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Post by Ash Kingston on Jul 24, 2017 0:28:34 GMT -5
"I'm Spock's adopted sister!", eh? And her name's Michael? I'm just gonna prepare the bunker for when the "SHE'S A MARY SUE!" "NO SHE'S NOT!" debates (shit-flinging) begin.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2017 6:15:24 GMT -5
"I'm Spock's adopted sister!", eh? And her name's Michael? I'm just gonna prepare the bunker for when the "SHE'S A MARY SUE!" "NO SHE'S NOT!" debates (shit-flinging) begin. Gotta say that being Spock's hereto unmentioned sister out of nowhere, with a backstory that's basically Worf's, is something that'd get someone called a Mary Sue in a fanfic and generally rightfully so, but I feel like by and large the argument is really going to boil down to, "BOOO, she's a female character who's allowed to be competent and a main character! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Either way the backstory thing doesn't instantly damn the character for me, but it is one of many things about this show I'm finding sketchy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2017 7:39:35 GMT -5
"I'm Spock's adopted sister!", eh? And her name's Michael? I'm just gonna prepare the bunker for when the "SHE'S A MARY SUE!" "NO SHE'S NOT!" debates (shit-flinging) begin. Gotta say that being Spock's hereto unmentioned sister out of nowhere, with a backstory that's basically Worf's, is something that'd get someone called a Mary Sue in a fanfic and generally rightfully so, but I feel like by and large the argument is really going to boil down to, "BOOO, she's a female character who's allowed to be competent and a main character! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Without getting too political: It's more likely that this will we be used as deflection towards those who have legitimate problems with either the writing or characterizations so as to avoid dealing with any actual flaws within their own work. Diversity has been woven into Star Trek's DNA and framework since inception and the popularity and success of DS9 and VOY (despite Voyager's in-consistent quality at times) are the reflection of that. My concern from the trailer's so far (besides what people have already mentioned) is that Star Trek is about the adventures of the crew and how the crew interact with each other and the issues they face, but this trailer focuses way too much on just the character of Michael. It's like 95% her 5% rest of the show. I really hope it's the way it's edited but so far this issue coupled with everything else that was brought up is making me approach this with caution.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Jul 24, 2017 9:49:06 GMT -5
Gotta say that being Spock's hereto unmentioned sister out of nowhere, with a backstory that's basically Worf's, is something that'd get someone called a Mary Sue in a fanfic and generally rightfully so, but I feel like by and large the argument is really going to boil down to, "BOOO, she's a female character who's allowed to be competent and a main character! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Without getting too political: It's more likely that this will we be used as deflection towards those who have legitimate problems with either the writing or characterizations so as to avoid dealing with any actual flaws within their own work. Diversity has been woven into Star Trek's DNA and framework since inception and the popularity and success of DS9 and VOY (despite Voyager's in-consistent quality at times) are the reflection of that. My concern from the trailer's so far (besides what people have already mentioned) is that Star Trek is about the adventures of the crew and how the crew interact with each other and the issues they face, but this trailer focuses way too much on just the character of Michael. It's like 95% her 5% rest of the show. I really hope it's the way it's edited but so far this issue coupled with everything else that was brought up is making me approach this with caution. I skimmed an interview about the show, and the person being interviewed mentioned that previous shows have been focused on the captain as the main character, and that Discovery will focus on the first officer as the main character. And with the exception of TOS, which is possibly more due to Shatner's backstage drama, that's never been true. It has been as you put it, it's about the crew dynamic, and how they interact with each other. If this series focuses on just one character to the detriment of everyone else, then that goes against the established dynamic of Star Trek, and has little to do with the character simply being female. And Star Trek has had some amazing female characters, with a personal favorite, Kira Nerys, coming to mind.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jul 24, 2017 11:05:41 GMT -5
Mostly DS9 had some terrific female characters. Uhura on the original show was barely there, Dr. Crusher was okay, Deanna was either overpowered or useless, and let's not even get started with Janeway or Torres on Voyager. But yeah DS9 had Kira (a tremendous, multi layered character), Jadzia Dax, even Kassidy Yates was a pretty decent recurring character that managed to be more than just "Sisko's love interest." On the heel side of things you had Kai Winn and the Female Changeling leader.
