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Post by Just call me D.j.m. on Dec 30, 2015 14:55:17 GMT -5
Before you go on about SJWs and the wussification of America, a reminder. The wrestling business, at its core, is a business built on the idea that the viewing and paying audience need to be treated as if they are complete idiots who believe that what they are watching is real when it is very clearly staged. Performers and people in the periphery of the wrestling business have it ingrained into them that the people that pay tickets and allow them to be rich and famous deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule, simply for being entertained by their fake sport. It's a con. We're stupid marks. I think in 2015, fans that don't appreciate being disrespected on that level daring to speak up aren't in the wrong. As someone here mentioned, look at the guys who attend and dress up at Comic Con some spending weeks or months at times to get the costume and character right and go and meet their favorite actors. You don't see a guy there like Steve Blum treat those who loved him as Spike and other characters he's voiced with barely concealed disdain or ridicule them for watching the show and being invested in the characters and what happens to them. I'm planning on going to my first one, the one were Sean Schemmel and Christoper Sabat will be attending, and I'll do my damndest not to faint at being in the same area as those who voice some of my favorite characters and hopefully get them to sign my copy of Dragon Ball Xenoverse. Sean Schemmel's as nice as nice can be. Chris Sabat on the other hand, ehhh. I got a weird vibe from him. But yeah. THIS.
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Post by machomuta on Dec 30, 2015 15:01:52 GMT -5
I've never known an industry hate the people that buy the product so much as wrestling. WWE hates the IWC, because they always complain. The IWC is never happy. The IWC would much rather talk about the things they hate, then the things they like. and btw Joey Styles is 100 % right.
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Post by xCompackx on Dec 30, 2015 15:34:48 GMT -5
I've never known an industry hate the people that buy the product so much as wrestling. WWE hates the IWC, because they always complain. The IWC is never happy. The IWC would much rather talk about the things they hate, then the things they like. and btw Joey Styles is 100 % right. Assuming this isn't sarcasm (and apologies if it is), I think the "IWC" would be completely fine if the actual product was any good. NXT never has a problem earning compliments.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Dec 30, 2015 15:56:33 GMT -5
See that's what bothers me the most about the WWE and the product. To give an example. It's like going to a restaurant and trying out something new, you try a little bit and find that it's not to your liking, so you ask for the manager and say you didn't like the meal and didn't want to finish it. In the process you ask to try something else, in which a manager who appreciates your business, will be open to suggestion and actually bend over backwards to accommodate the consumer.
Anyone who appreciates or actually believes in good to great business practices won't say to the customer "YOU don't know what you like. I KNOW what you like." That's the mindset that Vince and company have developed. Rather than listening to the fans, looking at the ratings, and buyrates they take it personally and become very vindictive and insult the audience by rebelling, putting out a half-assed product, and bringing out guys just to spite the audience and then they wonder why the ratings don't change.
Look there's no denying that some people will never be happy. The WWE could put out the most exciting, intelligent, coherent, and unpredictable product and someone will still complain. However, They should still want to make money and actually maintain those fans(customers) rather than losing them. Eventually those same kids/families that their product is geared heavily towards will grow up, find something new, or possibly grow out of the product so they need to stop insulting the consumers, sending out yes men, and actually develop a thicker skin and put out something that doesn't alienate the majority of the fanbase.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Dec 30, 2015 16:00:26 GMT -5
Man, Joey sold out HARD. That's actually f***ing sad.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Dec 30, 2015 16:01:58 GMT -5
Joey Styles gotten to.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Dec 30, 2015 16:02:03 GMT -5
For example, look at Marvel and how successful they've become. Sure, not every fan is happy with what they've put out. But because they don't insult their audience or try to tell them what they want they've become very well regarded and they clearly appreciate the fans. WWE is the only game in town and that's why they continue putting out what they do, because in totality, the ones who complain will still watch out of necessity rather than moving on.
I haven't really watched a full episode of Raw and when I have watched wrestling it's usually at the gym with background noise. It's never at home where they get ratings from me, I haven't subscribed to the Network, haven't purchased a Pay Per View, or bought any WWE related DVD's for quite sometime. I think the last wrestling DVD I bought was the Shawn Michaels/Bret Hart DVD which included their sitdown interview with Jim Ross. That was five years ago.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Dec 30, 2015 16:05:17 GMT -5
Believe it or not, it's actually probably worse with film. Then again, film might be even shadier than wrestling, and that's saying something. Yeah, and outside of the televised companies, it's actually WORSE. I've seen indy jerks go off on fans online too....only not general, they pick on specific people AND encouraged other fans to harass them. No lie, I had a buddy of mine go through wrestling training, had about....a half dozen matches in him, and already was acting like he'd been around "the loop" a dozen times, and big leaguing fans at shithouse indy shows. It was f***ing incredible to watch. Needless to say, we are no longer friends.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 16:17:21 GMT -5
It's a forum gimmick for about 10% of the regulars on this board to forego wrestling discussion and just wait for someone to dislike things so they can insult them back using straw man arguments that carefully barely skirt board flaming rules, so hey why not invite Styles in.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Dec 30, 2015 16:22:38 GMT -5
I don't completely agree with his...demeanor....I guess would be the word....but he's not entirely wrong either
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
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Post by Lancers on Dec 30, 2015 16:26:55 GMT -5
Internet wrestling fans seem pretty happy with NXT, NJPW, ROH, PWG and Lucha Underground these days. Sure there's some nitpicking, but the majority seem pacified.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
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Post by fw91 on Dec 30, 2015 16:27:21 GMT -5
Um based on the wording of his tweets, I'm pretty sure he's having a conversation with a dick smark on twitter who's tweets we can't see here. I don't see what Style's is doing wrong here.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Posts: 38,560
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Post by fw91 on Dec 30, 2015 16:28:23 GMT -5
Why do so many people online always seem to get butthurt about this sort of thing (not so much on here, everyone has a laugh here, but elsewhere on net)? he's just giving his opinion, tries to engage with his followers by asking them a question and cracks a few light hearted jokes about the "IWC" as well as gives some opinions in a calm way, yet I see people losing their minds in anger at him. If you get offended by words on a screen typed by someone you've never met about a tv show where half naked men pretend to fight directed at a mythical group that many of these same fans will swear not to be a part of (yet still get overly offended at any critism hurled at said group ) that blatantly from the way they were written were meant in good humour then maybe you need to stop watching wrestling, switch off your computers and go outside for 10 minutes. It's not just a problem with wrestling fans, its a problem with society in general today, every one is so quick to react and feign outrage about every thing with half the facts or by collectively misinterpreting it, its basically the return of mob mentality. *applause*
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 16:37:24 GMT -5
Meanwhile, almost 10 years ago:
Hmmm..........
