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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Nov 17, 2015 13:15:24 GMT -5
If the guy you like wins the title and the guy you don't like doesn't. I'm not talking in terms of a mark reaction, I'm talking about knowing that the whole thing is a work, yet still getting upset when your guy isn't the guy with the title. I have an idea on why I get upset, but I'm going to stick it in my pocket for now until I see what some of you guys say.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Nov 17, 2015 13:19:46 GMT -5
Because the guy who is champ is the focus of the show, gets TV time and gets regular, long matches whereas usually, the rest of the roster bar a select few (Bray, Reigns, Ambrose etc) are treated as afterthoughts.
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Andy Martin
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Post by Andy Martin on Nov 17, 2015 13:24:48 GMT -5
I don't.(Or at least not enough to get mindblowingly upset over it.) A tv show just isn't worth that kind of thing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2015 13:27:22 GMT -5
I don't really hang my hat on any one guy, all I want from WWE are shows where actual stories develop and everyone is presented as the best in their field of work, as opposed to the current presentation where it feels like we're watching a bunch of pretenders failing upwards. I think the whole concept of "the guy" is doing WWE a lot of harm where if they just presented their shows as a bunch of talented guys with unique personalities and how they clash in a competitive combat sport (you know, pro wrestling) I think they'd naturally have a better time creating stars without burning any particular one out.
I think the reason people get so ornery about this shit is because if Cesaro is on this side being awesome all the time and seeing no benefit, while Reigns is provided a more linear path to the top, then that means (as Cena has shown us) if Reigns successfully reaches that zenith then we're going to be seeing this guy on top for years and years. There is also a little touch of some people complain about everything in there too but I think for the most part people just know how WWE's formula works more than ever and just know that once they get that "top guy" it puts everyone else on the shelf.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Nov 17, 2015 13:39:47 GMT -5
I really don't take it too seriously but basically I want Brock Lesnar to win every single match, and every time he doesn't I set fire to another one of my cats and upload the video to YouTube.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2015 13:43:26 GMT -5
The guys I usually enjoy watching are the ones who usually can go in the ring, have entertaining characters, put on promos and work well with everyone who works with them. That same guy getting the title becomes the main focus of the show and given that and given WWE's current model, the guy with the title will be cutting long promos, be in long matches, working with a variety of opponents and they'll be thrown everywhere to promote the company. The reason why I care is simply because the guys I enjoy have the best ability to do each of these things well rather than someone who can do one thing well and the others are lacking. It makes everyone look good in every area, the company as a whole, rather than "well he did well with this promo but his matches aren't great and he can't work with this guy" which is an issue.
It brings in more entertainment, more viewers and more compelling tv for everyone involved which is what the title holder should do.
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Post by Big Bad Kahuna on Nov 17, 2015 13:50:35 GMT -5
Yeah the most deserving/entertaining guys SHOULD be the ones fighting for the WWE title
Why not root for them then? Reigns is a good worker and I won't have a problem with him winning the title at SS, but as a total package he's miles behind Cesaro (I enjoy his mildmannered "european" promos), Owens, Rollins or Rusev atm
While I respect Cena or Reigns fans, I really wonder what exactly is so enjoyable about them except their inring skills and looks? (yeah Cena cuts a good serious promo here and there...) Is being hot a reason to be a fan of someone and want him to be champion? Sasha's not the hottest woman in WWE in my eyes, but she's the best female wrestler total package and I'd LOVE to see her as the divas champ
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Nov 17, 2015 13:52:22 GMT -5
I really don't take it too seriously but basically I want Brock Lesnar to win every single match, and every time he doesn't I set fire to another one of my cats and upload the video to YouTube. Considering that he's not even IN most matches, you're going to be singlehandedly responsible for cat genocide. |
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Nov 17, 2015 13:54:28 GMT -5
Yeah the most deserving/entertaining guys SHOULD be the ones fighting for the WWE title Why not root for them then? Reigns is a good worker and I won't have a problem with him winning the title at SS, but as a total package he's miles behind Cesaro (I enjoy his mildmannered "european" promos), Owens, Rollins or Rusev atm While I respect Cena or Reigns fans, I really wonder what exactly is so enjoyable about them except their inring skills and looks? (yeah Cena cuts a good serious promo here and there...) Is being hot a reason to be a fan of someone and want him to be champion? Sasha's not the hottest woman in WWE in my eyes, but she's the best female wrestler total package and I'd LOVE to see her as the divas champ Cena IS the total package even with his "good looks". He got over organically...WWE just fumbled it big time. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2015 13:56:00 GMT -5
Because I want the guy I like to win the title. It's pretty much the "movies are fake too" argument, but knowing it's fake doesn't make me less likely to latch on to a character, in fact 'characters' are virtually all fictional. And if I identify with and like a character, I'm going to want them to accomplish their biggest goal, and those goals are mostly title-oriented.
