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Post by Mayonnaise on Feb 19, 2015 15:59:05 GMT -5
Jeff is still their top ticket mover (which I cannot decided is good for TNA or just sad for Jjeff) and by far their top merch. guy. They need him far more than he needs them. What I would expect is a rotation with him and Angle, both being part time. TNA saves money, has the draws they need and the can still merchandise the hell out of them.
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Post by Chip Chipperson on Feb 19, 2015 16:03:54 GMT -5
Just to make a second point I think Jeff Hardy is the biggest ball that TNA has ever dropped. In 2010 you have Jeff debut on your hottest Impact ever, he's fresh out of WWE, was their number 2 baby face and was doing absolutely phenomenally for the WWE. TNA manages to get a WWE main eventer in his prime and they don't make him their John Cena or even market him that well instead turning him heel and allowing him to become "just another guy". Jeff Hardy should have been their John Cena and to this day he should have only lost clean once maybe twice. In classic TNA fashion he's lost to everyone ranging from EC3 to Magnus. I don't know if you can take a guy your fans saw for years as a star elsewhere, make them your top babyface and have it truly work. WCW tried that with Hogan and it didn't click until Hogan went heel and you had "WCW guys" like Sting and later on Goldberg positioned against him. Not to say TNA hasn't booked Hardy poorly but I don't think he, or any "WWE guy", could have been their John Cena. Not to mention his drug issues and generally poor mic skills. With TNA I think it's a necessity that the guy is a star elsewhere. TNA can't build their own stars and even with fantastic booking they wouldn't be able to because the WWE has triple (quadruple?) the audience. I'm not against pushing the homegrown guys. The main event feud from January onward should have been AJ Styles and Ric Flair Vs Hulk Hogan and Jeff Hardy before eventually breaking off into AJ Styles Vs Jeff Hardy. After that you have at least 10 fresh match ups for Jeff to have which with correct booking could have been at least a year and a half of television.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Feb 19, 2015 17:24:22 GMT -5
Not in TNA no. Nobody is worth anything there. He needs to get back to WWE as soon as possible, work out a limited date schedule, and get into some money feuds with Bryan, Balor, Zayn, Rollins, Ambrose, Wyatt etc.... Naw. I'm good. If you want those guys to actually be successful and get their spotlight, you'll want Jeff Hardy to stay the eff away from WWE. I don't want to see Jeff Hardy getting the demigod treatment, put on a pedestal above the rest of the roster and eating up huge chunks of TV time just because WWE has a nostalgia boner.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Feb 19, 2015 17:28:06 GMT -5
Not in TNA no. Nobody is worth anything there. He needs to get back to WWE as soon as possible, work out a limited date schedule, and get into some money feuds with Bryan, Balor, Zayn, Rollins, Ambrose, Wyatt etc.... Naw. I'm good. If you want those guys to actually be successful and get their spotlight, you'll want Jeff Hardy to stay the eff away from WWE. I don't want to see Jeff Hardy getting the demigod treatment, put on a pedestal above the rest of the roster and eating up huge chunks of TV time just because WWE has a nostalgia boner. I think re-hiring Jeff would be more of a making money boner than a nostalgia one.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Feb 19, 2015 17:40:31 GMT -5
At this rate with the zero budget the company has, the roster will consist of guys who'll work for expired coupons and a half eaten old boot.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Feb 19, 2015 18:57:42 GMT -5
That's just it, Hogan did work on a business sense. If you compare the numbers on PPV buyrates from the last WCW PPV before Hogan and then the first WCW PPV with Hogan there was a huge increase. There TV ratings did the same thing and until Austin and the Rock took off, WCW got monster over using former WWE guys Hogan, Savage, Hall, Nash, and Piper as a major part of it. WCW didn't get monster over until those ex-WWE guys were for the most part used as heels. That's my point. I'm not saying you can't use guys that are associated with another company and make money off them, I just don't think it will really work if they are used as the franchise babyface. Wrestling has pretty much always been built around the local/homegrown hero. Even if marketed perfectly, I don't think Jeff Hardy would have taken TNA to the next level as the face of the company. WCW was over enough to put Vince in a financial bind to unable resign Hall and Nash. Sure Hogan cartoonish act as a face that no sold everything and won is crazy ways like how he beat Vader in a strap match for example wasn't that great but Piper as a face worked well and so did Savage. I do believe Jeff would have worked because he has a cult following that a lot of guys don't. Both his first run and second run he had a following that if TNA was smart could have build off of that.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 19, 2015 21:56:45 GMT -5
