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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 18, 2016 12:36:46 GMT -5
This is the same guy that said that the death of Superman was the first time comic book death was invoked. Despite Jean Gray dying and returning at least twice by that point. (as well as comic book death being a pretty huge joke by that point in general) Max Landis doesn't let facts get in the way of a good story. Except Marvel really hammered it in that Phoenix died while Jean was in suspended animation. Superman was literally the guy being killed and then DC went "healing coma that looks like he's dead" which shat all over how meaningless deaths are in comic books. Ok... then how about Elektra. died in 1982. Was resurrected 9 issues later in 1983. The rule of comics, even before the death of Superman in 1993, was always "No one stays dead, except for Bucky, Uncle Ben, and Jason Todd." then later even Bucky and Todd were brought back to life... Hell at the time everyone knew that the Death of Superman was only a temporary story. Landis is 100% wrong in his dissertation that Superman ruined death in comics because DEATH WAS ALREADY A JOKE. Hell the f***ing Golden Age Joker died at the end of every single encounter he had with Batman.
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Post by Stone Cold Eleanor Shellstrop on Dec 18, 2016 12:47:45 GMT -5
Second example is cheap gratuious pop. Sounds like pro wrestling to me.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 18, 2016 13:22:37 GMT -5
Phoenix initially WAS Jean Grey.
They didn't do that 'Jean was in a cocoon' and it wasn't really her thing till years later.
Dark Phoenix ended in 1980. Jean didn't come back till 1986.
In no way did Superman's death in 1992 pioneer anything. Hell, they killed him in a Silver Age story. It was just the perfect storm of promotion and hype that put it front and center in pop culture.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 18, 2016 13:33:35 GMT -5
Phoenix initially WAS Jean Grey. They didn't do that 'Jean was in a cocoon' and it wasn't really her thing till years later. Dark Phoenix ended in 1980. Jean didn't come back till 1986. In no way did Superman's death in 1992 pioneer anything. Hell, they killed him in a Silver Age story. It was just the perfect storm of promotion and hype that put it front and center in pop culture. and I only brought up Jean because Landis did in his movie about characters that died and came back to life after Superman's death and return. Ignoring that she already did... TWICE. not to mention another thing that's pre-Death and return of Superman was this.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 18, 2016 13:38:02 GMT -5
Not to mention Crisis on Infinite Earths. Its whole thing has as much to do with a meta-textual house cleaning and moving around of characters and histories as it did with an awesome story.
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Post by captainhindsite on Dec 18, 2016 13:48:38 GMT -5
I liked Chronicle, but he's wrong about Rey in Star Wars. What did he say?
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Dec 18, 2016 13:50:24 GMT -5
f***er is still spot on. This is why I get confused when people put down he Attitude Era. As crude as it may have been, the quality of the show as a whole was way better. It felt like a world where anyone could interact with anyone at the same time. More spontaneity. More interesting storylines. "Yeah but who does that get over?": The fricken product, Seth Freaking Rollins. I feel the same way. Everybody felt important. The crowd was on fire and damn near everyone had a sign. You had everybody trying to kill each other, whether it was for the Hardcore, European, or WWF Title. Things were interesting. You could have Val Venis say The Rock has pebbles for balls, and Rock would say, "The Rock will see you in the ring, jabroni!" and your main even is Rock vs. Val Venis is a solid competitive match. And it was totally possible Rock could lose. Yeah, you had garbage, but Raw was can't miss back then. Now you can predict months of shows, not watch, and not miss a damn thing. Yep. Closest I can compare it to to today's scene is if they had Big E. go up against Roman when they were pushing him hard: Younknow Big E has no chance, whereas yeah, Rock/Val would of been competitive. They focus too much on fabricating stars as opposed to enriching the product.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 18, 2016 14:03:30 GMT -5
I'm gonna say the same thing I said in the Rogue One thread: can the term "mary sue" die a quick and painful death, please? It's totally meaningless now.
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Post by benstudd on Dec 18, 2016 15:18:10 GMT -5
Second example is cheap gratuious pop. Sounds like pro wrestling to me. Correction: Russo Wrestling.
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Dec 18, 2016 15:29:55 GMT -5
I know it's been said before but damn WWE sounds like a horrid place to work It's REALLY strange. WWE will bend over backwards for any celebrity who's willing to spend 10 minutes on RAW to shill whatever project they're working. But if a celebrity like Landis or Freddy or whoever else actually works FOR them? "What's Mr. Hollywood think he knows about THIS BIZNISS?! Smile, nod, and tell him to go the **** away." They probably only do it to catch Vince up to speed on current pop culture trends. This kinda made sense at the time they hired Freddie.
