ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Dec 28, 2015 15:28:50 GMT -5
First off, this is a schitty deal all the way around. A 12 year old boy is dead and shouldn't be. I don't grasp the instant labeling of "******* racists" by a poster above. Zero mentions of any qualified racist activity by either of the officers in question were made in the article linked in the OP. Not trying to inflame a touchey subject but that was my observation. I also did not find any specific racist actions by the officers in anything else I read about this incident. They did this in less than two seconds and while I absolutely understand the fluid nature of use of force situations quite well, I still did not read anything that suggested or confirmed that any warnings occurred prior to the rounds being fired. Further neither attempted any first aid whatsoever. Additional responding units did. I got taught very early that if you do anything physical to a suspect, right or wrong you provide care to the extent that safety and your experience allows. A grand jury reviewed this. Not an internal department board or office. They determined there was not any criminality to the use of force. Got it. But that does zero to makes this right. The kid is just as dead. The officer will live with this the rest of his life. But more unfortunately so will Rice's parents. I just wanted to come in here and tip my cap to you and say thank you. You're a rare breed these days, in that you admitted you did not know much about the case, so you went out of your way to read about it and gather information, then came back later with an informed opinion. Unfortunately, there's not nearly enough of that anymore, it's all about kneejerk reactions to the news of the day, whether it's in online forums or on social media. Sir, I thank you for your kind words and return the tipped cap salute. I wish you long days and pleasant nights
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 28, 2015 15:52:53 GMT -5
I have very little confidence in this thread going anywhere good, but we'll leave it open for the time being. Absolutely no flaming or veering the conversation towards the political will be tolerated.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2015 16:01:11 GMT -5
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Post by Alyce: Old Media Enthusiast on Dec 28, 2015 16:02:19 GMT -5
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 28, 2015 16:05:19 GMT -5
For some reason I can't turn this coverage off, they're showing so much irrelevant stuff to paint Tamir Rice as someone who deserved it. And talking about how they started handling "active shooters"(!) differently after Columbine. what the f*** does this have in common with Columbine? When there was the first day of deliberation in the Freddie Gray case, CNN.com featured a story that referred to Gray as "the son of an illiterate heroin addict" as if that were the slightest bit germane to his killing. Whether it's conscious or not, all too often the media attempts to portray black victims of police violence as "the other" who is somehow deserving of such a fate. If not overtly racist in intention, part of it may also be an intent on some of the media to provide a "balanced" perspective. Or rather, throwing out information regardless of its accuracy or relevance to a case. In this instance, arguably an attempt to appease either supporters of the officer, people who just harbor ugly and racist attitudes or any overlaps in that regard. Regardless, it's still part of a harmful sense of complacency towards racist narratives many people hold. You could also thank social media for this, but the fact that more people are speaking out against this sort of thing is a small sliver of hope.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Dec 28, 2015 16:13:40 GMT -5
For those that wonder why anyone calls the cops racists, I can only offer one explanation. I think that the protocol would have been different had he been white.
Here's the reality. If someone calls in a report of someone who has what may or may not be a toy gun at the park, the police have to investigate it. Now, even if there is a real gun that does not mean that any foul play is necessarily inherent - Ohio is an open carry state, after all, so unless there is a local ordinance that bars guns from the park then no laws necessarily have to have been broken.
The expected protocol would be to park the car a distance from the suspect, ensure the car grants you some cover, announce yourself and the reason why you are there, and then, depending on the actions of suspect, proceed with your investigation. The video clearly shows them use their car to rush Tamir. Even if it were a real gun, in such a spur of the moment thing wouldn't anyone think that they were about to be assaulted and move to defend themselves? To me, the cops behavior was designed to scare the suspect, escalate the situation, and perhaps justify the shooting that occurred 2 seconds upon arrival.
Again, this is an open carry state. Simply having a gun in public is not supposed to be a big deal (I mean, I don't like it, but whatever). My problem is that the police department acts as though this was routine and acceptable protocol, which means that it will happen again. I want cops to investigate things like my first scenario (which, to be fair, they often do) and I want this methodology to be expunged from all playbooks. I don't think I am getting my wish.
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lodirulz
Hank Scorpio
Live as the color red in a world of black and white.
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Post by lodirulz on Dec 28, 2015 16:18:23 GMT -5
Alright, my toned down version of the post that I wrote at first goes a little something like this:
It is horrendous that this verdict was delivered, and that the same verdict was delivered in the case of the Freddy Gray officers and the Sandra Bland officer.
Black Lives do matter, but I wish that the legal system would show that.