Basically DS9 was awesome.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Jul 24, 2017 11:13:28 GMT -5
Mostly DS9 had some terrific female characters. Uhura on the original show was barely there, Dr. Crusher was okay, Deanna was either overpowered or useless, and let's not even get started with Janeway or Torres on Voyager. But yeah DS9 had Kira (a tremendous, multi layered character), Jadzia Dax, even Kassidy Yates was a pretty decent recurring character that managed to be more than just "Sisko's love interest." On the heel side of things you had Kai Winn and the Female Changeling leader. Basically DS9 was awesome. Yeah, Uhura was just there, but that in itself was an incredible accomplishment considering the time. Didn't she say that she was approached by MLK, encouraging her to stay on the show?
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Jul 24, 2017 11:13:36 GMT -5
Mostly DS9 had some terrific female characters. Uhura on the original show was barely there, Dr. Crusher was okay, Deanna was either overpowered or useless, and let's not even get started with Janeway or Torres on Voyager. But yeah DS9 had Kira (a tremendous, multi layered character), Jadzia Dax, even Kassidy Yates was a pretty decent recurring character that managed to be more than just "Sisko's love interest." On the heel side of things you had Kai Winn and the Female Changeling leader. Basically DS9 was awesome. As my cousin puts it, DS9 was awesome even though they pretty much boldly sat where nobody had sat before.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 24, 2017 11:55:28 GMT -5
Uhura, in spite of her relatively limited role (which to be fair, applied to everyone that wasn't Kirk, Spock, or McCoy), was still a black woman of some prominence in a mainstream 1960's TV show. It was a really big deal at the time, especially when she and Kirk kissed.
Though rewatching all the series lately (thank you syndication), I do have to say that while a lot of the later series do have more of an ensemble cast, the Captain is still the framing characters versus being true ensembles. You knew Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, and Archer are considered the main characters even when individual episodes don't focus on them. As long as Michael is used similarly in that capacity, it's fine. I would have a problem if the show focused almost entirely on Michael while treating the rest of the crew like window dressing or just existing for her sake. There are some Trek veterans on here so I don't think they'd let that happen, but who knows.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jul 24, 2017 14:22:17 GMT -5
My wife and I watched all of the Trek series on Netflix over the past year. I kept waiting for the notorious Kirk/Uhura episode and after seeing the context it was in (namely those weirdo ancient Greek obsessed people made them enact plays for their amusement and such) the whole thing was overblown. There was no actual Kirk/Uhura romance or actual kiss, it was just them being coerced.
Oddly enough I actually felt the least entertaining of the shows might actually be TNG. Quality wise I thought the worst was Voyager, which from day 1 was just bad anyway and has a stupid premise that couldn't sustain 7 seasons. But I will say Voyager wasn't boring or dull. It was always a fast paced, action packed train wreck. But man TNG is full of talky, boring episodes. Seasons 1 and 2 were mostly bad anyway, with 1 being full of way too much Wesley Crusher saving the day and Tasha Yar. Season 2 at least had the Borg debut episode and the Data "Measure of a Man" episode. And really, the last season was pretty dire. Basically TNG was good from about Seasons 3-6.
I actually kinda liked Enterprise. The first two seasons were a bit lethargic, just kinda drifting through space exploring but the last two seasons were quite good.
But yeah, DS9. Oh man that show. The first season was okay and took some time to get its legs, but once it got rolling it was brilliant. Best and deepest cast of characters, best plots, best villains. I was actually quite surprised as to how much I enjoyed the show.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 24, 2017 14:35:57 GMT -5
The Kirk/Uhura kiss was a big deal because it happened, not because of how it happened within the episode's storyline. It was the first ever interracial kiss in television history and requires the context of American society in the 1960's, especially in the South, to understand how big a deal and controversial it was back then.
TNG had a lot of filler and outright bad episodes, especially in the first couple of seasons. But then the highs were amazing, like Measure of a Man, Best of Both Worlds, The Inner Light, Redemption, Darmok, Yesterday's Enterprise, Tapestry, etc.
