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Post by Brian Suntan on Feb 9, 2015 14:27:55 GMT -5
This board has lost it's mind since the Royal Rumble. In recent memory Vince has gotten behind Bryan, Rollins, Ambrose, Reigns and Wyatt. Anyone in NXT has a chance. There's a certain randomness to it and I'm sure there will be talented guys overlooked for whatever bullshit reason. But I can't believe in 2015 we're back to 'Vince only loves hosses', when it so obviously isn't true. He doesn't 'only love hosses,' but his idea for a very top guy is very definitely still size and physique-driven. Not a hoss, necessarily, but a tall guy with a lot of muscle mass and definition. He still sees the worth in smaller guys and always has, but unless his hand is somewhat forced, he'd never consider building the company around them. Of those you mentioned: - He had to be blackmailed by the fans into running with Bryan, and still tried to brush him aside in favour of someone with more traditional star quality this year. - Rollins may be prominent but Rumble title match (where he still ended up taking the pin) aside he's been booked as an ineffectual coward who can't beat anyone important without help, - Ambrose's main event matches seemed designed to derail his momentum so the fans didn't see him as an alternative to Reigns - Reigns and Wyatt are both 6 foot 3 and over 250 pounds, they might not be hosses in the traditional sense, but these days they're definitely among the bigger guys, plus Wyatt was made to look like shit relative to Cena. The question wasn't who is he going to build the company around. It was who he's going to get behind and push. The idea that he hasn't gotten behind Bryan (a four time World Champion who has been prominently featured since the day he debuted and loses clean about as often as Cena does), Rollins (pushed to the moon as part of The Shield, imminently about to win his first World Title) and Ambrose (again pushed huge as The Shield, main-evented a PPV in a singles match as recently as December) is ridiculous. Meanwhile, what were the Mason Ryan's of this world doing?
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Feb 9, 2015 14:37:15 GMT -5
He doesn't 'only love hosses,' but his idea for a very top guy is very definitely still size and physique-driven. Not a hoss, necessarily, but a tall guy with a lot of muscle mass and definition. He still sees the worth in smaller guys and always has, but unless his hand is somewhat forced, he'd never consider building the company around them. Of those you mentioned: - He had to be blackmailed by the fans into running with Bryan, and still tried to brush him aside in favour of someone with more traditional star quality this year. - Rollins may be prominent but Rumble title match (where he still ended up taking the pin) aside he's been booked as an ineffectual coward who can't beat anyone important without help, - Ambrose's main event matches seemed designed to derail his momentum so the fans didn't see him as an alternative to Reigns - Reigns and Wyatt are both 6 foot 3 and over 250 pounds, they might not be hosses in the traditional sense, but these days they're definitely among the bigger guys, plus Wyatt was made to look like shit relative to Cena. The question wasn't who is he going to build the company around. It was who he's going to get behind and push. The idea that he hasn't gotten behind Bryan (a four time World Champion who has been prominently featured since the day he debuted and loses clean about as often as Cena does), Rollins (pushed to the moon as part of The Shield, imminently about to win his first World Title) and Ambrose (again pushed huge as The Shield, main-evented a PPV in a singles match as recently as December) is ridiculous. Meanwhile, what were the Mason Ryan's of this world doing? The Shield are WWE's shiny toys, but Bryan as prominently featured as he is, has never been treated as a guy to beat. What was Mason Ryan doing? He was on NXT being over protected and kept strong for no real reason in the hopes that he'd eventually pull it all together until they were forced to give up on him because of money problems/The actual Batista coming back making him redundant. It Pisses me off that so much NxT screen time went to that guy when there were other guys in NXT AND the main roster who could've used that time.
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gr1990
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Post by gr1990 on Feb 9, 2015 17:16:04 GMT -5
The question wasn't who is he going to build the company around. It was who he's going to get behind and push. The idea that he hasn't gotten behind Bryan (a four time World Champion who has been prominently featured since the day he debuted and loses clean about as often as Cena does), Rollins (pushed to the moon as part of The Shield, imminently about to win his first World Title) and Ambrose (again pushed huge as The Shield, main-evented a PPV in a singles match as recently as December) is ridiculous. Meanwhile, what were the Mason Ryan's of this world doing? The Shield are WWE's shiny toys, but Bryan as prominently featured as he is, has never been treated as a guy to beat. What was Mason Ryan doing? He was on NXT being over protected and kept strong for no real reason in the hopes that he'd eventually pull it all together until they were forced to give up on him because of money problems/The actual Batista coming back making him redundant. It Pisses me off that so much NxT screen time went to that guy when there were other guys in NXT AND the main roster who could've used that time. This is what it comes down to. Guys with a 'big time' look get chance after chance to succeed, less traditional guys grudgingly get the odd main event here and there due to being over in the hope it will satisfy the fans so Vince can move onto his latest project, which is almost invariably a bigger guy. Bryan and Punk are the two most over babyfaces of the last five years; Punk never headlined Wrestlemania and seldom main evented PPVs as champion (unless he was wrestling a 'real' star like Cena or Rock), Bryan never would have done either if Vince had his way.
