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Post by Mister Pigwell on Jan 20, 2015 1:50:59 GMT -5
This thread makes me feel better about still rocking Significant Other from time to time. Why should anyone feel bad about that? Wes Borland is awesome. You should get the chance to rock out on anything he worked on. I absolutely adore Cruel Melody.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 1:54:21 GMT -5
Real metal. Around the mid 2000s, look at all the bands that started to grow in popularity. You had guys like Arch Enemy, Lamb of God, Shadows Fall, God Forbid, and Dimmu Borgir becoming more visible. You also had hardcore/metalcore bands rising (and classic metal bands returning to fame to boot) Honestly, once the internet became more available and made it easier to access these bands, nu metal's days were numbered. Just look how fast the line up of Ozzfest changed from 2001 to 2004. Nu metal was the hardest music some people could get their hands on at one time. So once this happened, the genre never stood a chance. I was just coming in here to post that the real answer is metalcore, which isn't any better than nu-metal. Also, since when did it become cool to "hate" grunge? The big 4 of grunge are still quite popular, even more so than nu-metal's top bands at the peak of that genre's popularity. Especially Nirvana.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 20, 2015 2:04:00 GMT -5
I was never a huge fan of nu-metal, but I did listen to it as a teenager. I actually still like the Limp Bizkit/Disturbed/Korn/Linkin Park stuff I listened to back then, which makes me feel worthless as a human being since everybody else either "grew out" of it or hates it entirely. Don't feel that way. Everyone else is a lying sack of shit. A LOT of people bought their albums. They were popular, and now a lot of people who bought that stuff left and right is yelling about how much they hate it now that it isn't popular. It's sort of like disco, 80's hair metal, new wave, and the grunge movement. There were good acts from each genre, the genre got big, a lot of acts (some good, many not) appeared, a lot of records were sold, the fad faded and suddenly everyone and their mother hated it (except Cindy's mom. Cindy's mom kept it real by never giving up on her ABBA fandom). What happened to all of those fads? The best of each genre get played a lot now on classic channels and "way-back lunch" programming for Top 40 stations. Kids today admit that the Bee Gees were awesome, Flock of Seagulls looked stupid but had a really catchy sound, Motley Crue was both fun and had a lot of great songs, and that Alice in Chains were (and actually still is) amazing. Given enough time, nu-metal's elite talents will garner similar praise after it is no longer cool to hate on them. To be fair I always hated Limp Bizkit... but I totally listened to Korn and Linkin Park all the time. Linkin Park gets a few plays every once and a while but I pretty much stopped listening to Korn. Also Flock of Seagulls first album was great... it was when they decided to try and be Duran Duran that they started to suck
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 2:29:56 GMT -5
I was never a huge fan of nu-metal, but I did listen to it as a teenager. I actually still like the Limp Bizkit/Disturbed/Korn/Linkin Park stuff I listened to back then, which makes me feel worthless as a human being since everybody else either "grew out" of it or hates it entirely. Don't feel that way. Everyone else is a lying sack of shit. A LOT of people bought their albums. They were popular, and now a lot of people who bought that stuff left and right is yelling about how much they hate it now that it isn't popular. It's sort of like disco, 80's hair metal, new wave, and the grunge movement. There were good acts from each genre, the genre got big, a lot of acts (some good, many not) appeared, a lot of records were sold, the fad faded and suddenly everyone and their mother hated it (except Cindy's mom. Cindy's mom kept it real by never giving up on her ABBA fandom). What happened to all of those fads? The best of each genre get played a lot now on classic channels and "way-back lunch" programming for Top 40 stations. Kids today admit that the Bee Gees were awesome, Flock of Seagulls looked stupid but had a really catchy sound, Motley Crue was both fun and had a lot of great songs, and that Alice in Chains were (and actually still is) amazing. Given enough time, nu-metal's elite talents will garner similar praise after it is no longer cool to hate on them. This is completely un-smarmy, I promise... what elite talents are there in the genre that will be respected down the line? There were a few good vocalists, like Corey Taylor, David Draiman, and Chester Bennington, but the latter two will be remembered just as much, if not more, for their narmy moments (OOOOOO WA-A-A-A; SHUT UP! SHUT UP WHEN I'M TALKIN TO YOUUU!) and subpar lyrics. It's sort of a defining trait of the genre to not have much going on musically. Bland song structures, some of the worst rock guitar ever recorded, non-descript rhythm sections, lacking in feel, versatility, cohesion. The only standout musicians I can think of are Joey Jordison and...? Slipknot was actually a pretty good band for the genre, they may get some love down the line. I'll throw Disturbed in there too, those two bands gelled musically and seemed to know what they were doing. Outside of that, I don't see nu metal being fondly remembered. That said I totally agree that someone shouldn't feel bad about themselves for still liking something others moved on from. I mean...this is a pro wrestling message board, after all.
