WWE to young wrestlers: stay away from ROH and TNA...

[Johnny Flamingo]

Jun 12, 2015 21:21:10 GMT -5 devondragon said:

I think you misunderstand the difference between unethical and illegal. There is nothing legally wrong with WWE making that statement. But it's morally wrong.

No I understand the difference between both and I don't find this morally wrong. They are a business and are doing what they feel they need to do to protect their business interest. I have no problem with that.

[2coldMack is even more baffled]

Jun 12, 2015 22:33:32 GMT -5 Johnny Flamingo said:

Jun 12, 2015 21:21:10 GMT -5 devondragon said:

I think you misunderstand the difference between unethical and illegal. There is nothing legally wrong with WWE making that statement. But it's morally wrong.

No I understand the difference between both and I don't find this morally wrong. They are a business and are doing what they feel they need to do to protect their business interest. I have no problem with that.

Yep, using unfair leverage and veiled threats to drive potential talent away from companies that are in no way threats. Totally ethical behavior.

[Johnny Flamingo]

Jun 12, 2015 22:40:26 GMT -5 2coldMack is even more baffled said:

Jun 12, 2015 22:33:32 GMT -5 Johnny Flamingo said:

No I understand the difference between both and I don't find this morally wrong. They are a business and are doing what they feel they need to do to protect their business interest. I have no problem with that.

Yep, using unfair leverage and veiled threats to drive potential talent away from companies that are in no way threats. Totally ethical behavior.

I see it more as WWE and Mattel have a very profitable deal that is one of the better deal for both companies.

Ring of Honor signs a deal with another company that has a deal that includes likeness rights for a set period of time. Because of that deal MAttel is unhappy as they want first rights to use the likeness of a WWE star if he/she becomes a character that can move merchandise. They do no want another company having access to that star and potentially hurting their very protected bottom line.

WWE acknowledges and understands this complaint. Due to this they advise wrestlers to not enter into a partnership with ROH that would potentially upset one of their very valuable partners.

Nothing unethical about that. Simple business and its one of the reasons why you need to understand all effects of any business deals you may sign.

WWE is at least having the courtesy to warn wrestlers beforehand before they sign a deal that could potentially hurt their career. Plenty of other places to work and I would assume still ways to wrestle for ROH without doing something that WWE or one of their partners would frown upon.

[2coldMack is even more baffled]

Jun 12, 2015 22:51:32 GMT -5 Johnny Flamingo said:

Jun 12, 2015 22:40:26 GMT -5 2coldMack is even more baffled said:

Yep, using unfair leverage and veiled threats to drive potential talent away from companies that are in no way threats. Totally ethical behavior.

I see it more as WWE and Mattel have a very profitable deal that is one of the better deal for both companies.

Ring of Honor signs a deal with another company that has a deal that includes likeness rights for a set period of time. Because of that deal MAttel is unhappy as they want first rights to use the likeness of a WWE star if he/she becomes a character that can move merchandise. They do no want another company having access to that star and potentially hurting their very protected bottom line.

WWE acknowledges and understands this complaint. Due to this they advise wrestlers to not enter into a partnership with ROH that would potentially upset one of their very valuable partners.

Nothing unethical about that. Simple business and its one of the reasons why you need to understand all effects of any business deals you may sign.

WWE is at least having the courtesy to warn wrestlers beforehand before they sign a deal that could potentially hurt their career. Plenty of other places to work and I would assume still ways to wrestle for ROH without doing something that WWE or one of their partners would frown upon.

"Plenty of other places to work" Bullshit. For most indy guys, ROH is their best bet of a substantial, regular payday. Name a single other indy company that can probably pay what ROH pays their guys on the regular. What WWE is telling young talents is "Don't take this paycheck now, on the off chance we MAY want to give you one later". It's a threat, plain and simple.