There is a different component though.
I have a need to see a wrestler as a main eventer, and know exactly why he is in that spot, because of attributes that make him so. Like Brock Lesnar...280 pounds of muscle, quick as a cat, trained in multiple fighting disciplines, and demonstrates (rather than purported to have) a huge mean streak. Yeah, I buy it! Some guys have to be more creative about it though. CM Punk, to me, did an amazing job at being The Man while being small and not that athletic. A lot of that had to do with promos, but his high skill level and well-roundedness in the ring also sealed it. And his matches were put together in ways where he'd pull out the win with pure guts and guile, it really became his identity as a babyface.
To put it simply, I just need to "believe it" with the people who win the title. And usually, the people that are my favorites are those kinds of performers, wrestlers who demonstrate what they do best and what makes them a top-flight competitor.
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Post by Big Bad Kahuna on Nov 17, 2015 13:58:23 GMT -5
Yeah the most deserving/entertaining guys SHOULD be the ones fighting for the WWE title Why not root for them then? Reigns is a good worker and I won't have a problem with him winning the title at SS, but as a total package he's miles behind Cesaro (I enjoy his mildmannered "european" promos), Owens, Rollins or Rusev atm While I respect Cena or Reigns fans, I really wonder what exactly is so enjoyable about them except their inring skills and looks? (yeah Cena cuts a good serious promo here and there...) Is being hot a reason to be a fan of someone and want him to be champion? Sasha's not the hottest woman in WWE in my eyes, but she's the best female wrestler total package and I'd LOVE to see her as the divas champ Cena IS the total package even with his "good looks". He got over organically...WWE just fumbled it big time. I meant current Cena He's stale as hell, gimmick is kinda nonexistent (umm guy who is loyal and respectful?), "funny" promos often cringeworthy, looks superhuman in his matches...all this could be changed via booking, but Vince likes dat repetitiveness |
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Post by Johnny on Nov 17, 2015 14:00:23 GMT -5
As long as the guys I like get a decent amount of ring time, I'm good. I use HBK as the example for this. He hardly touched the main event in his last few years, but for me it was his best run.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Nov 17, 2015 14:15:53 GMT -5
I have a thought in mind, regarding validation and "being right", but I'm having trouble really putting it into words.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2015 15:19:44 GMT -5
That is right up there with "You know its fake...right?!" Asking why people care when a guy they like loses is like asking why people freaked out with what happened on TWD a few weeks ago... ... {Spoiler}Glen potentially dying or asking why people would be upset if the Batman lost to the joker. Or whatever. Yes, they are fictional characters being portrayed by real people in a fake storyline (or sport in this case) but the whole reason people watch is because they become emotionally invested in that character's journey. Their trials and tribulations. To ask "Why do people get upset when Ceasro loses?" on the basis that wrestling is a work is right up there with asking why anyone gave a shit if Frodo destroyed the ring, "cause its fake you know? hobbits aren't real." |
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Nov 17, 2015 15:29:07 GMT -5
That is right up there with "You know its fake...right?!" Asking why people care when a guy they like loses is like asking why people freaked out with what happened on TWD a few weeks ago... ... {Spoiler}{Spoiler}Glen potentially dying or asking why people would be upset if the Batman lost to the joker. Or whatever. Yes, they are fictional characters being portrayed by real people in a fake storyline (or sport in this case) but the whole reason people watch is because they become emotionally invested in that character's journey. Their trials and tribulations. To ask "Why do people get upset when Ceasro loses?" on the basis that wrestling is a work is right up there with asking why anyone gave a shit if Frodo destroyed the ring, "cause its fake you know? hobbits aren't real." I think there is a difference. If a character dies, people don't get as personally offended as if a wrestler didn't win the title. There isn't the outrage at Robert Kirkman if Andrea isn't the center point of an episode or if Rick is the main character even though the best actor on the show is Glen(just using examples, not meant to get into a TWD debate). |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2015 15:34:49 GMT -5