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adamclark52
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Post by adamclark52 on Jan 20, 2015 4:28:35 GMT -5
I was going to say 9/11, but not for the reasons you mentioned. Angst never went away, it just bled into other genres. Rather, the wanton destruction that was the underlying theme of a significant chunk of the Nu Metal canon just felt inappropriate to listen to in the 2-3 months following the September 11th attacks. The American public got a breather, and a few months later when those bands came out with either their more melodic post-9/11 output or their even-more-aggressive pre-Iraq War output, listeners had just had enough and these bands were immediately considered distinctly September 10th. Slipknot's Iowa, which is to me probably the most bleak album that came out of the nu-metal subgenre, was released only a couple of weeks before 9/11. Hell, Jay-Z's The Blueprint came out ON 9/11. The first album I remember dealing with a post-9/11 America was The Eminem Show. Slayers 'God Hates Us All' came out on 9/11.
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adamclark52
El Dandy
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Post by adamclark52 on Jan 20, 2015 4:33:51 GMT -5
I was never a fan of Limp Bizkits heavier songs but I always really liked their more "ballady" songs, which is odd because I f***ing hate ballads. Re-Arranged, Sour, My Way, Build a Bridge, all great songs. And the last song on their first album called Everything. It was more of an improve/chill song but it was really cool. Back to My Way, it made one of the best wrestling promos ever even better (Rock verses Stone Cold leading in to Wrestlemania X-7). And Build a Bridge was awesome for Survivor Series 2003's promo. Nu-Metal was good for wrestling promos in the early to mid-2000's.
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Post by Digital Witness on Jan 20, 2015 5:40:08 GMT -5
I think I actually hated Limp Bizkit more when they were in their heyday than I do now. I mean I can't remember the last time I've heard a Limp Bizkit song. I don't ever hear them on the radio. None of my friends/family/acquaintances listen to them. They're really just irrelevant to me now where as I couldn't stand them 15 years ago.
The more important question is: Why the hell are we bringing up Limp Bizkit when brand spanking new Sleater-Kinney, Decemberists, and Belle and Sebastian albums just dropped?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 12:10:39 GMT -5
All the cool kids listen to Dubstep now. Actually EDM now. I was never a huge fan of nu-metal, but I did listen to it as a teenager. I actually still like the Limp Bizkit/Disturbed/Korn/Linkin Park stuff I listened to back then, which makes me feel worthless as a human being since everybody else either "grew out" of it or hates it entirely. Don't feel that way. Everyone else is a lying sack of shit. A LOT of people bought their albums. They were popular, and now a lot of people who bought that stuff left and right is yelling about how much they hate it now that it isn't popular. It's sort of like disco, 80's hair metal, new wave, and the grunge movement. There were good acts from each genre, the genre got big, a lot of acts (some good, many not) appeared, a lot of records were sold, the fad faded and suddenly everyone and their mother hated it (except Cindy's mom. Cindy's mom kept it real by never giving up on her ABBA fandom). What happened to all of those fads? The best of each genre get played a lot now on classic channels and "way-back lunch" programming for Top 40 stations. Kids today admit that the Bee Gees were awesome, Flock of Seagulls looked stupid but had a really catchy sound, Motley Crue was both fun and had a lot of great songs, and that Alice in Chains were (and actually still is) amazing. Given enough time, nu-metal's elite talents will garner similar praise after it is no longer cool to hate on them. Don't feel that way. Everyone else is a lying sack of shit. A LOT of people bought their albums. They were popular, and now a lot of people who bought that stuff left and right is yelling about how much they hate it now that it isn't popular. It's sort of like disco, 80's hair metal, new wave, and the grunge movement. There were good acts from each genre, the genre got big, a lot of acts (some good, many not) appeared, a lot of records were sold, the fad faded and suddenly everyone and their mother hated it (except Cindy's mom. Cindy's mom kept it real by never giving up on her ABBA fandom). What happened to all of those fads? The best of each genre get played a lot now on classic channels and "way-back lunch" programming