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 16:41:24 GMT -5
You know... I still watch clips on YouTube, but I get most of my follow-ups via review shows on the Fight Network and Angry Marks, as well as seeing you guys banter back and forth. I only watched parts of a few episodes in the past few months, and haven't seen a full episode since SmackDown left MyNetwork TV in 2010.
It used to be that I didn't follow due to lack of resources, but now it's just more of the fact that I can stomach people that already saw it better than seeing it myself because A) I don't really have the time and B) the product is not entertaining.
But, he's only partially right. He's right on the fact that some fans will delude themselves into thinking that Pro Wrestling Guerrilla and Lucha Underground will overtake WWE, but it's the same fanaticism (though probably with a lot less cult leanings) that TNA fans still rally around. But he's not right on the fact that there are people who love wrestling but don't like WWE or have given up on WWE, not because of any "hipster" reasons, but because they wanted to see change in the face of pro wrestling, and not seeing that change, went elsewhere for their entertainment where their involvement does make a difference. There are assets of the IWC that are insufferable, but all fanbases have those groups.
I do agree that pro wrestling is the one source of entertainment where all the major players who are in charge of it basically hate their fanbase.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Dec 30, 2015 16:46:28 GMT -5
Believe it or not, it's actually probably worse with film. Then again, film might be even shadier than wrestling, and that's saying something. I've been working in the film industry for over 20 years and I've never found that. It may be indifferent to the audience at times but I've never noticed the outright hostility that wrestling has. Most people I've worked with have been really good people trying to do their best to entertain the audience with the odd David Duchovny who has a hate on for their fans. To be fair to the film industry, a lot of that scorn directed at fans is from the acting part of the community, and a lot of it is driven by the level of the unpleasant fan confrontations they deal with. I can't even imagine what Duchovny's had to deal with from certain X-Files fans. Hell, look at how Jake Lloyd turned out, and what drove him there. Stalkers, golddiggers, scammers, psychopaths, constant threat of home invasion and property trespassing...there are some pretty damning reasons for a lot of them to turn sour on their fanbases.
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Post by Chip Jordan on Dec 30, 2015 16:54:43 GMT -5
Boxing promoters have ignored their problems for years - and are now left fighting over a shrinking pond. Wrestling will go the same way with this attitude.
You only need to look at your local toy store to see WWE is getting it's ass kicked by Marvel, Star Wars, Lego etc... That's the real competition.
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Jeff Mangum PI
Hank Scorpio
11 herbs and spices for the rest of eternity; Is Number Two. Number Two!
The 2nd Coming
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Dec 30, 2015 17:00:38 GMT -5
Somewhere Josh Matthews reads these tweets on his Blackberry and thinks to himself, "This dude needs to chill out."
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4TheGlory
Vegeta
The Fun One At Parties
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Post by 4TheGlory on Dec 30, 2015 17:07:43 GMT -5
WWE is getting record low ratings and he is seriously doing the whole "no one will ever beat WWE" gimmick? Attitudes like that is how major companies go down the toilet. they think they are invincible.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 30, 2015 17:14:29 GMT -5
I've been working in the film industry for over 20 years and I've never found that. It may be indifferent to the audience at times but I've never noticed the outright hostility that wrestling has. Most people I've worked with have been really good people trying to do their best to entertain the audience with the odd David Duchovny who has a hate on for their fans. To be fair to the film industry, a lot of that scorn directed at fans is from the acting part of the community, and a lot of it is driven by the level of the unpleasant fan confrontations they deal with. I can't even imagine what Duchovny's had to deal with from certain X-Files fans. Hell, look at how Jake Lloyd turned out, and what drove him there. Stalkers, golddiggers, scammers, psychopaths, constant threat of home invasion and property trespassing...there are some pretty damning reasons for a lot of them to turn sour on their fanbases. Indeed, I shudder to imagine the type of unpleasant shit people like John Cena, Roman Reigns, Big Show, The Bella Twins, Eva Marie would have sent to them on social media based on something that essentially boils down to "I want someone else to win the matches you guys win". I mean, yeah, they'd probably never read it, but that doesn't stop people from sending it and getting that Jerry Lawler "Maybe YOU won't be here next week" level of smug satisfaction.
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