, which is a real pain in the ass when he was the primary tank of the party.

- I played a kobold who was fully delusional and thoroughly convinced that he had latent dragon powers and was basically bulletproof. His name was Xexanthanor Xenarius Xornithicus the Great (and he introduced himself as such and talked exclusively in the third person (again, this was before the Rock made that a cool thing to do). The guy's complete delusional behavior tickled the DM thoroughly, so he kept having extreme good luck help him survive things that would have killed a dragon, which only fed his belief that he was bulletproof. Do you have any idea how fun it is to play a 3 ft tall, 45 lb lizard man that always goes right up to the largest barbarian in the pub, throws the guy's drink in his face, and somehow be the only guy in the resulting bar brawl that spreads into a full-fledged riot to suffer no injuries because of dumb luck? It is so fun.

- My first character ever was a plain-Jane paladin who died in his very first battle (I dove right into battle with a "Have at you, you scurrilous villains!", which meant that all the NPCs decided to take a round making me dead). Instead of taking me back to the church to get me reincarnated, a joker in the party took me to a druid who was very skilled using reincarnation and healing spells to put a soul in whatever dead body you want, for a price. My paladin was put into the body of a minotaur (an embodiment of evil in 2nd ed.). I had to learn how to resist the hunger for human flesh (fortunately, the character's willpower was high and I never did anything that would cost me my paladin status). I was initially disavowed by the church, but eventually became a beloved figure on the streets and did wonders for recruiting non-humans to the church.

- We had one guy who I think was not mentally balanced himself that played a character who was secretly a serial killer known as "The Popper" (based on his signature of scooping his victims eyes out and stomping on them). He would sneak away at night, kill, and then start leaving clues that started leading to my magical assassin character. I was initially annoyed, but it was some brilliant gameplay. I don't know if the guy was simply creative or if he was using us to play out some sick fantasies.