[Johnny Flamingo]

Jun 12, 2015 22:56:37 GMT -5 2coldMack is even more baffled said:

Jun 12, 2015 22:51:32 GMT -5 Johnny Flamingo said:

I see it more as WWE and Mattel have a very profitable deal that is one of the better deal for both companies.

Ring of Honor signs a deal with another company that has a deal that includes likeness rights for a set period of time. Because of that deal MAttel is unhappy as they want first rights to use the likeness of a WWE star if he/she becomes a character that can move merchandise. They do no want another company having access to that star and potentially hurting their very protected bottom line.

WWE acknowledges and understands this complaint. Due to this they advise wrestlers to not enter into a partnership with ROH that would potentially upset one of their very valuable partners.

Nothing unethical about that. Simple business and its one of the reasons why you need to understand all effects of any business deals you may sign.

WWE is at least having the courtesy to warn wrestlers beforehand before they sign a deal that could potentially hurt their career. Plenty of other places to work and I would assume still ways to wrestle for ROH without doing something that WWE or one of their partners would frown upon.

"Plenty of other places to work" Bullshit. For most indy guys, ROH is their best bet of a substantial, regular payday. Name a single other indy company that can probably pay what ROH pays their guys on the regular. What WWE is telling young talents is "Don't take this paycheck now, on the off chance we MAY want to give you one later". It's a threat, plain and simple.

I'll admit ROH is the top indy but you can still do decent without them.

CZW is on pretty solid ground right now. I know Remix Pro has anual shows and has had some pretty big names (AJ Styles) come through so they are obviously paying well. If you are talented enough you can get work and get payed well through various promotions, as many have, in Mexico and Japan and do quite well. As much as ROH, probably not, but enough to survive long enough to see if WWE is actually a viable option.

What WWE is telling wrestlers is to be smart about what choices you make. If you are talented enough you will be able make a decent living until either WWE picks you up or until you realize that you aren't on WWE's radar, thus making ROH a viable option at that point.

If you do feel the need to sign with ROH to get by then sign with them but make sure the deal you sign doesn't handcuff you with a likeness agreement that will prevent WWE from acquiring your services.

WWE also offeres a pretty good bit of tryout camps and oppurtunities to showcase your talent. If you are what they are looking for they will find you quite quick. If the deal with evolve ends up happening it will give you another outlet to "tryout" for WWE.

And yes, sometimes it is best to think long term over short term. Will this ROH paycheck (and likeness) be worth it if it kills your chance with WWE. You also have to ask if WWE really wants you anyway.

At the end of the day wrestling is a business. ROH made a business descision and is trying to grow their company and I hope they do well as I enjoy their shows. However this is one of the things that happen when you grow and expand and I hope they were prepared for it. If not, it really is their own fault.

WWE has an interest to protect and are being very honoest about it. If a wrestler wants to be in WWE there are more oppurtunities now than before with the Performance Center, NXT and possible Evolve if that deal is correct. ROH is not needed to meet this end game. If you want to get to WWE you now know what route to take. If you don't want to try that route ROH is still there as a viable alternative if either your aren't talented enought or don't have the look/style that WWE wants.

No one is stopping anyone from joining a WWE tryout camp. Will let you know very quick if WWE thinks you are what they want. If not, pursue other options (such as ROH, CZW, Mexico or Japan) and if you are good enough/have the skillset and look they want, in time WWE will give reach out to you.

No one is getting hurt as the options are there and young wrestlers simply have to weigh the risks/options associated with their choices and decide which path they want to choose. If I knew someone who wanted to wrestle I would advise them to sign up for a WWE tryout camp if WWE was their end game. If they didn't believe WWE would ever be a viable option I would advise them to seek out a reputable school, get trained and try and get on with a company like ROH.

I also don't intend to disrespect TNA but with their questionable future I didn't mention them.