Though out of all of the series, I think DS9 was the most consistent in quality. I also think it had the best villains in the Dominion (which, more than any other villainous government really felt like the anti-Federation since it was a multispecies organization like the Federation versus being the empire of a singular race like the Romulans and Klingons) and especially Dukat. Even the first season, typically a lousy one among the post-TOS series, had some absolute standout episodes like Captive Pursuit and Duet.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Jul 24, 2017 14:49:09 GMT -5
My wife and I watched all of the Trek series on Netflix over the past year. I kept waiting for the notorious Kirk/Uhura episode and after seeing the context it was in (namely those weirdo ancient Greek obsessed people made them enact plays for their amusement and such) the whole thing was overblown. There was no actual Kirk/Uhura romance or actual kiss, it was just them being coerced. Once again, you have to look at that kiss, and it was an actual kiss, in the context of the era it occurred. It was incredibly controversial, and was only aired that way because Shatner sabotaged the one alternate take of them not kissing.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jul 24, 2017 15:18:30 GMT -5
Mostly DS9 had some terrific female characters. Uhura on the original show was barely there, Dr. Crusher was okay, Deanna was either overpowered or useless, and let's not even get started with Janeway or Torres on Voyager. But yeah DS9 had Kira (a tremendous, multi layered character), Jadzia Dax, even Kassidy Yates was a pretty decent recurring character that managed to be more than just "Sisko's love interest." On the heel side of things you had Kai Winn and the Female Changeling leader. Basically DS9 was awesome. It's the best Trek show.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jul 24, 2017 17:40:59 GMT -5
Yeah I know about how big of a deal the Kirk/Uhura thing was but what I find odd is how older viewers actually misremember it as something important plot wise. Whenever I'd watch a Trek movie with my dad he would sometimes refer to Uhura as "the captain's main woman" and I had no idea what he was talking about since nothing remotely romantic happened between those two in any of the films. It was really the twisted villains of that one episode that forced them to kiss, made Kirk and Spock dance around like fools (and allowed for some awesome Shatner overacting, haha).
Anyway, my own personal rankings of the shows would go like this:
1. Deep Space Nine. Best Trek of them all, just an epic series and one that at various points left me thrilled, laughing out loud, near tears, or thinking about what happened. 2. The Original Series. There are some things here that wouldn't pass muster today (namely characters that show up for 1 episode and never come back), but overall the cast is so iconic and knows their roles. There are some really great episodes, especially the first two seasons. 3. Enterprise. It's hard to rate this one since it only lasted 4 seasons but the last two seasons are some of the better Trek out there. Even the first two seasons were a nice breather from the constant "OMG we're going to die!" aspect of Voyager. Capt. Archer is probably the nicest captain on a Trek show. That theme song though.... 4. Next Generation. As I noted, I find the series overrated. There are great episodes to be sure and those seem to be what people remember, but there are probably 3 seasons worth of crap on the show. I think I liked it better later on when Worf got more screen time, since he's one of the few who had a character arc. 5. Voyager. Oh lord. Janeway is the worst captain on any Trek show, some characters are just given up on over time (including Chackotay, who is supposed to be the main male lead!), some that are just unlikable dicks for the whole series (Tuvok, B'Elanna), and some of the worst recurring villains ever (The Kazon??). It did get better for a while in Season 4 when Seven of Nine was introduced, but maybe 1/2 of a good season out of 7 is not a good average. I recall watching the pilot and at the end when Janeway basically forgave the various Maquis people, made Chackotay the 2nd in command, put Tom Paris at the wheel, etc. I just went insane over how stupid it was. Tom Paris gaining her trust and becoming a valued officer is something that could have been his entire arc over the series. Chackotay and B'Elanna going from mistrusted Maquis rebels to Starfleet officers should have been something that lasted the whole series, but they just went through this in one freakin episode. I recall one episode where they had a holodeck program of Chackotay and Co. taking over the ship and ousting Janeway, which was dismissed as nonsense. I thought "Hey, sounds like a good idea. This woman is incompetent."
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jul 24, 2017 18:03:46 GMT -5
Voyager was such a missed opportunity, simply due to the fact that it had the strongest premise - two crews with radically different backgrounds, values and goals stranded 70 years worth of travel from home and forced to work together.