for Top 40 stations. Kids today admit that the Bee Gees were awesome, Flock of Seagulls looked stupid but had a really catchy sound, Motley Crue was both fun and had a lot of great songs, and that Alice in Chains were (and actually still is) amazing. Given enough time, nu-metal's elite talents will garner similar praise after it is no longer cool to hate on them. This is completely un-smarmy, I promise... what elite talents are there in the genre that will be respected down the line? There were a few good vocalists, like Corey Taylor, David Draiman, and Chester Bennington, but the latter two will be remembered just as much, if not more, for their narmy moments (OOOOOO WA-A-A-A; SHUT UP! SHUT UP WHEN I'M TALKIN TO YOUUU!) and subpar lyrics. It's sort of a defining trait of the genre to not have much going on musically. Bland song structures, some of the worst rock guitar ever recorded, non-descript rhythm sections, lacking in feel, versatility, cohesion. The only standout musicians I can think of are Joey Jordison and...? Slipknot was actually a pretty good band for the genre, they may get some love down the line. I'll throw Disturbed in there too, those two bands gelled musically and seemed to know what they were doing. Outside of that, I don't see nu metal being fondly remembered. That said I totally agree that someone shouldn't feel bad about themselves for still liking something others moved on from. I mean...this is a pro wrestling message board, after all. Linkin Park, Disturbed, Deftones, Slipknot, Papa Roach, Breaking Benjamin, Mudvayne, Disturbed, Staind, and few others I'm missing have received critical acclaim or done well commercially over the past few years way past the Nu-Metal years. Sometimes they are acclaimed and commercially successful. Hell f***ing Marilyn Manson is getting great positive buzz for his new album which is supposedly his best work in the past 12 years with some singles getting some decent radio time. Hell the recent albums of Limp Bizkit, Korn, Evanescence charted high on the billboard charts including #1 for Evanescence. Like I said earlier in this thread anything that explodes in popularity has a extremly shortlife in the mainstream and the few lucky ones will build up a small but big solid loyal fanbase keeping them relevant but it's nowhere as big as their fanbase was during their peak years. Well Linkin Park's fanbase is still pretty f***ing massive.
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Dr. T is an alien
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I've been found out!
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 20, 2015 12:42:40 GMT -5
I was never a fan of Limp Bizkits heavier songs but I always really liked their more "ballady" songs, which is odd because I f***ing hate ballads. Re-Arranged, Sour, My Way, Build a Bridge, all great songs. And the last song on their first album called Everything. It was more of an improve/chill song but it was really cool. Back to My Way, it made one of the best wrestling promos ever even better (Rock verses Stone Cold leading in to Wrestlemania X-7). And Build a Bridge was awesome for Survivor Series 2003's promo. Nu-Metal was good for wrestling promos in the early to mid-2000's. My guess is that you prefer their more "ballady" songs because they are songs in which Fred Durst repressed his inner douchebag and simply sang a song. He's not a great singer, but he isn't nails on chalkboard bad some seem to think he is.
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adamclark52
El Dandy
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Post by adamclark52 on Jan 20, 2015 13:37:30 GMT -5
I was never a fan of Limp Bizkits heavier songs but I always really liked their more "ballady" songs, which is odd because I f***ing hate ballads. Re-Arranged, Sour, My Way, Build a Bridge, all great songs. And the last song on their first album called Everything. It was more of an improve/chill song but it was really cool. Back to My Way, it made one of the best wrestling promos ever even better (Rock verses Stone Cold leading in to Wrestlemania X-7). And Build a Bridge was awesome for Survivor Series 2003's promo. Nu-Metal was good for wrestling promos in the early to mid-2000's. My guess is that you prefer their more "ballady" songs because they are songs in which Fred Durst repressed his inner douchebag and simply sang a song. He's not a great singer, but he isn't nails on chalkboard bad some seem to think he is. Yeah, and less people are jumping around "3...2...1...ALL FOR THE NOOKIE BREAK YOUR f***ING FACE"! But the music in those songs was always better too. Wes Borland is a creative, good guitarist. His character is pretty stupid though.
