CMWaters
Ozymandius
Rolled a Seven, Beat the Ads.
Bald and busy
Posts: 63,061
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Post by CMWaters on Dec 20, 2015 21:28:58 GMT -5
I'm so happy people are pointing out just how stupid it was to undermine the mystery behind the Force. Both Obi Wan and Yoda mentioned that it's something that exists but we can't see it, and it works in the most mysterious of ways. It can go light at times, it can go dark in others, it can fade away for a long time, and it can "awaken." You can't just do a simple blood test to determine it's will. It works on it's own time and terms. People who have tried to make it work for them have destroyed themselves and their own humanity(Nihilus, Sideous, Vader, Snoke, etc.) Yet, in the prequels, the Jedi do exactly that and there's no obvious ramifications for doing so. I don't get it. I think of it this way: the Force is just the energy that lives through and penetrates all. Most are unaware how to tap into it, but if you have enough Midichlorians in your blood, then you have a better chance to use and understand The Force. So in essence, midichlorians are not The Force, they're just something that people have that can DETECT enough of The Force. I could be off base with it, but that's how I've always seen it.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 20, 2015 21:38:09 GMT -5
Midi-chlorians never needed to be brought into the equation. The Force should have been entirely mystical.
"Life creates it" was enough.
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tms
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,901
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Post by tms on Dec 20, 2015 21:40:43 GMT -5
I will say one thing, Mace Windu was made to look strong in ways that Roman Reigns could only dream of.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 20, 2015 21:43:22 GMT -5
"You....are....so.....bea...u...tiful""It's only because I'm so in love""No...it's.....because....I'm so in love with.....you""So love has blinded you?""Hur hur....no.....hur hur" If this is how Lucas thinks people who are in love talk, it's no wonder he's been divorced.
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Professor Chaos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bringer of Destruction and Maker of Doom
Posts: 16,332
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Post by Professor Chaos on Dec 20, 2015 21:45:58 GMT -5
Think is the longest running thread I ever made since ODB's Butt Stinks.
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tms
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,901
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Post by tms on Dec 20, 2015 22:02:10 GMT -5
Think is the longest running thread I ever made since ODB's Butt Stinks. The stench is strong with this one.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 20, 2015 22:26:05 GMT -5
Man, even the awful love story dialogue could've worked...if the point of it had been that Anakin was a completely non-slick doofus around Padme, but in a way that became endearing, not unabashedly creepy like it was in the actual films.
Take that scene mentioned above, change it around:
(A pregnant Padme catches Anakin admiring her as she stands by the window, smiles at him)
Anakin: (blushing) Sorry, you're...you're just so beautiful right now.
Padme: (good natured smirk) Well, being in love can do that to a person.
Anakin: Then it...um...m-must be doing it to me, too, because I-I feel in love...uh...
Padme: (gives a "you're such a dork" laugh, walks over, embraces him) You never were any good at wordplay.
There: you've gotten Padme to speak like a real person, and humanized Anakin by making him relatable to the audience, showing that even the super-powerful Jedi gets antsy and nervous around the person he's head-over-heels for. That's what keeps getting me again and again; you can take almost all of the ingredients that are in the prequels and make something decent out of them (well, ok, not everything, but you get my point), but there just wasn't much thought put into them from a storytelling point of view.
I just saw a really good overview of Orson Welles' movie "F For Fake", where the guy reviewing it draws on a concept many writers and editors like to use: when composing something, never use "and then?" as a prompt to continue writing/editing/etc. "And then?" is an immature question, and just takes us from set piece to set piece, moving the story along even at the expense of actually getting the audience attached to the world you're attempting to create. Instead of "And then", go with "but", "therefore", or "meanwhile" - "therefore" moves you to show that things that happen have consequences and fallout, "but" shows contradiction and opposition from an antagonistic force, and "meanwhile" takes you from one story thread to a different one so that you can keep the story fresh for the audience. The prequels, I feel, are some of the worst big budget "and then" offenders.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,038
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 20, 2015 22:29:37 GMT -5
Man, even the awful love story dialogue could've worked...if the point of it had been that Anakin was a completely non-slick doofus around Padme, but in a way that became endearing, not unabashedly creepy like it was in the actual films. Take that scene mentioned above, change it around: (A pregnant Padme catches Anakin admiring her as she stands by the window, smiles at him) Anakin: (blushing) Sorry, you're...you're just so beautiful right now. Padme: (good natured smirk) Well, being in love can do that to a person. Anakin: Then it...um...m-must be doing it to me, too, because I-I feel in love...uh... Padme: (gives a "you're such a dork" laugh, walks over, embraces him) You never were any good at wordplay. There: you've gotten Padme to speak like a real person, and humanized Anakin by making him relatable to the audience, showing that even the super-powerful Jedi gets antsy and nervous around the person he's head-over-heels for. That's what keeps getting me again and again; you can take almost all of the ingredients that are in the prequels and make something decent out of them (well, ok, not everything, but you get my point), but there just wasn't much thought put into them from a storytelling point of view. I just saw a really good overview of Orson Welles' movie "F For Fake", where the guy reviewing it draws on a concept many writers and editors like to use: when composing something, never use "and then?" as a prompt to continue writing/editing/etc. "And then?" is an immature question, and just takes us from set piece to set piece, moving the story along even at the expense of actually getting the audience attached to the world you're attempting to create. Instead of "And then", go with "but", "therefore", or "meanwhile" - "therefore" moves you to show that things that happen have consequences and fallout, "but" shows contradiction and opposition from an antagonistic force, and "meanwhile" takes you from one story thread to a different one so that you can keep the story fresh for the audience. The prequels, I feel, are some of the worst big budget "and then" offenders. A fan edit I saw took all three films, trimmed them down, and combined them into one 2 hour or so film. It even managed to include a deleted scene with Padme's family, and overall made the romance seem more believable, keeping the film from being as mired in pointless subplot distractions. If I can remember the name, I highly recommend it.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 20, 2015 22:50:54 GMT -5
This is what happened.