I still have fond memories of it though, and rewatch old eps more than any other Trek show. The Doctor is one of Star Trek's best characters, period.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2017 18:11:04 GMT -5
Without getting too political: It's more likely that this will we be used as deflection towards those who have legitimate problems with either the writing or characterizations so as to avoid dealing with any actual flaws within their own work. Diversity has been woven into Star Trek's DNA and framework since inception and the popularity and success of DS9 and VOY (despite Voyager's in-consistent quality at times) are the reflection of that. My concern from the trailer's so far (besides what people have already mentioned) is that Star Trek is about the adventures of the crew and how the crew interact with each other and the issues they face, but this trailer focuses way too much on just the character of Michael. It's like 95% her 5% rest of the show. I really hope it's the way it's edited but so far this issue coupled with everything else that was brought up is making me approach this with caution. I skimmed an interview about the show, and the person being interviewed mentioned that previous shows have been focused on the captain as the main character, and that Discovery will focus on the first officer as the main character. And with the exception of TOS, which is possibly more due to Shatner's backstage drama, that's never been true. It has been as you put it, it's about the crew dynamic, and how they interact with each other. If this series focuses on just one character to the detriment of everyone else, then that goes against the established dynamic of Star Trek, and has little to do with the character simply being female. And Star Trek has had some amazing female characters, with a personal favorite, Kira Nerys, coming to mind. That's strange that they mention the one character focus as "staple" of the show. I think it's fair to say that the Captain in most shows was positioned as lead in a sense but the crew as a whole was always consistently involved, and individually speaking, received character depth. I also echo the sentiment about the strong and well written female characters over the years (especially on DS9 as we all shout in unison.). I think though with regards to TOS a little leniency is required towards the writing because (as others have pointed out) of the time period. The things they did on the show were rebellious and counter-culture in comparison to the public paradigm, for example just having a mixed race cast sitting together working as one was enough to stir up some shiznat. To expand on a previous comment: Yes Nichelle Nichols actually considered leaving the show at one point as she felt her character didn't really do much (action/dialogue), however on one occasion she had met the late Dr. King and he expressed that he was a huge fan of the show. When she told him she was thinking about leaving he pleaded with her not to because her presence on the show, however small she thought it to be, was an inspiration and now a symbol to the black community of the things that can now be achieved. She had not thought about that before and she decided afterwards to stay on the show to continue to inspire others. On Captain Janeway: I always enjoyed Kate Mulgrew's performance and thought she did splendid with what he she was given. I have heard it said that the writing for her character was handled differently than the previous captains. Namely they wrote her has a woman first and THEN as a Captain rather than just Captain Janeway. I have also heard the suggestion that she would have been a better science officer than a Captain ( I.E. she was Science officer and was left the highest ranking bridge officer during the events of "Caretaker" and was field promoted to Captain. The series was would then have her deal with the responsibilities of Captain from that point on. (I'm paraphrasing and I don't remember the details so if it sounds sketchy I'm probably leaving something out accidentally). Speaking of Voyager, I believe one of the biggest mistakes of that show was not that they didn't have it as a serial. Especially with the plot line of a ship surviving in the delta quadrant trying to get back home. That plot practically BEGGED for that format. Hitting the reset button at the end of every episode took any drama they built up out of it. The story arc "Year Of Hell" was a great example of what could have been for the whole series.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 25, 2017 2:09:15 GMT -5
Another thing with TOS is that there was network pressure to make it less radical. The original pilot had a female first officer (who was just known as Number One at the time and played by Majel Barrett, who was Roddenberry's mistress at the time. Scandalous!) who also had Spock's logical personality, while Spock at the time had emotions. NBC reportedly rejected the pilot because Spock looked "too satanic" and they thought audiences wouldn't buy the idea of a female XO.
Granted, Robert Justman (one of the TOS producers) disputes that they rejected The Cage because of the female first officer but more because they didn't like Majel Barrett in that sort of leading role and Roddenberry made up the story in order to spare his lover's feelings.
But yeah, I agree with everyone in how DS9 portrayed a wide diversity of women with different motivations, personalities, and character development, especially Kira. Even the minor characters like Leeta had their moments. They did such an amazing job with character development on that show and I think it was more a trailblazer than even TNG was in regards to modern day society.
And one of the constant themes of character relationships was family and they did such a great job with it. The father-son relationships with Ben and Jake and then Joseph and Ben. The Visitor in particular did such a great job with that relationship and it legit made me cry by the end because of the performances between Brooks and the various actors that played Jake. And then you have the Cardassian concept of family, which is such a core part of their society. Even a being of pure evil like Gul Dukat became humanized and multidimensional when it came to the love for his half-Bajoran lovechild, Ziyal, especially when it came to the sacrifices to rest of his family and his career to even acknowledge her as his.
