MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Sept 14, 2015 3:02:35 GMT -5
Lew Wolff (Oakland A's owner). Ever since he bought the team, he's done nothing but badmouth Oakland, and made it abundantly clear that he wants the team somewhere else. When it became clear he couldn't move them to San Jose, he finally conceded that he needs a new stadium in Oakland. But he won't share a site with the Raiders (and to be fair, the Raiders are equally stubborn on this), so he's forcing the city to make a choice as to which team to keep. But rather than present his plans and actively engage the city, his strategy seems to be "wait for the Raiders to fail". If this doesn't work and the Raiders don't move to LA, there's no telling what could happen with where the A's will end up.
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Post by SEND FOR THE MAN!!! on Sept 14, 2015 5:55:00 GMT -5
Dan Snyder.
To add to his blunders, was the decision to have the training camp in the industrial section of Richmond. Literally right across the street from the DMV.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Sept 14, 2015 9:12:17 GMT -5
Jeffrey Loria can go play in traffic.
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 14, 2015 12:49:06 GMT -5
Lew Wolff (Oakland A's owner). Ever since he bought the team, he's done nothing but badmouth Oakland, and made it abundantly clear that he wants the team somewhere else. When it became clear he couldn't move them to San Jose, he finally conceded that he needs a new stadium in Oakland. But he won't share a site with the Raiders (and to be fair, the Raiders are equally stubborn on this), so he's forcing the city to make a choice as to which team to keep. But rather than present his plans and actively engage the city, his strategy seems to be "wait for the Raiders to fail". If this doesn't work and the Raiders don't move to LA, there's no telling what could happen with where the A's will end up. The refusal by teams to have multi-purpose stadiums infuriates me. I get it: Veterans Stadium, Shea Stadium, Riverfront Stadium, Candlestick Park, the Astrodome, etc., fine, they were almost universally ugly. But they were municipal stadiums, meaning they generated some money for the local community, and they were multi-purpose, which meant they could be open more dates of the year (81 for baseball, 10 for football including preseason, concerts, more for playoffs, etc.). This push for single sport outdoor venues, which not surprisingly coincide with a push by teams to demand public funding (and private profits) or risk the team bailing on a city, is one of the more grotesque financial aspects of modern sports, especially given all the reports lately on how much money American cities have wasted on football stadiums, the least productive venues of all. Makes me grateful that Metlife Stadium is 100% privately financed, at least, even if it did replace the municipal-based Giants Stadium.
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Post by Cyno on Sept 14, 2015 13:38:30 GMT -5
I really hate it when owners put the screws on cities to fund their new arenas or they'll bail. It's rare when these owners aren't incredibly rich (especially in the NFL) and paying for the stadium themselves won't even make a dent in their massive fortunes. And contrary to common belief, these stadiums and arenas rarely bring any actual revenue into the cities and towns that surround them. It mostly goes into the owners' pockets.
Public stadium funding is an incredibly poor investment when these asshole owners can pay for it themselves and it pays itself back for them in spades.
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 14, 2015 17:20:58 GMT -5
In an obscene way, I half-get the case the owners make: "I didn't get rich by being stupid, I'm not in this to turn a profit, contracts cost a lot, so I need x, y, and z in order to break even with this team", hence why the Royals' and Twins' ownership groups, despite being manned by freaking Wal Mart and Target CEOs, can still cry poverty.
But there was a time 20 years ago when the mayor's of America's major cities had to get together to say "none of this bullshit, thank you"...a pipe dream, I realize, but the bilking that's done in cities across America in exchange for nearly no economic stimulus, job creation, or even city revenue, all because mayors/councils fear being voted out if the team leaves town, is an enormous failing of our system.
And again, because it cannot be stated enough, football stadiums are the worst. A couple of my uncles do some side-work as security at MetLife Stadium in the Meadowlands, which, again, is one of the better ones given that it's 100% privately funded and gets twice the football games due to having two teams...and yet the current MetLife Stadium event calendar has literally nothing scheduled between January 3 (Eagles at Giants, end of the regular season) and freaking April 30, when a supercross bike race show comes in. So you've got 20 NFL games (playoffs possibly added), a handful of NCAA games, some international soccer friendlies, concerts for acts big enough to draw over 70,000 people to the middle of the East Rutherford swamps...you're not exactly drowning in work, here, you're lucky if you're talking about 50 dates where the place is open and filled. And this is in the biggest media market in the country! Go to another city, where there's half the NFL games, less concert acts, etc., and it's even worse.