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Post by avenger on Feb 9, 2015 17:51:52 GMT -5
Mason Ryan won four singles matches on Raw and Smackdown, and only ever won jobber squashes on NXT. He was hardly given chance after chance to succeed. Punk held the title for longer than anyone since the 1980s, and anyone in the era of monthly PPVs and weekly shows where almost every match is competitive.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Feb 9, 2015 17:56:29 GMT -5
A bigger example of Vince love for hosses would be Ezekiel Jackson.
Was last ECW Champion, was fed the whole Corre, showed that this right here is Domination,never drew a dime.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Feb 9, 2015 18:51:02 GMT -5
The Shield are WWE's shiny toys, but Bryan as prominently featured as he is, has never been treated as a guy to beat. What was Mason Ryan doing? He was on NXT being over protected and kept strong for no real reason in the hopes that he'd eventually pull it all together until they were forced to give up on him because of money problems/The actual Batista coming back making him redundant. It Pisses me off that so much NxT screen time went to that guy when there were other guys in NXT AND the main roster who could've used that time. This is what it comes down to. Guys with a 'big time' look get chance after chance to succeed, less traditional guys grudgingly get the odd main event here and there due to being over in the hope it will satisfy the fans so Vince can move onto his latest project, which is almost invariably a bigger guy. Bryan and Punk are the two most over babyfaces of the last five years; Punk never headlined Wrestlemania and seldom main evented PPVs as champion (unless he was wrestling a 'real' star like Cena or Rock), Bryan never would have done either if Vince had his way. When did Mason Ryan get 'chance after chance' to succeed? If you disregard all the times Vince pushes smaller guys, all he does is push big guys. These guys who apparently Vince is giving token pushes to (Ambrose, Rollins, Bryan and Wyatt) were in the main event of all but three PPV's last year. When Vince gave his famous 'brass rings' comment the other month, the people he specifically mentioned as not being worthless millenials were Ambrose, Rollins, Reigns and Wyatt. He did not say Ryback, Eric Rowan, Titus O'Neal and Big E Langston. Do you not get even the slightest impression that he might just be behind these guys?
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Hypnosis
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Post by Hypnosis on Feb 9, 2015 19:09:36 GMT -5
A bigger example of Vince love for hosses would be Ezekiel Jackson. Was last ECW Champion, was fed the whole Corre, showed that this right here is Domination,never drew a dime. Also, he had no cuts.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Feb 9, 2015 20:04:39 GMT -5
Mason Ryan won four singles matches on Raw and Smackdown, and only ever won jobber squashes on NXT. He was hardly given chance after chance to succeed. Punk held the title for longer than anyone since the 1980s, and anyone in the era of monthly PPVs and weekly shows where almost every match is competitive. No one wrestles jobber squashes anymore except for the guys that WWE REALLY wants to make look good and dominant. You don't see random local indy guys or low level NXT dregs being used to put over a junior heavyweight or the 6'3, 250 lb "FCW clones". A bigger example of Vince love for hosses would be Ezekiel Jackson. Was last ECW Champion, was fed the whole Corre, showed that this right here is Domination,never drew a dime. Nah, I'd say Mason is still the bigger example. In spite of all of that Big Zeke was given, WWE actually realized he wasn't getting over for whatever reason and started jobbing him out. The guy actually has a loss on RAW to David Otunga, one of the weakest booked featured talents on the roster.
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Post by Starshine on Feb 9, 2015 20:13:21 GMT -5
Mason Ryan won four singles matches on Raw and Smackdown, and only ever won jobber squashes on NXT. He was hardly given chance after chance to succeed. Punk held the title for longer than anyone since the 1980s, and anyone in the era of monthly PPVs and weekly shows where almost every match is competitive. No one wrestles jobber squashes anymore except for the guys that WWE REALLY wants to make look good and dominant. You don't see random local indy guys or low level NXT dregs being used to put over a junior heavyweight or the 6'3, 250 lb "FCW clones". A bigger example of Vince love for hosses would be Ezekiel Jackson. Was last ECW Champion, was fed the whole Corre, showed that this right here is Domination,never drew a dime. Nah, I'd say Mason is still the bigger example. In spite of all of that Big Zeke was given, WWE actually realized he wasn't getting over for whatever reason and started jobbing him out. The guy actually has a loss on RAW to David Otunga, one of the weakest booked featured talents on the roster. Make that two losses within a single week. Both were under 2 minutes long, and it only a few months after his IC title reign. It was really weird seeing this guy they'd pushed fairly hard in the middle of 2011 losing to Otunga and Hunico clean. I'd honestly love to know what he did that caused him to fall so far from grace.