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

Jun 13, 2015 0:37:18 GMT -5 Johnny Flamingo said:

Jun 12, 2015 22:56:37 GMT -5 2coldMack is even more baffled said:

"Plenty of other places to work" Bullshit. For most indy guys, ROH is their best bet of a substantial, regular payday. Name a single other indy company that can probably pay what ROH pays their guys on the regular. What WWE is telling young talents is "Don't take this paycheck now, on the off chance we MAY want to give you one later". It's a threat, plain and simple.

I'll admit ROH is the top indy but you can still do decent without them.

CZW is on pretty solid ground right now. I know Remix Pro has anual shows and has had some pretty big names (AJ Styles) come through so they are obviously paying well. If you are talented enough you can get work and get payed well through various promotions, as many have, in Mexico and Japan and do quite well. As much as ROH, probably not, but enough to survive long enough to see if WWE is actually a viable option.

What WWE is telling wrestlers is to be smart about what choices you make. If you are talented enough you will be able make a decent living until either WWE picks you up or until you realize that you aren't on WWE's radar, thus making ROH a viable option at that point.

If you do feel the need to sign with ROH to get by then sign with them but make sure the deal you sign doesn't handcuff you with a likeness agreement that will prevent WWE from acquiring your services.

WWE also offeres a pretty good bit of tryout camps and oppurtunities to showcase your talent. If you are what they are looking for they will find you quite quick. If the deal with evolve ends up happening it will give you another outlet to "tryout" for WWE.

And yes, sometimes it is best to think long term over short term. Will this ROH paycheck (and likeness) be worth it if it kills your chance with WWE. You also have to ask if WWE really wants you anyway.

At the end of the day wrestling is a business. ROH made a business descision and is trying to grow their company and I hope they do well as I enjoy their shows. However this is one of the things that happen when you grow and expand and I hope they were prepared for it. If not, it really is their own fault.

WWE has an interest to protect and are being very honoest about it. If a wrestler wants to be in WWE there are more oppurtunities now than before with the Performance Center, NXT and possible Evolve if that deal is correct. ROH is not needed to meet this end game. If you want to get to WWE you now know what route to take. If you don't want to try that route ROH is still there as a viable alternative if either your aren't talented enought or don't have the look/style that WWE wants.

No one is stopping anyone from joining a WWE tryout camp. Will let you know very quick if WWE thinks you are what they want. If not, pursue other options (such as ROH, CZW, Mexico or Japan) and if you are good enough/have the skillset and look they want, in time WWE will give reach out to you.

No one is getting hurt as the options are there and young wrestlers simply have to weigh the risks/options associated with their choices and decide which path they want to choose. If I knew someone who wanted to wrestle I would advise them to sign up for a WWE tryout camp if WWE was their end game. If they didn't believe WWE would ever be a viable option I would advise them to seek out a reputable school, get trained and try and get on with a company like ROH.

I also don't intend to disrespect TNA but with their questionable future I didn't mention them.

So wrestlers should settle for RoH once they get the message that they aren't "good enough" for WWE?

[Deleted]

CZW? Solid ground?

Hell naw.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

At the end of the day, if WWE wants someone, they'll get them, whether they have a merchandise deal or not.

Someone good gets to the top of ROH and they want them, do you really think they'd turn them down because of that? For a figure they can instantly make irrelevant, it'll be in specialist shops, and a name change makes it look like a dollar store knockoff to the main audience, kids. Show a kid a Kevin Steen figure, you might as well show him a Steve Rollins one.

[Emmet Russell]

Jun 13, 2015 2:20:01 GMT -5 @doge said:

CZW? Solid ground?

Hell naw.

CZW is a good product, it's just overlooked by many because of it's "garbage" match history - they rarely do those matches anymore and when they do they save them for the main event or TOD.

Gulak, Busick, The Young Bucks, OI4K, AR Fox, Joe Gacy, Jonathon Gresham - They've got a wealth of talent. Adam Cole was trained there, Sami Callihan (Solomon Crowe) made his name there. Best of the Best is often one of the top indy shows of the year. They put on good shows monthly, but they're still overlooked; it's a shame.

