Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Nov 19, 2015 20:35:46 GMT -5
THX 1138 is interesting, but I wouldn't call it good. You can see the talent in its filmmaker. Outside of ANH, I wouldn't consider any of his movies very good, at least in terms of direction. It became evident that George's ideas were far better off in the hands in others. American Graffiti was great.
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Nov 19, 2015 20:55:10 GMT -5
Nah. I never thought it was very good, personally. There were some decent performances, but I'd seen far too many movies like it, admittedly Graffiti ripoffs.
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Nov 19, 2015 21:01:56 GMT -5
Dazed and Confused is probably better than American Graffiti, but I still think it's a great movie. Outside of that, only Star Wars is his only great movie. The only other movie he directed that's pretty good is Revenge of the Sith. I'm sure most Star Wars fans know he didn't direct Empire or Jedi.
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xCompackx
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Post by xCompackx on Nov 19, 2015 21:26:05 GMT -5
I mean, it must suck to want your vision play out on the big screen and have to constantly deal with people telling you that your vision is awful. I'm not saying that it's not okay to criticize, but Lucas does have a point here.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 19, 2015 21:30:02 GMT -5
Maybe I partially empathize with him because I don't think the prequels are the bane of mankind like so many others do- and let's be honest, they technically aren't even bad movies, especially not when you don't hyper focus on the sand shit- but I understand feeling bad about having your unfiltered, straight from the heart vision of your most famous work get slammed so hard.
I'm pretty sure he's frustrated more with fan reaction than he is the idea of working with other people, it isn't as if he made Episodes 1-3 entirety by himself and that wouldn't be the same thing as increased creative control.
Yes, it took a large team and a variety of creative minds to make Star Wars as memorable a franchise as it is, but it's still his f***ing baby at the end of the day. It's ridiculous how so many fans seem to legit dislike him and hold him in contempt over fictional characters.
The idea that he needs to somehow be shooed out of Hollywood is stupid, and this is coming from someone who wanted to see Jar Jar get lightsabered through the skull as much as everyone else did (just adding that because I don't want any jokes about how George Lucas "took over my account"). If anything, more people should be thanking him for creating such memorable worlds.
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mizerable
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You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Nov 19, 2015 21:42:00 GMT -5
I mean, it must suck to want your vision play out on the big screen and have to constantly deal with people telling you that your vision is awful. I'm not saying that it's not okay to criticize, but Lucas does have a point here. Film does not work like that. And if you can't handle major criticism, then you shouldn't be an artist. Oh, he wants his vision? Then edit the film for his viewing and not force everyone else to go along with him without expecting some people to speak up.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 19, 2015 22:25:10 GMT -5
I mean, it must suck to want your vision play out on the big screen and have to constantly deal with people telling you that your vision is awful. I'm not saying that it's not okay to criticize, but Lucas does have a point here. Film does not work like that. And if you can't handle major criticism, then you shouldn't be an artist. Oh, he wants his vision? Then edit the film for his viewing and not force everyone else to go along with him without expecting some people to speak up. Not making any implications about Lucas here, but many of the all time great creative minds were pretty damn thin skinned. I doubt the most successful ones are able to shrug it off the way many imagine they can, we're just seeing the ones who can grin and bear it the most.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 19, 2015 22:47:02 GMT -5
He has to expect a bad reaction. Look at the "making of" documentaries for the prequels. He'll say shit like "Jar Jar is the key to all of this" and spends so much time focusing on irrelevant details like how many tentacles Pod Racer Alien #6 will have. Meanwhile the scripts sound like they were written in just a few days with no thought put into them. It backs up what Gary Kurtz said about Lucas believing that Star Wars fans no longer cared about story, but just SFX. The financial success of the prequels suggest he might have been right. From a business point of view, it's great. Creatively however, there was a massive decline.
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Post by BorneAgain on Nov 19, 2015 22:54:18 GMT -5
Lucas after ROTJ (and especially after his divorce to his wife Marcia) suffered from the same thing that happened to Gene Roddenbery in the 70s. The press and fans constant hype of his vision and genius got to him and without the the same crew/collaborators to work with, ended up getting too much free reign creatively, with the product suffering as a result.