Lucas sat down at his desk and needed the thinnest of stories to tack two hours of special effects onto. That's all. Plot, characters, dialogue etc...None of these things mattered beyond the superficial. It's been said before that after Empire, Lucas decided that story didn't matter. Special effects were the draw. He couldn't do it with Jedi because the writing and directing were still being handled by other people. When it came to the prequels, he had no obstacle to his new philosophy.
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Ryushinku
King Koopa
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Member is Online
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Post by Ryushinku on Dec 21, 2015 5:29:29 GMT -5
I think of it this way: the Force is just the energy that lives through and penetrates all. Most are unaware how to tap into it, but if you have enough Midichlorians in your blood, then you have a better chance to use and understand The Force. So in essence, midichlorians are not The Force, they're just something that people have that can DETECT enough of The Force. I could be off base with it, but that's how I've always seen it. No, you're totally right. Midiclorians were never meant and never said to be The Force. No more than an eyeball is sight.
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Post by StormanReigns on Dec 21, 2015 5:38:39 GMT -5
Hands down my favorite of the prequel trilogy. "Execute order 66" is an epic moment in the franchise as a whole IMO. It would have actually been good if you had any emotional connection to any of the characters who died in that scene. Jar Jar had more screen time in that movie than any of those Jedi who died in that scene.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 21, 2015 23:59:53 GMT -5
I think this guy managed to articulate some of what a bunch of us have been writing about in this thread: that Lucas really could've taken a lot of what was in the prequels and done something amazing with them, but he either couldn't or didn't really want to. George Lucas Nearly Wrote a Perfect Prequel Trilogy. He Just Didn't Notice.Put aside the poor scripts, poor and lazy direction, over reliance on CGI, etc., and just look at the story of the prequels - I think the one fatal flaw that doomed them was merchandising. Specifically, Lucas was not willing to depict the Jedi Order as at least having become flawed in some significant way, and he probably didn't want to because it would be harder to market Jedi toys and merchandise if they were not seen as paragons of virtue. If he could have emphasized that the Jedi had become complacent, or too dogmatic, or otherwise compromised or what have you by the time the prequels are happening, it would've made Anakin's fall so much more understandable and interesting. But imperfect Jedi would threaten merchandise profit margins, and that's not a creative risk he was willing to take, or at least that's how it felt.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 22, 2015 1:07:05 GMT -5
But imperfect Jedi would threaten merchandise profit margins, and that's not a creative risk he was willing to take, or at least that's how it felt. So basically...
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Post by StormanReigns on Dec 22, 2015 3:34:38 GMT -5
"You....are....so.....bea...u...tiful""It's only because I'm so in love""No...it's.....because....I'm so in love with.....you""So love has blinded you?""Hur hur....no.....hur hur" If this is how Lucas thinks people who are in love talk, it's no wonder he's been divorced. These two had better on camera chemistry and dialogue (I am not even joking)
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Post by moondoggie on Dec 22, 2015 9:45:12 GMT -5
As far as Shmi Skywalker is concerned, she shouldn't have been his mother at all. His true parentage should have stayed unexplained. The audience can form their own conclusions. Shmi should have been a kindly old lady who found him as an infant and took him in. In fact, neither of them should have been slaves at all, but perhaps just independent traders and mechanical tinkerers on Tatooine. That way, they could have ditched the entire pointless pod-racer shit. They crash land on Tatooine. Anakin helps them. Qui-Gon senses how powerful he is. Shmi says her goodbyes and eventually dies off-screen. Anakin leaves and becomes a Jedi. I like the idea of him being a slave, it plays well (in theory) into him seeking justice and respect, that desire being twisted into a desire for power and vengeance, and ultimately it making him a slave to the Dark Side and the Emperor. Its also that he had the desire to free slaves and bring justice to the universe yet after becoming Vader he practically had the whole universe as his slaves leading up to the Rebels trying to face against him and bring peace to the universe.
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