I'd say it's pretty solid ground. It's been around since 1999 non-stop and doesn't seem to be disappearing anywhere in a hurry.

[Johnny Flamingo]

Jun 13, 2015 2:05:19 GMT -5 CATCH_US IS the Conversation said:

So wrestlers should settle for RoH once they get the message that they aren't "good enough" for WWE?

In a manner of speaking, yes. If you need to develop in-ring skills then ROH is a pretty good place to go to as you are pretty much assured of having some high quality talent to work with.

On the flip side, if you are a worker who is talented but not exactly what WWE wants for whatever reason then ROH is a very good place to apply your trade as well. I don't find it hurts ROH tremendously as ROH is still able to get talent that wrestles styles that are a true alternative to WWE.

As I've said before, I really like ROH and I see them doing very well and I don't feel this will hurt them.

I'm a huge fan of Facade right now and he is easily my favorite wrestler in the US. With that said I don't see him having a skillset that will interest WWE at this time as his style is a direct clash to the "WWE style". I would love to see him go to ROH and grow in that company. Being with ROH would make him better due to the quality of guys he would work with every show.

Say he becomes a more well rounded worker in ROH and develops a big name. If he becomes a guy with name value like a Samoa Joe, Kevin Steen (Owens) or an AJ Styles that will bring in money quickly to WWE I have no doubt in my mind that WWE will sign him regardless of what deal has has with ROH.

At the end of the day WWE is in the business to make money and they won't miss out on money due to a ROH likeness deal. Now I could see them telling him that his likeness deal is through the year 2016 so they want to bring him in to developmental and work NXT house shows and Evolve shows and won't debut him until his deal is up.

Jun 13, 2015 2:20:01 GMT -5 @doge said:

CZW? Solid ground?

Hell naw.

As posted above, they have the stigma from their "garbage" days which is a shame because they have been running some very solid, well-rounded and well attended shows the past few years. Hell, even the guy who is main eventing WWE right now (Ambrose) is a former CZW guy.

[Red Impact]

We've sort of known about this for a while with TNA, altough it seemed like they were lifting it when news of TNA's demise was coming out.

They're trying to stifle and manipulate the competition with the threat of blackballing people who perform for them, with the main goal being to choke any talent out of it. I mean, imagine the NFL gets a bee in it's bonnet about college football's popularity. They don't want to have to compete with college sports for consumer dollars, so they pass a mandate that no team will draft any player from a college in a state that has an NFL franchise. Suddenly, you have the Ohio States and the Michigans and the USC's and the Florida State's of the country trying to recruit kids knowing that they'll have absolutely no career after football. It'd basically kill the sport at those schools.

IF this is true, this is what WWE is trying to do. They know that for 98% or so of indy talent, the dream has always been WWE star, as they are the biggest name in the game by far. Any wrestler would think twice about a company if they know that it's going to kill their future chances at WWE, and all because of something that isn't really competition for them. And when you get down to it, there's really no wrestling type that has zero chance in WWE when you look at the type of people they've brought in the past few years, other than hardcore wrestlers.

[Ruthless Pessimism]

Jun 13, 2015 8:41:04 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

We've sort of known about this for a while with TNA, altough it seemed like they were lifting it when news of TNA's demise was coming out.

They're trying to stifle and manipulate the competition with the threat of blackballing people who perform for them, with the main goal being to choke any talent out of it. I mean, imagine the NFL gets a bee in it's bonnet about college football's popularity. They don't want to have to compete with college sports for consumer dollars, so they pass a mandate that no team will draft any player from a college in a state that has an NFL franchise. Suddenly, you have the Ohio States and the Michigans and the USC's and the Florida State's of the country trying to recruit kids knowing that they'll have absolutely no career after football. It'd basically kill the sport at those schools.