Going back to Kira, that concept of family resulted in one of the strangest relationships in not just that show but the entire saga. When she was kidnapped by the Obsidian Order and altered to look like the daughter of a Cardassian legate named Tekeny Ghemor who was sympathetic to the dissident movement. In spite of those circumstances, the two bonded and Tekeny continued to think of Kira as his daughter even when the deception was revealed. Sadly, he died from an incurable disease.
But the amazing thing with that relationship is that, for all the hatred Kira harbored for the Cardassians as a whole, he really did become a second father figure to her. She even buried him on Bajor next to the gravesite of her real father.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jul 25, 2017 10:49:35 GMT -5
Oh yeah, preach it. I think that whole Kira storyline of being altered to look like the Cardassian's daughter was a riff on the Deanna Troi episode of TNG where she was altered to look like a Romulan and had to play spy (I believe this introduced the Tal Shiar?). The difference is that the Deanna thing was a one off with no real relevance long term, whereas the Kira episode actually had a long term character change involved where Kira started seeing other sides of Cardassians and viewerd Ghemor as a father figure. On that note I think the Dax "Rejoined" episode is a play on TNG episode where Dr. Crusher is in love with the Trill dude, who dies and the symbiote goes through Riker for a while, until finally landing on...a Trill woman. Crusher dismisses the idea of being a lesbian and the episode ended, whereas the DS9 episode was more like "Well..wait a minute. Symbiote love isn't so clear cut." Of course that episode was between two symbiote hosts that are now female, whereas TNG episode was a human woman and a host. You really do need to see all of TNG to fully get DS9, because certain episodes call back to situations there.
As far as Janeway goes, the writing for the character is just terrible. I've heard jokes that she seemed schizo since she has wild swings. Is she someone committed to her crew? Does she believe in a more "get the job done" mentality? Does she adhere to the Prime Directive? Does she prefer to cut corners? At any moment I was never sure, especially in episodes where Seven of Nine logically goes after her gaps in leadership (and frankly exposes the plot holes and logic gaps in the series). I recall the end of the episode where B'Elanna is on trial on that planet, and after she is let off Seven goes to Janeway's office and basically says something that I had felt since like the first 3 episodes: The whole philosophy of stopping to explore everything in the Delta quadrant is stupid and at odds with the stated mission of getting back home.
That brings me to another massive problem I had with Voyager. The episodes are just all THE SAME. It seriously seemed to fall into a couple of types: The crew investigates a nebula or something else and the ship is put in peril and they almost die, the ship encounters some villains in space that try to take over the ship and they almost die, or the crew investigates and planet and something awful happens. I swear that is about 80% of Voyager's run. After a point I was like "Can we please do something else for a while?" Oddly enough they did hear me since they did the flashback episode of Janeway's ancestor and another with The Doctor giving Seven of Nine dating tips. But those changes of pace are few and far between.
I think character wise I was most frustrated with the non development of Chackotay. The entire series went by and we never got a truly definitive origin episode for why he quit Starfleet, why he joined the Maquis, and why any of this was happening in the first place. I mean I think I know, since we saw the planet of Native Americans on TNG now under Cardassian rule. I'm assuming Chackotay's dad was killed by the Cardassians and the Federation did nothing, so he quit in protest and went vigilante with the Maquis. To me that's a hell of a kick ass character backstory and the show doesn't even show us any of it!
Oh and don't even get me started on the lameness of the plot itself overall. How many times did they get 'this close' to finding a wormhole or some device that would transport them back to the Alpha quadrant only to have it not work? It just made the show so annoying and frustrating since they would be foiled or made to look inept in order to sustain the "Voyager lost in the Delta quadrant" plot. It reminded me a lot of the old Karate Kid cartoon where they were after the Japanese trophy MacGuffin every week and it always slipped through their hands until I quit watching.
I watched these on Netflix but originally if you watched Voyager at the same time as DS9 this had to be almost laughable in some ways. On one show we have these goofs playing lost in space due to the actions of a blithering idiot of a captain, while on the other show we have a cataclysmic war that threatens the entire galaxy and involves Earth/Starfleet, the Klingons, Romulans, The Dominion, the Cardassians, and even the Breen. Voyager would have been better off just to have the ship find a way back to earth at the end of season 1 (some wormhole that works, or whatever) and then Starfleet simply assigns them to explore the uncharted quadrant. As noted, Voyager always held my interest even if for all the wrong reasons, haha. It certainly isn't dull.