I did some (insanely basic, preliminary, and not at all expert-level) research for grad school on the potential stimulative effects of arenas on urban areas, how a new venue in the heart of a city can draw crowds for closer to 200+ dates a year and reshape a downtown core to draw tourist dollars; in those cases, there have been some success stories (Verizon Center in DC being chief among them), but even they are few and far between thanks to the sweetheart tax deals involved and the public money many owners still demand.
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 13,954
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Sept 15, 2015 2:59:49 GMT -5
Today, though, one-sport stadiums are a necessity, due to the damage that the fields endure. Football teams tear up the outfield with their cleats, and the infield is outright dangerous for a team to run on, slippery as it is. The Raiders and A's are (un)fortunately (for Oakland) the last stadium that does this, and it's ridiculous how bad the field is for both sports. As far as aesthetics, there's the average 70's multi-use stadium, and then there's Mount Davis, which is NOT a solution to anything.
Between that and the stadium literally falling apart (sewage has seeped into the clubhouse on more than one occasion), new facilities are absolutely needed. And now, Mark Davis and Lew Wolff are at odds over the parking situation as to why they can't do two facilities. Kansas City did it; surely they can figure something out.
And one more thing about Wolff: his intentions of leaving Oakland came down to this: it's a poor city, and he's afraid fans will "only" buy the regular seats, and not the luxury boxes. At least he's conceding defeat on San Jose, and hasn't talked about moving anywhere else (for now). And it sounds like he'll at least try to privately finance a new stadium, as opposed to the Raiders begging for public funds. He just needs to get off his duff and put it in motion, or he needs to sell the team.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Sept 15, 2015 5:09:48 GMT -5
I really hate it when owners put the screws on cities to fund their new arenas or they'll bail. It's rare when these owners aren't incredibly rich (especially in the NFL) and paying for the stadium themselves won't even make a dent in their massive fortunes. And contrary to common belief, these stadiums and arenas rarely bring any actual revenue into the cities and towns that surround them. It mostly goes into the owners' pockets. Public stadium funding is an incredibly poor investment when these asshole owners can pay for it themselves and it pays itself back for them in spades. *it's bleeped, but language*
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Sept 15, 2015 15:15:55 GMT -5
Lew Wolff (Oakland A's owner). Ever since he bought the team, he's done nothing but badmouth Oakland, and made it abundantly clear that he wants the team somewhere else. When it became clear he couldn't move them to San Jose, he finally conceded that he needs a new stadium in Oakland. But he won't share a site with the Raiders (and to be fair, the Raiders are equally stubborn on this), so he's forcing the city to make a choice as to which team to keep. But rather than present his plans and actively engage the city, his strategy seems to be "wait for the Raiders to fail". If this doesn't work and the Raiders don't move to LA, there's no telling what could happen with where the A's will end up. The refusal by teams to have multi-purpose stadiums infuriates me. I get it: Veterans Stadium, Shea Stadium, Riverfront Stadium, Candlestick Park, the Astrodome, etc., fine, they were almost universally ugly. But they were municipal stadiums, meaning they generated some money for the local community, and they were multi-purpose, which meant they could be open more dates of the year (81 for baseball, 10 for football including preseason, concerts, more for playoffs, etc.). This push for single sport outdoor venues, which not surprisingly coincide with a push by teams to demand public funding (and private profits) or risk the team bailing on a city, is one of the more grotesque financial aspects of modern sports, especially given all the reports lately on how much money American cities have wasted on football stadiums, the least productive venues of all. Makes me grateful that Metlife Stadium is 100% privately financed, at least, even if it did replace the municipal-based Giants Stadium. Multi-purpose stadiums can be problematic even if you solve the field conditions issue. The Colts and the Orioles were both anxious to leave Baltimore because Memorial Stadium lacked enough daily use facilities for either team to be successful because they had to share. The only reason the Orioles did not leave is that the Colts leaving meant they did not have to share for a short stretch and the city finally was serious about keeping them after having another team leave town and started negotiations for the new stadium they now use.