IF this is true, this is what WWE is trying to do. They know that for 98% or so of indy talent, the dream has always been WWE star, as they are the biggest name in the game by far. Any wrestler would think twice about a company if they know that it's going to kill their future chances at WWE, and all because of something that isn't really competition for them. And when you get down to it, there's really no wrestling type that has zero chance in WWE when you look at the type of people they've brought in the past few years, other than hardcore wrestlers.

It comes down to this...if you want to take a shot at getting in the WWE, you follow their road. Nobody is forcing anyone to do it, nobody has a gun to their head over it. But it's that simple. Otherwise, work elsewhere and take your chances. The WWE is letting people know how it is from the start. But like someone else mentioned, if they really want someone bad enough, they'll make it work somehow.

[Red Impact]

Jun 13, 2015 17:39:11 GMT -5 Ruthless Pessimism said:

Jun 13, 2015 8:41:04 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

We've sort of known about this for a while with TNA, altough it seemed like they were lifting it when news of TNA's demise was coming out.

They're trying to stifle and manipulate the competition with the threat of blackballing people who perform for them, with the main goal being to choke any talent out of it. I mean, imagine the NFL gets a bee in it's bonnet about college football's popularity. They don't want to have to compete with college sports for consumer dollars, so they pass a mandate that no team will draft any player from a college in a state that has an NFL franchise. Suddenly, you have the Ohio States and the Michigans and the USC's and the Florida State's of the country trying to recruit kids knowing that they'll have absolutely no career after football. It'd basically kill the sport at those schools.

IF this is true, this is what WWE is trying to do. They know that for 98% or so of indy talent, the dream has always been WWE star, as they are the biggest name in the game by far. Any wrestler would think twice about a company if they know that it's going to kill their future chances at WWE, and all because of something that isn't really competition for them. And when you get down to it, there's really no wrestling type that has zero chance in WWE when you look at the type of people they've brought in the past few years, other than hardcore wrestlers.

It comes down to this...if you want to take a shot at getting in the WWE, you follow their road. Nobody is forcing anyone to do it, nobody has a gun to their head over it. But it's that simple. Otherwise, work elsewhere and take your chances. The WWE is letting people know how it is from the start. But like someone else mentioned, if they really want someone bad enough, they'll make it work somehow.

That's not the point, though. No one is saying that WWE can't do it, just that it's a shitty thing to do. "Their company, their rules" doesn't really change that it's a sleazy tactic for something extremely petty, especially when you consider how much they have RoH to thank for right now. And honestly, I really don't like the whole "No one is forcing them to do X" argument to absolve bad business behavior. Businesses deserve to be called out for the bad things they do, even if they aren't practicing indentured servitude. If WWE is taking advantage of the fact that they're holding a practical monopoly over wrestling in the US to institute a policy intended to screw over their competition, no matter how insignificant it may be, then that's something they deserve to be called out on.

[SAJ Forth]

Jun 10, 2015 19:14:03 GMT -5 @sigmax said:

WWE gettin their jimmies rustled that someone is actually climbing the ranks that might be a truly viable alternative.....good.

I agree with this fully.

[Ruthless Pessimism]

Jun 13, 2015 17:46:44 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

Jun 13, 2015 17:39:11 GMT -5 Ruthless Pessimism said:

It comes down to this...if you want to take a shot at getting in the WWE, you follow their road. Nobody is forcing anyone to do it, nobody has a gun to their head over it. But it's that simple. Otherwise, work elsewhere and take your chances. The WWE is letting people know how it is from the start. But like someone else mentioned, if they really want someone bad enough, they'll make it work somehow.

That's not the point, though. No one is saying that WWE can't do it, just that it's a shitty thing to do. "Their company, their rules" doesn't really change that it's a sleazy tactic for something extremely petty, especially when you consider how much they have RoH to thank for right now. And honestly, I really don't like the whole "No one is forcing them to do X" argument to absolve bad business behavior. Businesses deserve to be called out for the bad things they do, even if they aren't practicing indentured servitude. If WWE is taking advantage of the fact that they're holding a practical monopoly over wrestling in the US to institute a policy intended to screw over their competition, no matter how insignificant it may be, then that's something they deserve to be called out on.