The difference is that Roddenberry was a stronger and consistent writer in the past whose skills were eventually hampered by his tunnel vision regarding Trek while Lucas never stood out much in writing, especially dialogue. The funny thing is that Gene being kicked upstairs with the movies and his ailing health causing him to step away from TNG allowed him to still largely keep his creative reputation intact to the casual fan, while George's decisions with the Special Editions and prequels have left him a much more mixed legacy as a storyteller.
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xCompackx
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Post by xCompackx on Nov 19, 2015 22:58:50 GMT -5
Film does not work like that. And if you can't handle major criticism, then you shouldn't be an artist. Oh, he wants his vision? Then edit the film for his viewing and not force everyone else to go along with him without expecting some people to speak up. Not making any implications about Lucas here, but many of the all time great creative minds were pretty damn thin skinned. I doubt the most successful ones are able to shrug it off the way many imagine they can, we're just seeing the ones who can grin and bear it the most. Yeah, nobody likes seeing their work be shit on. I think that Lucas takes it a bit harder since it's his own creation. Also, a personal edit just for him which would take a lot of money to produce? Come on. He has to expect a bad reaction. Look at the "making of" documentaries for the prequels. He'll say shit like "Jar Jar is the key to all of this" and spends so much time focusing on irrelevant details like how many tentacles Pod Racer Alien #6 will have. Meanwhile the scripts sound like they were written in just a few days with no thought put into them. It backs up what Gary Kurtz said about Lucas believing that Star Wars fans no longer cared about story, but just SFX. The financial success of the prequels suggest he might have been right. From a business point of view, it's great. Creatively however, there was a massive decline. Without bashing Episodes 1-3 (which I still mostly enjoy), prequels in general are kind of a hard thing to do in the first place. When everything has to lead to a certain point, and especially when you have 3 movies to deal with all of the plot that leads you there, they didn't have a whole lot going for them when writing the prequels. And about Jar-Jar... well, I do think that on a technical level, it was pretty impressive. When Avatar-type technology was years off, it was neat seeing CGI interact with live-action so fluidly.
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mizerable
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You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Nov 19, 2015 23:04:36 GMT -5
Not making any implications about Lucas here, but many of the all time great creative minds were pretty damn thin skinned. I doubt the most successful ones are able to shrug it off the way many imagine they can, we're just seeing the ones who can grin and bear it the most. Yeah, nobody likes seeing their work be shit on. I think that Lucas takes it a bit harder since it's his own creation. Also, a personal edit just for him which would take a lot of money to produce? Come on. A lot of money that he has, plus it's the work of others, not himself. Outside of simply saying he wants duneback lizards cluttering up the frame, it's not like he's busting his ass. Besides, there's noticeably cheap effects added such as using a stormtrooper in the same shot, only mirrored. He'll never admit to it, but it's never been anything other than a scheme to get people to buy it. However the novelty wore off after Edited Version #607.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 23:26:38 GMT -5
I mean, it must suck to want your vision play out on the big screen and have to constantly deal with people telling you that your vision is awful. I'm not saying that it's not okay to criticize, but Lucas does have a point here. Film does not work like that. And if you can't handle major criticism, then you shouldn't be an artist. Oh, he wants his vision? Then edit the film for his viewing and not force everyone else to go along with him without expecting some people to speak up. Huh? Like it or not his name is all over Star Wars and he had every right to do what he wanted with the movies. What's the difference whether he edits the film for mass production or for his own self? You don't have to watch it. I never am a big fan of any artist reworking past projects whether it's in music or film but that's just my taste, I never get why people say a person should never explore a creative project as if it's being forced on them.