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 15, 2015 16:18:58 GMT -5
The refusal by teams to have multi-purpose stadiums infuriates me. I get it: Veterans Stadium, Shea Stadium, Riverfront Stadium, Candlestick Park, the Astrodome, etc., fine, they were almost universally ugly. But they were municipal stadiums, meaning they generated some money for the local community, and they were multi-purpose, which meant they could be open more dates of the year (81 for baseball, 10 for football including preseason, concerts, more for playoffs, etc.). This push for single sport outdoor venues, which not surprisingly coincide with a push by teams to demand public funding (and private profits) or risk the team bailing on a city, is one of the more grotesque financial aspects of modern sports, especially given all the reports lately on how much money American cities have wasted on football stadiums, the least productive venues of all. Makes me grateful that Metlife Stadium is 100% privately financed, at least, even if it did replace the municipal-based Giants Stadium. Multi-purpose stadiums can be problematic even if you solve the field conditions issue. The Colts and the Orioles were both anxious to leave Baltimore because Memorial Stadium lacked enough daily use facilities for either team to be successful because they had to share. The only reason the Orioles did not leave is that the Colts leaving meant they did not have to share for a short stretch and the city finally was serious about keeping them after having another team leave town and started negotiations for the new stadium they now use. The field condition issue is justifiable (obviously turf is awful for baseball players' health), but extra facilities can be handled without having to hold cities hostage for multi-billion dollar palaces that take up useful space and add nothing to municipal coffers. Speaking for myself, it doesn't excuse the clubs.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Sept 15, 2015 16:33:15 GMT -5
Multi-purpose stadiums can be problematic even if you solve the field conditions issue. The Colts and the Orioles were both anxious to leave Baltimore because Memorial Stadium lacked enough daily use facilities for either team to be successful because they had to share. The only reason the Orioles did not leave is that the Colts leaving meant they did not have to share for a short stretch and the city finally was serious about keeping them after having another team leave town and started negotiations for the new stadium they now use. The field condition issue is justifiable (obviously turf is awful for baseball players' health), but extra facilities can be handled without having to hold cities hostage for multi-billion dollar palaces that take up useful space and add nothing to municipal coffers. Speaking for myself, it doesn't excuse the clubs. Yes, it can be (Baltimore just wasn't interested in it until a team actually did show they were not bluffing about leaving). Toronto seems to do it fine (the SkyDome is home to teams from the MLB, CFL, and hosted the Raptors and Bills) and the stadium is used for conventions and international sporting events. It is a stadium that might have actually paid for itself. I just wish every owner followed the example of Bob Kraft (though it should be noted he only paid for it himself after a deal for public funding fell through).