Should the WWE sit back and send the message that people ought to go to a competitor instead? You may not like the argument but it's the truth, no one is forcing them to follow that path. That's the exact opposite of what a monopoly is, giving people freedom to go elsewhere. People are free to sign with whoever they want, be it RoH or Chikara or even the sinking ship that is TNA. There's Japan or countless indy feds in America. There's tons of places to work that isn't WWE. It's not indentured servitude, it's a WWE contract. And if you want one, you play by their rules.

[Deleted]

Jun 12, 2015 22:33:32 GMT -5 Johnny Flamingo said:

Jun 12, 2015 21:21:10 GMT -5 devondragon said:

I think you misunderstand the difference between unethical and illegal. There is nothing legally wrong with WWE making that statement. But it's morally wrong.

No I understand the difference between both and I don't find this morally wrong. They are a business and are doing what they feel they need to do to protect their business interest. I have no problem with that.

It's greedy and myopic. I don't know if that's morally wrong, but it's definitely those two things.

[Red Impact]

Jun 14, 2015 0:42:56 GMT -5 Ruthless Pessimism said:

Should the WWE sit back and send the message that people ought to go to a competitor instead? You may not like the argument but it's the truth, no one is forcing them to follow that path. That's the exact opposite of what a monopoly is, giving people freedom to go elsewhere. People are free to sign with whoever they want, be it RoH or Chikara or even the sinking ship that is TNA. There's Japan or countless indy feds in America. There's tons of places to work that isn't WWE. It's not indentured servitude, it's a WWE contract. And if you want one, you play by their rules.

Well... yeah, they should be encouraging young wrestlers to go there. I mean, they have RoH to thank for helping to develop Punk, Bryan, Rollins, Owens, Cesaro, Jimmy Jacobs, and Sara Del Ray. All fo these guys have significant roles in WWE, either as performers or backstage guys. When you have that many big names on one smalltime promotion, there's probably something to what they're doing to develop wrestlers. These are people who WWE didn't have to spend money to develop, to see if they were cut out for this business. It costs money to train people, and when those people flame ut, they're sunk costs. If someone cuts their teeth on the indy circuit, then suddenly WWE doesn't have to start from scratch, they can just swoop in and pick up guys who have already proven that they're able to perform. That's a good thing.

Let's get real here for a moment, we don't have a swath of indy guys who are decided between rerun of a show on a network that gets less than half penetration in the US and the biggest wrestling company in the world. WWE isn't losing valuable wrestlers to RoH. RoH has been more of a free Deep South or Ohio Valley for WWE. They're taking the bully pulpit against the company that helped create their top two heels and their two biggest stars of the past decade, because of an action figure that realistically isn't going to be cutting into WWE's bottom line at all.

If TNA has proven anything, it's that wrestling's numbers that aren't WWE are always going to be a fraction of WWE's, regardless of the network they're on. And DA's network penetration will ensure that they'll never, ever even be remotely a threat. That's the truth of the matter, WWE is to RoH as Walmart is to the local fishing store on the corner. Trying to squash it isn't going to increase their bottom line in any way that makes a dent on their bottom line one way or the other. In the meanwhile, they create a situation that's bad for wrestlers, bad for the industry, bad for fans, and ultimately bad for WWE as it robs them of the fed that has developed talent that has made them the bulk of their non-Cena money over the past five or so years.

And, again, the issue isn't whether WWE is legally allowed to, it's that it's a sleazy and stupid as shit thing to do. Saying they're not forcing anyone to take it is just avoiding the issue.