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mizerable
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You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Nov 20, 2015 0:21:50 GMT -5
Huh? Like it or not his name is all over Star Wars and he had every right to do what he wanted with the movies. What's the difference whether he edits the film for mass production or for his own self? You don't have to watch it. I never am a big fan of any artist reworking past projects whether it's in music or film but that's just my taste, I never get why people say a person should never explore a creative project as if it's being forced on them. Exploring a project is besides the point and it's just merely something that he hides behind. That wasn't my initial ccomplaint. Lucas bitches about the backlash...as if the audience shouldn't be able to speak out against it...or that his hands are tied when they aren't. You can't express artistic freedom without expecting some backlash. He's the one making a big f***ing deal out of it any time he gets a chance. He's essentially won on every front. He made those "amazing" edits that were always supposed to be there and he got the fans' money every step of the way. Yet he's still bitching and moaning that it isn't fair and that the fans are to blame because they didn't like what he gave them. This asshole gets ZERO sympathy from me. He's a hypocrite and a fraud. I don't have to watch his movies? I don't! I have been done with Star Wars for years. I can't give less of a damn where the franchise goes and how much money it makes. I'm just tired of hearing George sit around and play the victim all the while trying to escape the criticism he has brought on himself. The guy needs to f***ing grow some balls.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 20, 2015 0:24:14 GMT -5
Not making any implications about Lucas here, but many of the all time great creative minds were pretty damn thin skinned. I doubt the most successful ones are able to shrug it off the way many imagine they can, we're just seeing the ones who can grin and bear it the most. Yeah, nobody likes seeing their work be shit on. I think that Lucas takes it a bit harder since it's his own creation. Also, a personal edit just for him which would take a lot of money to produce? Come on. He has to expect a bad reaction. Look at the "making of" documentaries for the prequels. He'll say shit like "Jar Jar is the key to all of this" and spends so much time focusing on irrelevant details like how many tentacles Pod Racer Alien #6 will have. Meanwhile the scripts sound like they were written in just a few days with no thought put into them. It backs up what Gary Kurtz said about Lucas believing that Star Wars fans no longer cared about story, but just SFX. The financial success of the prequels suggest he might have been right. From a business point of view, it's great. Creatively however, there was a massive decline. Without bashing Episodes 1-3 (which I still mostly enjoy), prequels in general are kind of a hard thing to do in the first place. When everything has to lead to a certain point, and especially when you have 3 movies to deal with all of the plot that leads you there, they didn't have a whole lot going for them when writing the prequels. And about Jar-Jar... well, I do think that on a technical level, it was pretty impressive. When Avatar-type technology was years off, it was neat seeing CGI interact with live-action so fluidly. The prequels would have been easy to do had he focused on what really mattered and put some consideration into what he was writing. Yes Jar Jar interacted well with the live action, but in such an annoying and distracting way, he would have ended up with better films had he not used him at all.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2015 0:44:21 GMT -5
Huh? Like it or not his name is all over Star Wars and he had every right to do what he wanted with the movies. What's the difference whether he edits the film for mass production or for his own self? You don't have to watch it. I never am a big fan of any artist reworking past projects whether it's in music or film but that's just my taste, I never get why people say a person should never explore a creative project as if it's being forced on them. Exploring a project is besides the point and it's just merely something that he hides behind. That wasn't my initial ccomplaint. Lucas bitches about the backlash...as if the audience shouldn't be able to speak out against it...or that his hands are tied when they aren't. You can't express artistic freedom without expecting some backlash. He's the one making a big f***ing deal out of it any time he gets a chance. He's essentially won on every front. He made those "amazing" edits that were always supposed to be there and he got the fans' money every step of the way. Yet he's still bitching and moaning that it isn't fair and that the fans are to blame because they didn't like what he gave them. This asshole gets ZERO sympathy from me. He's a hypocrite and a fraud. I don't have to watch his movies? I don't! I have been done with Star Wars for years. I can't give less of a damn where the franchise goes and how much money it makes. I'm just tired of hearing George sit around and play the victim all the while trying to escape the criticism he has brought on himself. The guy needs to f***ing grow some balls. I just don't really get the anger. It seems like every time Lucas' name comes up people talk like the Phantom Menace came out yesterday. The guy had a hand in filming a revolutionary trilogy of films that 30+ years later is still revered, lost steam after that and he'll never hear the end of it. It's easy to say "you're a millionaire, get over it" but I don't think any of us truly know how we would deal with someone telling us we're shit in the volume that he must hear it. The criticism soundly defeated him and now he's out of everyone's way, he's not a threat to anyone but yet he still elicits such venom from people.