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Post by Hugh Mungus on Sept 16, 2015 10:39:15 GMT -5
Lew Wolff (Oakland A's owner). Ever since he bought the team, he's done nothing but badmouth Oakland, and made it abundantly clear that he wants the team somewhere else. When it became clear he couldn't move them to San Jose, he finally conceded that he needs a new stadium in Oakland. But he won't share a site with the Raiders (and to be fair, the Raiders are equally stubborn on this), so he's forcing the city to make a choice as to which team to keep. But rather than present his plans and actively engage the city, his strategy seems to be "wait for the Raiders to fail". If this doesn't work and the Raiders don't move to LA, there's no telling what could happen with where the A's will end up. The refusal by teams to have multi-purpose stadiums infuriates me. I get it: Veterans Stadium, Shea Stadium, Riverfront Stadium, Candlestick Park, the Astrodome, etc., fine, they were almost universally ugly. But they were municipal stadiums, meaning they generated some money for the local community, and they were multi-purpose, which meant they could be open more dates of the year (81 for baseball, 10 for football including preseason, concerts, more for playoffs, etc.). This push for single sport outdoor venues, which not surprisingly coincide with a push by teams to demand public funding (and private profits) or risk the team bailing on a city, is one of the more grotesque financial aspects of modern sports, especially given all the reports lately on how much money American cities have wasted on football stadiums, the least productive venues of all. Makes me grateful that Metlife Stadium is 100% privately financed, at least, even if it did replace the municipal-based Giants Stadium. Wasn't Gillette Stadium privately financed as well? As for MetLife Stadium, the Giants and Jets each financed 50%.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,351
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Sept 16, 2015 13:34:49 GMT -5
The refusal by teams to have multi-purpose stadiums infuriates me. I get it: Veterans Stadium, Shea Stadium, Riverfront Stadium, Candlestick Park, the Astrodome, etc., fine, they were almost universally ugly. But they were municipal stadiums, meaning they generated some money for the local community, and they were multi-purpose, which meant they could be open more dates of the year (81 for baseball, 10 for football including preseason, concerts, more for playoffs, etc.). This push for single sport outdoor venues, which not surprisingly coincide with a push by teams to demand public funding (and private profits) or risk the team bailing on a city, is one of the more grotesque financial aspects of modern sports, especially given all the reports lately on how much money American cities have wasted on football stadiums, the least productive venues of all. Makes me grateful that Metlife Stadium is 100% privately financed, at least, even if it did replace the municipal-based Giants Stadium. Wasn't Gillette Stadium privately financed as well? As for MetLife Stadium, the Giants and Jets each financed 50%. Gillette Stadium was, though it wasn't supposed to be originally. Negotiations to get public funding fell through and Kraft elected to bite the bullet rather than try to keep using an existing stadium that was woefully insufficient for the team's needs.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 6:41:30 GMT -5
Frickin' "Dollar Bill" Wirtz was the reason we'd joke that there were only 12,000 hockey fans in Chicago. If you bought a ticket to the game, that was the ONLY way you'd see it. No TV games. I watched more Islanders games when we had WOR, so that was my team in the '80s.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Sept 18, 2015 21:58:57 GMT -5
Wasn't Gillette Stadium privately financed as well? As for MetLife Stadium, the Giants and Jets each financed 50%. Gillette Stadium was, though it wasn't supposed to be originally. Negotiations to get public funding fell through and Kraft elected to bite the bullet rather than try to keep using an existing stadium that was woefully insufficient for the team's needs. Its shocking now thinking the Patriots are the second most valuable franchise in football how far away from that they were prior to Krafts arrival. They were months away from being the Saint Louis Patriots. The prison yard they mercifully tore down for Gillette was an embarrassment. In the late 80s it was like going to a meth den.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,351
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Sept 18, 2015 22:50:45 GMT -5
Gillette Stadium was, though it wasn't supposed to be originally. Negotiations to get public funding fell through and Kraft elected to bite the bullet rather than try to keep using an existing stadium that was woefully insufficient for the team's needs. Its shocking now thinking the Patriots are the second most valuable franchise in football how far away from that they were prior to Krafts arrival. They were months away from being the Saint Louis Patriots. The prison yard they mercifully tore down for Gillette was an embarrassment. In the late 80s it was like going to a meth den. Was it a yard for the prison that Aaron Hernandez now calls home?
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Post by Hurbster on Sept 19, 2015 18:49:11 GMT -5
Pompey went through a series of awful, terrible owners. Including the same one twice as I recall. And a bloke who got the club because of the club defaulting on debts.
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Post by RI Richmark on Sept 20, 2015 21:57:50 GMT -5
Gillette Stadium was, though it wasn't supposed to be originally. Negotiations to get public funding fell through and Kraft elected to bite the bullet rather than try to keep using an existing stadium that was woefully insufficient for the team's needs. Its shocking now thinking the Patriots are the second most valuable franchise in football how far away from that they were prior to Krafts arrival. They were months away from being the Saint Louis Patriots. The prison yard they mercifully tore down for Gillette was an embarrassment. In the late 80s it was like going to a meth den. These St. Louis Stallions hats are currently in The Patriots Hall of Fame. They serve as a reminder of just how close we were to losing the Patriots. Thank God for Bob Kraft.
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