[Johnny Flamingo]

Jun 14, 2015 7:54:37 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

Jun 14, 2015 0:42:56 GMT -5 Ruthless Pessimism said:

Should the WWE sit back and send the message that people ought to go to a competitor instead? You may not like the argument but it's the truth, no one is forcing them to follow that path. That's the exact opposite of what a monopoly is, giving people freedom to go elsewhere. People are free to sign with whoever they want, be it RoH or Chikara or even the sinking ship that is TNA. There's Japan or countless indy feds in America. There's tons of places to work that isn't WWE. It's not indentured servitude, it's a WWE contract. And if you want one, you play by their rules.

Well... yeah, they should be encouraging young wrestlers to go there. I mean, they have RoH to thank for helping to develop Punk, Bryan, Rollins, Owens, Cesaro, Jimmy Jacobs, and Sara Del Ray. All fo these guys have significant roles in WWE, either as performers or backstage guys. When you have that many big names on one smalltime promotion, there's probably something to what they're doing to develop wrestlers. These are people who WWE didn't have to spend money to develop, to see if they were cut out for this business. It costs money to train people, and when those people flame ut, they're sunk costs. If someone cuts their teeth on the indy circuit, then suddenly WWE doesn't have to start from scratch, they can just swoop in and pick up guys who have already proven that they're able to perform. That's a good thing.

Let's get real here for a moment, we don't have a swath of indy guys who are decided between rerun of a show on a network that gets less than half penetration in the US and the biggest wrestling company in the world. WWE isn't losing valuable wrestlers to RoH. RoH has been more of a free Deep South or Ohio Valley for WWE. They're taking the bully pulpit against the company that helped create their top two heels and their two biggest stars of the past decade, because of an action figure that realistically isn't going to be cutting into WWE's bottom line at all.

If TNA has proven anything, it's that wrestling's numbers that aren't WWE are always going to be a fraction of WWE's, regardless of the network they're on. And DA's network penetration will ensure that they'll never, ever even be remotely a threat. That's the truth of the matter, WWE is to RoH as Walmart is to the local fishing store on the corner. Trying to squash it isn't going to increase their bottom line in any way that makes a dent on their bottom line one way or the other. In the meanwhile, they create a situation that's bad for wrestlers, bad for the industry, bad for fans, and ultimately bad for WWE as it robs them of the fed that has developed talent that has made them the bulk of their non-Cena money over the past five or so years.

And, again, the issue isn't whether WWE is legally allowed to, it's that it's a sleazy and stupid as shit thing to do. Saying they're not forcing anyone to take it is just avoiding the issue.

WWE isn't trying to squash ROH. They are simply trying to prevent ROH from coming out with a NEW toy/T-shirt or piece of merchandise once a wrestler has signed with WWE.

As an example: Wrestler A signs with ROH and gives them a 5 year likeness agreement. After a year in ROH the wrestler signs with WWE. He spends a year there and excels and get extremely over so they bring him up to the main roster where he becomes a household name and star. Mattel obviously wants exclusive rights to cash in on his popularity. However, due to the 5 year likeness agreement signed with ROH and their partners another company can now legally produce merchandise for this wrestler as well, cashing in on his new fame potentially cutting into Mattel and WWE's profits.

Without the likeness agreement, not really a big deal as companies have been making "best of" DVD's for a while but that is older already available material. With the likeness agreement they can now product NEW merchandise which becomes the issue.

Using a real world example. Say AJ Styles signs a 5 year likeness agreement right now with ROH and their partners. WWE signs him to a contract in January 2016 and he becomes WWE champion in November of 2016 still using the name AJ Styles. With the agreement ROH could legally product a T-shirt in November 2016 that says "AJ Styles: World Champion" which is obviously an issue for WWE, Mattel and WWE business partners.

This isn't a case of "big bad" WWE being greedy or trying to squash out a minor competitor, this is them protecting a business interest and simply warning wrestlers how that potential likeness deal can hurt them. They aren't preventing anyone from signing with ROH, just letting them know that the likeness deal associated with ROH could be potentially harmful in the future.