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Post by MC Blowfish on Dec 28, 2015 16:18:27 GMT -5
Here's an idea : how about these kids stop pointing their toy guns at random strangers and making them think that they're about to get shot? Sad that he died, and yes, the cop most likely did react too quickly and should face some punishment, but these kids need to use common sense. First of all, he was a kid. We all did stupid stuff as kids. Second of all, the cops flew up on him, hopped out, and killed him. No warning at all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2015 16:26:33 GMT -5
Here's an idea : how about these kids stop pointing their toy guns at random strangers and making them think that they're about to get shot? Sad that he died, and yes, the cop most likely did react too quickly and should face some punishment, but these kids need to use common sense. First of all, he was a kid. We all did stupid stuff as kids. Second of all, the cops flew up on him, hopped out, and killed him. No warning at all. The way that went down, there's no way someone doesn't get shot. The cops put themselves in what they thought was a life-threatening situation. What I think is going on is that there's no explicit laws regarding police procedure, so technically they broke no laws when they screwed that up. Then, once they were in that life-threatening situation due to the bad dispatch work and their own bad police work, they were authorized to use force to protect themselves. Maybe having explicit laws on how police officers are to approach an armed suspect is part of the answer, because as it stands, its arguable that the officers didn't break any laws.
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pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Dec 28, 2015 16:30:55 GMT -5
There have been three cops gunned down dead in three separate incidents in the area I live in this past year, and another one was fired at until the perp could flee into cover. All of them did not fire a shot at the gun-wielders. No news coverage on that. About the same amount of non-sympathy too.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Dec 28, 2015 16:35:19 GMT -5
Alright, my toned down version of the post that I wrote at first goes a little something like this: It is horrendous that this verdict was delivered, and that the same verdict was delivered in the case of the Freddy Gray officers and the Sandra Bland officer. Black Lives do matter, but I wish that the legal system would show that. This is not a verdict, that would end the process completely, this is a no bill from a grand jury saying they do not see enough to charge this person with a crime at this time or feel the evidence at this time means the should not be charged. That is key because should someone else take over the DA's office or something leaks that makes the need for charges undeniable (I know the case, just follow along), the officer(s) involved can still be charged and since this is a murder, that will follow them forever.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 28, 2015 16:37:47 GMT -5
Not gonna say too much since I'm already getting a sense this thread is gonna go south and I don't want to play a part in it (I usually find myself getting mad in these threads) but I will say that this is a sad situation for all parties involved and I give my condolences to the family of Tamir.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,349
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Dec 28, 2015 16:40:38 GMT -5
There have been three cops gunned down dead in three separate incidents in the area I live in this past year, and another one was fired at until the perp could flee into cover. All of them did not fire a shot at the gun-wielders. No news coverage on that. About the same amount of non-sympathy too. You are not wrong. Cop malfeasance definitely is a headlines grabber, as is anything that smells like it. I believe this qualifies as malfeasance. Not all of the cases that make the news do, but I think this one does. Having said that, there are plenty of cases where cops don't get credit for de-escalating stressful circumstances and the risks they face does sometimes get marginalized in the name of selling the other stories. Fortunately, there have been a few stories in the past few weeks where cops got some well deserved good headlines, but those don't sell as well as clickbait headlines do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2015 16:51:53 GMT -5
Unfortunate situation, but it's pretty much the only way it was going to play out.
Toy guns are for the backyard.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 28, 2015 17:19:50 GMT -5
There have been three cops gunned down dead in three separate incidents in the area I live in this past year, and another one was fired at until the perp could flee into cover. All of them did not fire a shot at the gun-wielders. No news coverage on that. About the same amount of non-sympathy too. This is such a staggering false comparison. Cops being murdered do not need protests, rallies, or any other form of demand for social justice from a racist judicial system to be considered wrong. Cop killing is already considered an evil by society and the perpetrators, when found, are almost always made to face justice for their actions. This is not always the case for when black civilians, regardless of whether they're completely innocent or guilty of some sort of crime, are gunned down by cops whose lives aren't in any immediate danger. And this is in spite of damning evidence like video recordings from police dashcams, bodycams, and/or witness cell phone video along with testimony.
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Big Poppa Pumpkin
Dennis Stamp
I'll be in the back polishing............ my belt.
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Post by Big Poppa Pumpkin on Dec 28, 2015 17:35:12 GMT -5
Hadn't heard of this case before, never heard of Tamir Rice, or like anything about it, and I don't live in the States. Yet I correctly guessed that this would be about a US cop murdering a black kid before I even opened the thread just based on the words 'no charges' and 'death'. This seems to happen pretty often, eh?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2015 17:38:54 GMT -5
It's just gonna keep happening i don't even see how anyone can be mad anymore just seems normal now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2015 17:40:41 GMT -5
Hadn't heard of this case before, never heard of Tamir Rice, or like anything about it, and I don't live in the States. Yet I correctly guessed that this would be about a US cop murdering a black kid before I even opened the thread just based on the words 'no charges' and 'death'. This seems to happen pretty often, eh? Not as often as the media would suggest, but more often than would be liked, sure.
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Post by MC Blowfish on Dec 28, 2015 17:58:47 GMT -5
Unfortunate situation, but it's pretty much the only way it was going to play out. Toy guns are for the backyard. Cops are trained to de-escalate and properly assess a situation. Not run up, hop out of their car, and open fire.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2015 18:00:15 GMT -5
It is crazy just how calculating they were about announcing this. 2 p.m. on a Monday after a holiday, on 35 degree rainy day, with an hours notice.
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