Vince likes Money Jeff Hardy makes Vince money. Vince hire Jeff Hardy. Yea but it's the thing of does Jeff Hardy like his "creative freedom" in TNA more then he would want to go back to WWE.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Feb 19, 2015 22:03:10 GMT -5
Vince likes Money Jeff Hardy makes Vince money. Vince hire Jeff Hardy. Yea but it's the thing of does Jeff Hardy like his "creative freedom" in TNA more then he would want to go back to WWE. Yeah freedom, freedom to. *imitates smoking Marijuna*
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Post by joeiscool on Feb 20, 2015 10:48:30 GMT -5
Jeff Hardy is tna's biggest seller of Merch. Even when he was willow...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 11:36:12 GMT -5
Kinda in between on that one. Hardy is worth it, but not with TNA writing for him and Hardy is the kind of guy who needs a lot of handling and specific storylines to be at his best. I don't think TNA can provide that.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Feb 20, 2015 14:42:39 GMT -5
That's just it, Hogan did work on a business sense. If you compare the numbers on PPV buyrates from the last WCW PPV before Hogan and then the first WCW PPV with Hogan there was a huge increase. There TV ratings did the same thing and until Austin and the Rock took off, WCW got monster over using former WWE guys Hogan, Savage, Hall, Nash, and Piper as a major part of it. WCW didn't get monster over until those ex-WWE guys were for the most part used as heels. That's my point. I'm not saying you can't use guys that are associated with another company and make money off them, I just don't think it will really work if they are used as the franchise babyface. Wrestling has pretty much always been built around the local/homegrown hero. Even if marketed perfectly, I don't think Jeff Hardy would have taken TNA to the next level as the face of the company. Most of the ex-WWE guys who were used as heels to put guys over were also in their 40s. Jeff Hardy is only 37, which means in 2009 he was 32, had not held the WWE title, and was in a perfect position to be turned into the franchise, at least for a while as they built up other guys on their roster. They failed to do either.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 20, 2015 14:49:19 GMT -5
WCW didn't get monster over until those ex-WWE guys were for the most part used as heels. That's my point. I'm not saying you can't use guys that are associated with another company and make money off them, I just don't think it will really work if they are used as the franchise babyface. Wrestling has pretty much always been built around the local/homegrown hero. Even if marketed perfectly, I don't think Jeff Hardy would have taken TNA to the next level as the face of the company. Most of the ex-WWE guys who were used as heels to put guys over were also in their 40s. Jeff Hardy is only 37, which means in 2009 he was 32, had not held the WWE title, and was in a perfect position to be turned into the franchise, at least for a while as they built up other guys on their roster. They failed to do either. Jeff won WWE title in 2008.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Feb 20, 2015 15:10:11 GMT -5
Most of the ex-WWE guys who were used as heels to put guys over were also in their 40s. Jeff Hardy is only 37, which means in 2009 he was 32, had not held the WWE title, and was in a perfect position to be turned into the franchise, at least for a while as they built up other guys on their roster. They failed to do either. Jeff won WWE title in 2008. Oh, wow. That happened in the 2007-2009 window where I wasn't watching wrestling, I actually had zero clue that happened. My bad, but the rest still holds.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 20, 2015 15:16:35 GMT -5
Jeff won WWE title in 2008. Oh, wow. That happened in the 2007-2009 window where I wasn't watching wrestling, I actually had zero clue that happened. My bad, but the rest still holds. It's cool in that time span Jeff won the WWE title once in 2008 and World title twice in 2009 I believe. That's why he was such a big snag for TNA considering he was world champ and in a main event feud with Punk before he left.
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Post by Chip Chipperson on Feb 20, 2015 17:49:32 GMT -5
I think him being WWE Champion adds to his legitimacy. You have Hardy beat AJ for the belt in say April-May of 2010 and you then can start putting Jeff over as a guy who won all three of wrestling's top titles in a 2 year period. You then could have interviews with Hardy talking about how he's in the prime of his life and just wants to keep impressing people. That's a time where in my opinion it's okay to mention the WWE because it's helping get him over and add legitimacy to him.