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mizerable
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You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Nov 20, 2015 1:00:52 GMT -5
I just don't really get the anger. It seems like every time Lucas' name comes up people talk like the Phantom Menace came out yesterday. The guy had a hand in filming a revolutionary trilogy of films that 30+ years later is still revered, lost steam after that and he'll never hear the end of it. It's easy to say "you're a millionaire, get over it" but I don't think any of us truly know how we would deal with someone telling us we're shit in the volume that he must hear it. The criticism soundly defeated him and now he's out of everyone's way, he's not a threat to anyone but yet he still elicits such venom from people. He elicits venom because he's still whining about stupid shit. I'm over the prequels, the edits, the merchandise, the upcoming movie...all that. I purposely avoid Star Wars threads because I don't want to seem like a hypocrite. The exception is this is a thread about George Lucas still blaming his shortcomings and avoidance of future chapters of "his" creation because of the fans. That is an outright joke. The man has a flaw that he can't honestly look at his work and see how others would see it. Yes, there's other artists that get defensive, however I'd say most either get over it, or are at least justified in the sense that they were limited in what they could do either by budget or by producers. Hell, Vince Russo has more of a gripe than George does. He needs to move on. He had complete control over his creation, a lot more than most film makers. He made the changes he wanted. He had a successful franchise. He is a multi billionaire. Yet he still complains that he didn't get a fair shake. Give me a break. The dude is a joke.
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Post by StormanReigns on Nov 20, 2015 1:21:53 GMT -5
Being experiential?
You called Phantom Menace a 'kids movie', yet filled it with dialogue about tariffs and trade disputes. I have a political science degree and even I found all that boring
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 20, 2015 1:22:48 GMT -5
I just don't really get the anger. It seems like every time Lucas' name comes up people talk like the Phantom Menace came out yesterday. The guy had a hand in filming a revolutionary trilogy of films that 30+ years later is still revered, lost steam after that and he'll never hear the end of it. It's easy to say "you're a millionaire, get over it" but I don't think any of us truly know how we would deal with someone telling us we're shit in the volume that he must hear it. The criticism soundly defeated him and now he's out of everyone's way, he's not a threat to anyone but yet he still elicits such venom from people. He elicits venom because he's still whining about stupid shit. I'm over the prequels, the edits, the merchandise, the upcoming movie...all that. I purposely avoid Star Wars threads because I don't want to seem like a hypocrite. The exception is this is a thread about George Lucas still blaming his shortcomings and avoidance of future chapters of "his" creation because of the fans. That is an outright joke. The man has a flaw that he can't honestly look at his work and see how others would see it. Yes, there's other artists that get defensive, however I'd say most either get over it, or are at least justified in the sense that they were limited in what they could do either by budget or by producers. Hell, Vince Russo has more of a gripe than George does. He needs to move on. He had complete control over his creation, a lot more than most film makers. He made the changes he wanted. He had a successful franchise. He is a multi billionaire. Yet he still complains that he didn't get a fair shake. Give me a break. The dude is a joke. No, the only thing that could be considered a "joke" is how big a deal so many disgruntled fans make out of what he did to his own - emphasize on "his own" - franchise. Shit, I'm inclined to applaud Lucas for being as patient as he's been with his critics. If I had that many hour long online rants about how terrible I was and the number of unfunny parodies about me that he's gotten, I probably would flipped out and had a major public meltdown- and I don't mean a Twitter meltdown, I'm talking the kind of thing that gets you arrested - eons ago.
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mizerable
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You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Nov 20, 2015 1:27:37 GMT -5
Considering the age we live in nowadays, it's probably good that he got out while he did. Now if he could only stay away. Aww..who am I kidding? He'll be back after Episode 7's release apologizing that the movie wasn't his vision. Or perhaps saying that the media is racist because his newest movie got mixed reviews. He does it to himself. No one is forcing his hand. And that's why he deserves no sympathy. Shit, I'm inclined to applaud Lucas for being as patient as he's been with his critics. If I had that many hour long online rants about how terrible I was and the number of unfunny parodies about me that he's gotten, I probably would flipped out and had a major public meltdown- and I don't mean a Twitter meltdown, I'm talking the kind of thing that gets you arrested - eons ago. No different than any other big name celebrity or politician. The difference is they were either mature enough to handle it with grace or they ignored it altogether. And you're going to get arrested because someone made fun of your space adventure made for kids? I think that's a tad extreme.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 20, 2015 1:33:21 GMT -5
Considering the age we live in nowadays, it's probably good that he got out while he did. Now if he could only stay away. Aww..who am I kidding? He'll be back after Episode 7's release apologizing that the movie wasn't his vision. Or perhaps saying that the media is racist because his newest movie got mixed reviews. He does it to himself. No one is forcing his hand. And that's why he deserves no sympathy. Dude, you're literally talking like George Lucas committed some horrible crime or something. This isn't Bill Cosby or Chris Benoit we're discussing here.
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