That is right up there with "You know its fake...right?!" Asking why people care when a guy they like loses is like asking why people freaked out with what happened on TWD a few weeks ago... ... {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}Glen potentially dying or asking why people would be upset if the Batman lost to the joker. Or whatever. Yes, they are fictional characters being portrayed by real people in a fake storyline (or sport in this case) but the whole reason people watch is because they become emotionally invested in that character's journey. Their trials and tribulations. To ask "Why do people get upset when Ceasro loses?" on the basis that wrestling is a work is right up there with asking why anyone gave a shit if Frodo destroyed the ring, "cause its fake you know? hobbits aren't real." I think there is a difference. If a character dies, people don't get as personally offended as if a wrestler didn't win the title. There isn't the outrage at Robert Kirkman if Andrea isn't the center point of an episode or if Rick is the main character even though the best actor on the show is Glen(just using examples, not meant to get into a TWD debate). You must not be on twitter or any TWD-centric message boards because most definitely do get personally offended when characters get featured too much or not enough. Heck, there are people who get personally offended if they change a superhero's costume too much when they're making the movie or if they even announce they've cast someone "too short" for the role. Anytime someone is really passionate about a show - they get like that. I think we just see it here more because this is a wrestling-oriented message board. |
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Post by sonofblaine on Nov 17, 2015 15:44:18 GMT -5
There are very few people that I would legitimatly, non-kayfabe hate as champion. John Cena is really the only one I can think of, due to how incredibly smug and obnoxious he is. Reigns wouldn't enrage me, but he'd bore me. He's fun to watch, but personality wise, he's just dull.
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Post by Texas Tornado on Nov 17, 2015 15:53:46 GMT -5
I think there is a difference. If a character dies, people don't get as personally offended as if a wrestler didn't win the title. There isn't the outrage at Robert Kirkman if Andrea isn't the center point of an episode or if Rick is the main character even though the best actor on the show is Glen(just using examples, not meant to get into a TWD debate). You must not be on twitter or any TWD-centric message boards because most definitely do get personally offended when characters get featured too much or not enough. Heck, there are people who get personally offended if they change a superhero's costume too much when they're making the movie or if they even announce they've cast someone "too short" for the role. Anytime someone is really passionate about a show - they get like that. I think we just see it here more because this is a wrestling-oriented message board. Yeah, as a person that operated in a lot of TV fandom circles, this happens a ton. Hell, for a lot of shows the outrage makes wrestling fans look tame in comparison. |
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Nov 17, 2015 16:16:39 GMT -5
I don't really hang my hat on any one guy, all I want from WWE are shows where actual stories develop and everyone is presented as the best in their field of work, as opposed to the current presentation where it feels like we're watching a bunch of pretenders failing upwards. I think the whole concept of "the guy" is doing WWE a lot of harm where if they just presented their shows as a bunch of talented guys with unique personalities and how they clash in a competitive combat sport (you know, pro wrestling) I think they'd naturally have a better time creating stars without burning any particular one out. I think the reason people get so ornery about this shit is because if Cesaro is on this side being awesome all the time and seeing no benefit, while Reigns is provided a more linear path to the top, then that means (as Cena has shown us) if Reigns successfully reaches that zenith then we're going to be seeing this guy on top for years and years. There is also a little touch of some people complain about everything in there too but I think for the most part people just know how WWE's formula works more than ever and just know that once they get that "top guy" it puts everyone else on the shelf. Agreed 100%. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2015 16:48:30 GMT -5
I think the OP has a point, in that people invest more heavily in wrestlers than other fictional characters. And I think it's because wrestlers are really going out there and busting their ass in the ring, and they talk about it so openly now compared to the days of kayfabe. They're portraying a character, but the person lives and dies with that character in terms of his or her wrestling career, especially being that WWE is essentially the only game in town. And since the Attitude Era and even a bit before, WWE's really pushed that narrative and tried to get the actual human beings over with us.
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