Speaking of which, did anyone else think the Seska character on Voyager might have been the long lost daughter of the legate on DS9? Probably not but I did wonder.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Jul 25, 2017 11:00:03 GMT -5
Another thing with TOS is that there was network pressure to make it less radical. The original pilot had a female first officer (who was just known as Number One at the time and played by Majel Barrett, who was Roddenberry's mistress at the time. Scandalous!) who also had Spock's logical personality, while Spock at the time had emotions. NBC reportedly rejected the pilot because Spock looked "too satanic" and they thought audiences wouldn't buy the idea of a female XO. Granted, Robert Justman (one of the TOS producers) disputes that they rejected The Cage because of the female first officer but more because they didn't like Majel Barrett in that sort of leading role and Roddenberry made up the story in order to spare his lover's feelings. But yeah, I agree with everyone in how DS9 portrayed a wide diversity of women with different motivations, personalities, and character development, especially Kira. Even the minor characters like Leeta had their moments. They did such an amazing job with character development on that show and I think it was more a trailblazer than even TNG was in regards to modern day society. And one of the constant themes of character relationships was family and they did such a great job with it. The father-son relationships with Ben and Jake and then Joseph and Ben. The Visitor in particular did such a great job with that relationship and it legit made me cry by the end because of the performances between Brooks and the various actors that played Jake. And then you have the Cardassian concept of family, which is such a core part of their society. Even a being of pure evil like Gul Dukat became humanized and multidimensional when it came to the love for his half-Bajoran lovechild, Ziyal, especially when it came to the sacrifices to rest of his family and his career to even acknowledge her as his. Going back to Kira, that concept of family resulted in one of the strangest relationships in not just that show but the entire saga. When she was kidnapped by the Obsidian Order and altered to look like the daughter of a Cardassian legate named Tekeny Ghemor who was sympathetic to the dissident movement. In spite of those circumstances, the two bonded and Tekeny continued to think of Kira as his daughter even when the deception was revealed. Sadly, he died from an incurable disease. But the amazing thing with that relationship is that, for all the hatred Kira harbored for the Cardassians as a whole, he really did become a second father figure to her. She even buried him on Bajor next to the gravesite of her real father. Great post! I had heard that the reason the studio rejected The Cage was because it was deemed too cerebral for audiences. And they did take exception to a female first officer, as well as Spock that resembled the devil, but those weren't deal breakers. I think Kira Nerys had the best overall story arc or any Trek character. Compare her from the pilot to the last episode. She really changed and matured right before our eyes, going from being a Bajoran terrorist fighting Cardassians, to aiding them in their own rebellion. Especially in our post 9/11 world, that's something. Edited to add, I think the high water mark for Kira was after the Cardassians rebelled, and Damar's family was murdered. He asked who could do such a thing, and Kira echoed his statement. Afterwards, Damar killed a fellow Cardassian, saying his Cardassia was dead. I think in that moment, Kira finally triumphed over the Cardassians, finally defeated them, by making them see what and who they truly were, and had been during the Occupation.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 25, 2017 12:49:05 GMT -5
Damar's face turn was a nice slow burn, too, especially since he was made to realize just how messed up Cardassian society had become. And he was forced to come to terms with his own bad decisions. But unlike Dukat, who continuously justified or made excuses for his evils, Damar owned up to them.
The more serial format of DS9 led to so many great character development arcs that the episodic formats of previous series never really had. I liked that Enterprise also tried to do the serial format in the latter two seasons, even if everyone got sick of the Temporal Cold War metaplot that was in the background of the entire series. And while season 4 was more episodic, they had a lot of mini-plot arcs that were neat stories, like the Vulcan Reformation episodes.
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Post by Muskrat on Jul 25, 2017 13:09:08 GMT -5
Skeptical of this show due to that trailer, but f*** do I love seeing all the DS9 love. Probably my favourite series, but I do really love TOS. Like was mentioned, once they started transitioning into a much more serial style series DS9 became just amazing. Gul Dukat is the best villian Trek has ever done.
Sidenote, was Dwight from the Office supposed to be playing Harry Mudd?
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