I'd love to know why they held off on a Hardy super push because to me it's a no brainer. Hardy should have been treated as more important than Hulk Hogan to be honest and it probably should have been Hardy front and center on all of TNA's advertising materials, programs, posters, commercials etc etc.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 20, 2015 17:56:50 GMT -5
I think him being WWE Champion adds to his legitimacy. You have Hardy beat AJ for the belt in say April-May of 2010 and you then can start putting Jeff over as a guy who won all three of wrestling's top titles in a 2 year period. You then could have interviews with Hardy talking about how he's in the prime of his life and just wants to keep impressing people. That's a time where in my opinion it's okay to mention the WWE because it's helping get him over and add legitimacy to him. I'd love to know why they held off on a Hardy super push because to me it's a no brainer. Hardy should have been treated as more important than Hulk Hogan to be honest and it probably should have been Hardy front and center on all of TNA's advertising materials, programs, posters, commercials etc etc. In the mind of TNA, Jeff Hardy just being on their show was enough for them I believe. Dixie has a warped since of just because Hulk was the biggest name ever doesn't mean he moves the needle now at least not on your stage he will. Jeff and Aj should of been the 1 & 2 in whatever order you want to put them in with supporting cast of Joe, Roode, Storm, Sting (playing role of taker), RVD, etc... Jeff was literally on the cusp of superstardom before he left WWE and then TNA debuts him with Shannon Moore and he becomes "another guy".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 17:57:46 GMT -5
I still can't believe TNA got *the* guy in pro wrestling in 2009 and managed to tear him down to umbrella waving fool for a while. Logically, Jeff signing should have been a watershed moment for TNA. They should have been able to turn around and go "Hey fans, you want to see the amazing Jeff Hardy, well you can, only on Impact!". I mean TNA wanted to persist with pushing him despite the possible impending conviction, so why not maximise it? Just have a staffer make sure he's clean, send him out, let him do his thing, and the crowds keep coming. But no. Apparently the smart thing to do was slowly chip away at his popularity, not make him a megastar when he walks in, and 9 months later turn the guy who had been the most over face in America heel. Jeff Hardy will forever be a monument to TNA's inability to do something right. Yup but at least Jeff Hardy turned out to be a pretty amazing heel.
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Post by Chip Chipperson on Feb 20, 2015 18:12:06 GMT -5
I think him being WWE Champion adds to his legitimacy. You have Hardy beat AJ for the belt in say April-May of 2010 and you then can start putting Jeff over as a guy who won all three of wrestling's top titles in a 2 year period. You then could have interviews with Hardy talking about how he's in the prime of his life and just wants to keep impressing people. That's a time where in my opinion it's okay to mention the WWE because it's helping get him over and add legitimacy to him. I'd love to know why they held off on a Hardy super push because to me it's a no brainer. Hardy should have been treated as more important than Hulk Hogan to be honest and it probably should have been Hardy front and center on all of TNA's advertising materials, programs, posters, commercials etc etc. In the mind of TNA, Jeff Hardy just being on their show was enough for them I believe. Dixie has a warped since of just because Hulk was the biggest name ever doesn't mean he moves the needle now at least not on your stage he will. Jeff and Aj should of been the 1 & 2 in whatever order you want to put them in with supporting cast of Joe, Roode, Storm, Sting (playing role of taker), RVD, etc... Jeff was literally on the cusp of superstardom before he left WWE and then TNA debuts him with Shannon Moore and he becomes "another guy". That's always been TNA's problem (The expecting people to tune in simply because X is on the show). It's why they stopped promoting Hulk Hogan after January 4th. I guess they just assumed that the whole world knew about it. With Hardy even the most basic booking would have worked. Pair him up with Hogan, put Flair with AJ (Without the lame AJ ripping off Flair stuff) and let them go to war. Eventually you phase out Hogan allowing him to go elsewhere in the company and you build to a hot AJ/Hardy cage match at Lockdown where Hardy wins the feud. If you go with this and market it properly (Billboards, Commercials etc featuring Hardy) you probably pull in a lot of Hardy's fans from the WWE and your rating probably doesn't drop. After that you have countless fresh matches for Hardy with the likes of Angle, Rob Van Dam, Sting, Joe, Anderson, Daniels and countless others. Eventually you could have Hardy drop the belt and he could do the Hardy Boys reunion thing for a couple months before winning the belt again. Incredibly silly by TNA. I still can't believe TNA got *the* guy in pro wrestling in 2009 and managed to tear him down to umbrella waving fool for a while. Logically, Jeff signing should have been a watershed moment for TNA. They should have been able to turn around and go "Hey fans, you want to see the amazing Jeff Hardy, well you can, only on Impact!". I mean TNA wanted to persist with pushing him despite the possible impending conviction, so why not maximise it? Just have a staffer make sure he's clean, send him out, let him do his thing, and the crowds keep coming. But no. Apparently the smart thing to do was slowly chip away at his popularity, not make him a megastar when he walks in, and 9 months later turn the guy who had been the most over face in America heel. Jeff Hardy will forever be a monument to TNA's inability to do something right. Yup but at least Jeff Hardy turned out to be a pretty amazing heel. He was a good heel but how quick did it happen? 9 or 10 months after he returned. We should probably only be learning about how good of a heel Hardy is now in 2015 because TNA (If they were smart) would have had fresh heels for Jeff to go against for these past 5 years and only now would he be getting stale as a face.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 20, 2015 18:23:05 GMT -5
He hasn't mattered at all.
That's probably more on them than him really, as his last stint in the E he was over as hell; but nah, he hasn't made a bit of difference.
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