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Post by benstudd on Dec 18, 2016 15:32:53 GMT -5
Sorry for the uber bump, but here's a new video from Max about his experiences meeting the likes of Seth. Talks a bit about storytelling and there's a bit about Brauwn. I don't think Strowman beating up the cruiserweights would do anything for anybody. It was done in WCW and TNA and it didn't work. If he beats them, they look like punks, if they beat him, he looks weak. There has to be a better way to integrate every aspects of the show. Still, back on Nitro, most things were separated, you had the big boys, the cruiserweights, etc...but they managed to make the shows exciting by doing things with all the feuds. You could have DDP waring with the nWo in one segment and you had Jericho doing skits mocking Dean Malenko. You just have to put some effort across the board. The biggest problem in the WWE they have no red hot main event angle. Once you have that, you have eyes on your product and then do some stuff for the midcard and things just fall into place.
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Dec 18, 2016 17:38:24 GMT -5
I'm gonna say the same thing I said in the Rogue One thread: can the term "mary sue" die a quick and painful death, please? It's totally meaningless now. Can we at least reserve it for Kitty Pryde?
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 18, 2016 18:10:17 GMT -5
I'm gonna say the same thing I said in the Rogue One thread: can the term "mary sue" die a quick and painful death, please? It's totally meaningless now. Can we at least reserve it for Kitty Pryde? Which one? Kitty was a fun character in Evolution.
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JoDaNa1281
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Dec 18, 2016 18:32:48 GMT -5
I liked Chronicle, but he's wrong about Rey in Star Wars. Agree, Rey is not a "Mary Sue"...Alice from the "Resident Evil" movies, now THAT'S a "Mary Sue".
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 18, 2016 18:50:18 GMT -5
I liked Chronicle, but he's wrong about Rey in Star Wars. Agree, Rey is not a "Mary Sue"...Alice from the "Resident Evil" movies, now THAT'S a "Mary Sue". Yeah... no one is allowed to look good compared to Alice. She had to accomplish everything.
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Dec 18, 2016 20:50:17 GMT -5
Can we at least reserve it for Kitty Pryde? Which one? Kitty was a fun character in Evolution. 2004-present 616 Kitty. I liked Evolution Kitty, too.
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on Dec 18, 2016 23:12:31 GMT -5
Max actually released a photo of his time consulting for the WWE. Here's a photo of him after watching a recent episode of Raw:
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Post by The Shareholder is nude on Dec 19, 2016 0:18:22 GMT -5
Max Landis is one of the most annoying people on the planet and a no talent hack who, if he didn't have the last name Landis, would be still at the University of Miami trying to sell movie scripts.
And every woman he has slept with is ugly and psychotic.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Dec 19, 2016 6:47:22 GMT -5
Can we at least reserve it for Kitty Pryde? Which one? Kitty was a fun character in Evolution. Comics Kitty is one of the most comical examples of a mary sue in the medium. "look at me I'm only 14 but I'm so cute and everyone lurves me and I'm a ninja and a ballet dancer and a computer hacker and I have a pet dragon and I'm always right about everything and I have characters like Wolverine and Professor X totally henpecked and you could remove me from literally every story and it wouldn't change anything and.." seriously, comics Kitty is the worst.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Dec 19, 2016 7:02:09 GMT -5
I feel the same way. Everybody felt important. The crowd was on fire and damn near everyone had a sign. You had everybody trying to kill each other, whether it was for the Hardcore, European, or WWF Title. Things were interesting. You could have Val Venis say The Rock has pebbles for balls, and Rock would say, "The Rock will see you in the ring, jabroni!" and your main even is Rock vs. Val Venis is a solid competitive match. And it was totally possible Rock could lose. Yeah, you had garbage, but Raw was can't miss back then. Now you can predict months of shows, not watch, and not miss a damn thing. Yep. Closest I can compare it to to today's scene is if they had Big E. go up against Roman when they were pushing him hard: Younknow Big E has no chance, whereas yeah, Rock/Val would of been competitive. They focus too much on fabricating stars as opposed to enriching the product. And this is why Rock vs. Austin or Undertaker vs. Kane doesn't have the same stigma that Del Rio vs. Sheamus and Charlotte vs. Sasha have. They knew how to present something like Rock vs. Val Venis or Rock vs. Steve Blackman on a Raw show so they wouldn't have to do Rock vs Mankind for the 14th billionth time on Raw and then at the next PPV.
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