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Post by fuzzywarble, squat cobbler on Jan 20, 2015 14:10:41 GMT -5
This thread makes me feel better about still rocking Significant Other from time to time. Why should anyone feel bad about that? Wes Borland is awesome. You should get the chance to rock out on anything he worked on. I don't get people who say, "Wes is awesome!" or "Limp Bizkit sucked...except for Wes!" What made him 'awesome'? His guitar work on LB's albums was extremely generic and devoid of anything creative or technical. I don't get it. Why does he get a pass?
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adamclark52
El Dandy
I'm one with the Force; the Force is with me
Posts: 8,139
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Post by adamclark52 on Jan 20, 2015 15:20:26 GMT -5
Why should anyone feel bad about that? Wes Borland is awesome. You should get the chance to rock out on anything he worked on. I don't get people who say, "Wes is awesome!" or "Limp Bizkit sucked...except for Wes!" What made him 'awesome'? His guitar work on LB's albums was extremely generic and devoid of anything creative or technical. I don't get it. Why does he get a pass? Maybe people are just referring to in the contex of nu-metal. Compared to all these other guys that just used seven-string guitars tuned down two steps and whammy pedals he was creative. Compared to Jeff Loomis sure he sucks. But compared to the goofs from Coal Chamber and Crazy Town he's a f***ing guitar god.
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Post by fuzzywarble, squat cobbler on Jan 20, 2015 15:25:54 GMT -5
I don't get people who say, "Wes is awesome!" or "Limp Bizkit sucked...except for Wes!" What made him 'awesome'? His guitar work on LB's albums was extremely generic and devoid of anything creative or technical. I don't get it. Why does he get a pass? Maybe people are just referring to in the contex of nu-metal. Compared to all these other guys that just used seven-string guitars tuned down two steps and whammy pedals he was creative. Compared to Jeff Loomis sure he sucks. But compared to the goofs from Coal Chamber and Crazy Town he's a f***ing guitar god. I see your point, but MY point still remains. When people talk about his 'greatness', they don't frame it in the nu-metal sense. They make it seem like he's the second coming of Jimi Hendrix or something. If people were to frame it as such, as you've suggested, then it would make more sense...although that's not saying much, since pretty much every nu-metal guitarist is awful. But all I ever hear about Wes is how innovative and great he is, despite the fact that he doesn't receive critical acclaim for anything he does currently in the music scene.
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Jan 20, 2015 15:32:03 GMT -5
I don't get people who say, "Wes is awesome!" or "Limp Bizkit sucked...except for Wes!" What made him 'awesome'? His guitar work on LB's albums was extremely generic and devoid of anything creative or technical. I don't get it. Why does he get a pass? Maybe people are just referring to in the contex of nu-metal. Compared to all these other guys that just used seven-string guitars tuned down two steps and whammy pedals he was creative. Compared to Jeff Loomis sure he sucks. But compared to the goofs from Coal Chamber and Crazy Town he's a f***ing guitar god. Oh, good God. Coal Chamber was f***ing AWFUL.
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Post by fuzzywarble, squat cobbler on Jan 20, 2015 15:51:07 GMT -5
IMO Coal Chamber was the worst nu-metal band to come out of that era.