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StuntGranny®
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Post by StuntGranny® on Feb 9, 2015 20:15:53 GMT -5
Find the worst, most uninteresting guy on the roster (In my opinion that would be Bull Dempsey or Baron Corbin). That is most definitely the guy Vince would love.
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gr1990
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Post by gr1990 on Feb 9, 2015 20:17:42 GMT -5
This is what it comes down to. Guys with a 'big time' look get chance after chance to succeed, less traditional guys grudgingly get the odd main event here and there due to being over in the hope it will satisfy the fans so Vince can move onto his latest project, which is almost invariably a bigger guy. Bryan and Punk are the two most over babyfaces of the last five years; Punk never headlined Wrestlemania and seldom main evented PPVs as champion (unless he was wrestling a 'real' star like Cena or Rock), Bryan never would have done either if Vince had his way. When did Mason Ryan get 'chance after chance' to succeed? If you disregard all the times Vince pushes smaller guys, all he does is push big guys. These guys who apparently Vince is giving token pushes to (Ambrose, Rollins, Bryan and Wyatt) were in the main event of all but three PPV's last year. When Vince gave his famous 'brass rings' comment the other month, the people he specifically mentioned as not being worthless millenials were Ambrose, Rollins, Reigns and Wyatt. He did not say Ryback, Eric Rowan, Titus O'Neal and Big E Langston. Do you not get even the slightest impression that he might just be behind these guys? As I've said, it's not as if he doesn't see the worth in smaller guys, or pushes every big guy that comes his way to the moon, but there's a definite ceiling on what he thinks a guy with a non-traditional superstar look can achieve, and it's the one Punk and Bryan have found themselves bumping against in recent years. Ambrose's PPV main events were the worst thing that could have happened to him. Imagine someone like Sami Zayn getting the sort of push Roman Reigns has had. It just doesn't happen. It's not smark whining, it's the reality, and recent events have underlined the extent to which it's still the case.
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Post by avenger on Feb 9, 2015 21:32:08 GMT -5
Mason Ryan won four singles matches on Raw and Smackdown, and only ever won jobber squashes on NXT. He was hardly given chance after chance to succeed. Punk held the title for longer than anyone since the 1980s, and anyone in the era of monthly PPVs and weekly shows where almost every match is competitive. No one wrestles jobber squashes anymore except for the guys that WWE REALLY wants to make look good and dominant. You don't see random local indy guys or low level NXT dregs being used to put over a junior heavyweight or the 6'3, 250 lb "FCW clones". Not true, a quick look at Danny Burch, Camacho and pre-Team BAM Wesley Blake on cagematch.net shows that as well as putting over Ryan, they also put over Adrian Neville, Tyler Breeze, Adam Rose and Aiden English. Jackson was booked a lot stronger than Mason Ryan ever was.
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Post by Nic Nemeth on Feb 10, 2015 5:59:33 GMT -5
I honestly see Big Cass becoming a main-eventer one day.
He has mic skills and the look. He sucks in the ring but they'll book him like they book Ryback with quick squashes.
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Madagascar Fred
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Feb 10, 2015 6:15:30 GMT -5
Finn, Cass and Corbin are definately Vince's type
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 10, 2015 6:23:59 GMT -5
...and a guy that no-one has mentioned so far - Jason Jordan. That's because he's been there about three and a half years and he's done basically nothing. Just looked it up... he's had only THREE TV wins in NXT in that whole time, the last being in June 2014. Kind of an "out of sight, out of mind" kind of deal here. That said, it could turn around at the drop of a hat. For example, Baron Corbin was a guy who was just a jobber for a long time until one week, he wasn't.
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Post by avenger on Feb 10, 2015 6:53:43 GMT -5
...and a guy that no-one has mentioned so far - Jason Jordan. That's because he's been there about three and a half years and he's done basically nothing. Just looked it up... he's had only THREE TV wins in NXT in that whole time, the last being in June 2014. Kind of an "out of sight, out of mind" kind of deal here. That said, it could turn around at the drop of a hat. For example, Baron Corbin was a guy who was just a jobber for a long time until one week, he wasn't. The guy has the look, the physique, and an amateur wrestling background. Aiden English did it on a more regular basis, then that was all forgotten when he got a theme and a push. That and he's only been wrestling three and a half years. Konnor spent longer that than in developmental.
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