As I've said before I like ROH and consider it one of the top 3 promotions in the world with WWE and NJPW. I also hope they grow and eventually become a viable #2 promotion in the US as I feel their shows are simply incredible at times. But I can understand WWE's reaction on this and I find it perfectly acceptable as WWE has to protect their business interest first.

Honestly I wish WWE would sign a deal with ROH where they would work together and put ROH matches on Superstar DVD's which I think could be beneficial to both through I know that is a pipe dream.

[Red Impact]

Jun 14, 2015 8:58:46 GMT -5 Johnny Flamingo said:

WWE isn't trying to squash ROH. They are simply trying to prevent ROH from coming out with a NEW toy/T-shirt or piece of merchandise once a wrestler has signed with WWE.

The idea is to not sign talent from ROH or TNA now for the main roster and to get the word out to younger talents that if they have WWE aspirations, they shouldn't sign with TNA or ROH

I don't really get that all. According to the article it's not just "Don't sign the licensing agreement." It's "We will not be interested in you if you sign with these companies." Considering WWE's stature in the wrestling world, the number of young wrestlers who have no WWE aspirations is likely very small, so yeah, it's a business tactic, trying to ensure that RoH and TNA can't get young new talent that those types of companies need to exist just in case they might, at some point, be interested in WWE. AFterall, if it was just about merchandising, then they'd be a lot more proactive against the DVD releases and such like you said. This just reeks of them throwing their corporate weight around to try to choke supply of talent to the only other promotions with tv deals.

And I'm still extremely dubious over how much of a threat an RoH action figure line is to WWE's deal with Mattel. TNA, I can get. They have decent distribution, but I doubt RoH is anything close to that.

[Johnny Flamingo]

Jun 14, 2015 9:16:32 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

Jun 14, 2015 8:58:46 GMT -5 Johnny Flamingo said:

WWE isn't trying to squash ROH. They are simply trying to prevent ROH from coming out with a NEW toy/T-shirt or piece of merchandise once a wrestler has signed with WWE.

The idea is to not sign talent from ROH or TNA now for the main roster and to get the word out to younger talents that if they have WWE aspirations, they shouldn't sign with TNA or ROH

I don't really get that all. According to the article it's not just "Don't sign the licensing agreement." It's "We will not be interested in you if you sign with these companies." Considering WWE's stature in the wrestling world, the number of young wrestlers who have no WWE aspirations is likely very small, so yeah, it's a business tactic, trying to ensure that RoH and TNA can't get young new talent that those types of companies need to exist just in case they might, at some point, be interested in WWE. AFterall, if it was just about merchandising, then they'd be a lot more proactive against the DVD releases and such like you said. This just reeks of them throwing their corporate weight around to try to choke supply of talent to the only other promotions with tv deals.

And I'm still extremely dubious over how much of a threat an RoH action figure line is to WWE's deal with Mattel. TNA, I can get. They have decent distribution, but I doubt RoH is anything close to that.

Up until now WWE has never seemingly had a problem with ROH and has had references to them in the past. This is the first time I can think of where WWE, Mattel and a potential likeness deal has been linked with ROH which leads me to believe that something in regards to that deal has WWE concerned from a business perspective.

WWE has worked with smaller promotions in the past (ECW, UPW, SMW) and have never seemed concerned with choking out any of these smaller promotions so I see no reason other than the business aspect on why they would advise wrestlers not to sign with ROH or TNA.

It could be also something with Destination America that we aren't seeing since DA is linking ROH and TNA right now.

If I thought that this was simply WWE trying to choke out the competition I would be totally against it as I believe more options create better wrestlers and the wrestling industry thrives with more successful alternative are available. I also don't believe it is right when larger companies use their weight to kill off smaller companies. I'm just not seeing that in this instance.