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adamclark52
El Dandy
I'm one with the Force; the Force is with me
Posts: 8,139
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Post by adamclark52 on Jan 20, 2015 16:33:25 GMT -5
IMO Coal Chamber was the worst nu-metal band to come out of that era. Anything Dez Falafarahala touches is pure shit. Devildriver are f***ing garbage too.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 20, 2015 17:10:38 GMT -5
WWE burned it out with 57 nu-metal PPV themes in a row.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 20, 2015 17:36:28 GMT -5
Maybe people are just referring to in the contex of nu-metal. Compared to all these other guys that just used seven-string guitars tuned down two steps and whammy pedals he was creative. Compared to Jeff Loomis sure he sucks. But compared to the goofs from Coal Chamber and Crazy Town he's a f***ing guitar god. I see your point, but MY point still remains. When people talk about his 'greatness', they don't frame it in the nu-metal sense. They make it seem like he's the second coming of Jimi Hendrix or something. If people were to frame it as such, as you've suggested, then it would make more sense...although that's not saying much, since pretty much every nu-metal guitarist is awful. But all I ever hear about Wes is how innovative and great he is, despite the fact that he doesn't receive critical acclaim for anything he does currently in the music scene. No, he is not the second coming of Hendrix but who actually is? I actually liked nu-metal in general because it is a rhythm-driven style and I sort of dig that, though I primarily dug it when Wes was the one doing it. That is not to say that it was all him, as the first album without him had some riffs on it that I liked as well, but he was significantly better than most nu-metal guitarists. Would he fit in on any band in any era with any style like some truly transcendent guitarists would? No, but he did not have to. He does what he does and he does it well. I see no reason to dog on anyone for not going beyond that.
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Post by RedSmile on Jan 20, 2015 21:10:38 GMT -5
Real metal. Around the mid 2000s, look at all the bands that started to grow in popularity. You had guys like Arch Enemy, Lamb of God, Shadows Fall, God Forbid, and Dimmu Borgir becoming more visible. You also had hardcore/metalcore bands rising (and classic metal bands returning to fame to boot) Honestly, once the internet became more available and made it easier to access these bands, nu metal's days were numbered. Just look how fast the line up of Ozzfest changed from 2001 to 2004. Nu metal was the hardest music some people could get their hands on at one time. So once this happened, the genre never stood a chance. I was just coming in here to post that the real answer is metalcore, which isn't any better than nu-metal. Also, since when did it become cool to "hate" grunge? The big 4 of grunge are still quite popular, even more so than nu-metal's top bands at the peak of that genre's popularity. Especially Nirvana. Actually, the more correct answer is Gothenburg style Melodic Death Metal. That became the next big fad in metal. Especially after In Flames' Clayman came out in 2000, then it was off to the races and that whole genre was completely saturated. Then we started to get metalcore, which was very Gothenburg inspired.
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Post by RedSmile on Jan 20, 2015 21:30:21 GMT -5
I see your point, but MY point still remains. When people talk about his 'greatness', they don't frame it in the nu-metal sense. They make it seem like he's the second coming of Jimi Hendrix or something. If people were to frame it as such, as you've suggested, then it would make more sense...although that's not saying much, since pretty much every nu-metal guitarist is awful. But all I ever hear about Wes is how innovative and great he is, despite the fact that he doesn't receive critical acclaim for anything he does currently in the music scene. No, he is not the second coming of Hendrix but who actually is? I actually liked nu-metal in general because it is a rhythm-driven style and I sort of dig that, though I primarily dug it when Wes was the one doing it. That is not to say that it was all him, as the first album without him had some riffs on it that I liked as well, but he was significantly better than most nu-metal guitarists. Would he fit in on any band in any era with any style like some truly transcendent guitarists would? No, but he did not have to. He does what he does and he does it well. I see no reason to dog on anyone for not going beyond that. People gravitated towards Wes Borland because he was a pretty charismatic guy and he wore wacky face paint. He simply stood out among a lot of derivative musicians. Nu-metal itself was never a genre based in technicality or proficiency. It was angsty music pointed at angsty teenagers. That's the very reason why so many fans grew out of it. Nu-metal served as a gateway into a larger world of heavy metal. Those angsty teens discovered bands that were much more technically proficient, much more talented, more ambitious, and more mature. And just like that those fans demanded more from their heavy metal music. Besides, there is a reason why fans never outgrow albums like Rust in Peace, Spiritual Healing, Painkiller, and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. Also, to point out, there have been talented people involved in nu-metal. -Max Cavalera from Soulfly was a core member of Sepultura where his talent was at its peak -Wayne Static from Static-X developed a sound that was a little less derivative and managed to stand out more -Robb Flynn from Machine Head has some talent, shined in Vio-lence, but seems content to chase trends. -The band, Fear Factory, also dabbled in Nu-metal, but are still generally well thought of as musicians. -The band Kittie was said to be a big influence for lady musicians getting into metal.
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