Lt. Palumbo
Hank Scorpio
On again off again watcher of a wrestling TV show
Posts: 6,067
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Post by Lt. Palumbo on Apr 4, 2016 7:00:29 GMT -5
With just a few tweaks, the show goes from alright, to very decent. Yeah, but even the tweaks you suggest aren't necessarily who won. So I stand by saying it wasn't just who won and lost that's making people hate the show. I completely agree that Dean didn't need to win, it just needed to be a more impressive (probably slightly longer) match with at least one memorable spot or bit of story telling about the grit and determination of Dean Ambrose. I had no real problem with AJ losing. Was bummed that Sasha didn't win, but it didn't take massively away from a great match. And the tweak needed in HHH/Roman was...passion. Seriously, this thing was a bloodfeud that culminated in the most plodding, boring match ever. You're exactly right about it needing to be faster paced or more brutal. Not only was it SEVEN hours into the show, but they absolutely knew for fact that the majority of those in attendance wanted to shit all over it from the word go. You need to over deliver in that situation. Re the ATGBR. I'm not even mentioning "taking spots from people". I was fine with Tatanka and DDP, but Shaq as the big reveal of the thing seemed a little late in the day on the relevance front.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 4, 2016 7:27:13 GMT -5
Of course it isn't. The main real issue was just wrong people going over.
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bb8me
Mike the Goon
Posts: 32
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Post by bb8me on Apr 4, 2016 7:34:38 GMT -5
I don't think it cracks the top three worst of 9, 11, & 27, but it's pretty close. Basically the IC Title and Women's Title matches are what's salvageable from the show. I've just never seen so many mind boggling decisions in regards to booking. It's like they were just f***ing with the crowd all night long, and I have no idea why. Regardless, it's really given me no reason to start watching again. Good...we don't need more negative feelings on the board... Bye...
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Jeff Mangum PI
Hank Scorpio
11 herbs and spices for the rest of eternity; Is Number Two. Number Two!
The 2nd Coming
Posts: 6,957
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Apr 4, 2016 7:36:52 GMT -5
I don't think it cracks the top three worst of 9, 11, & 27, but it's pretty close. Basically the IC Title and Women's Title matches are what's salvageable from the show. I've just never seen so many mind boggling decisions in regards to booking. It's like they were just f***ing with the crowd all night long, and I have no idea why. Regardless, it's really given me no reason to start watching again. Good...we don't need more negative feelings on the board... Bye... Uh, ok. Maybe next week YOU won't be around!
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bb8me
Mike the Goon
Posts: 32
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Post by bb8me on Apr 4, 2016 7:43:04 GMT -5
Good...we don't need more negative feelings on the board... Bye... Uh, ok. Maybe next week YOU won't be around! Because I have a difference of opinion...? I don't understand...trying to keep the board positive and you want to create "fighting"...? Am I missing something here...?
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Jeff Mangum PI
Hank Scorpio
11 herbs and spices for the rest of eternity; Is Number Two. Number Two!
The 2nd Coming
Posts: 6,957
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Apr 4, 2016 7:53:14 GMT -5
Uh, ok. Maybe next week YOU won't be around! Because I have a difference of opinion...? I don't understand...trying to keep the board positive and you want to create "fighting"...? Am I missing something here...? First off, you came at the other dude for no reason. Second, I was making a joke. Y'know, Wade Barrett & Jerry Lawler? "Next week, YOU won't be around!"
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Apr 4, 2016 7:53:33 GMT -5
History will be kind to it, when we rewatch it on the network in months or years to come I think a greater appreciation of the woman's match and AJ/Jericho and these matches role in the card will grow. However you can't put on a 6 hr show and main event it with a rest hold style match between two guys who don't mesh and expect the tired audience both at home and in the stadium to go home happy. People keep saying AJ/Jericho will help its reputation...why? 27 still gets ripped apart and this was essentially a worse Orton/Punk, especially when you consider Jericho and AJ have done more or less very similar matches 4 times now. That one was definitely weaker than their Smackdown match, for one. "No no people will look back on this fondly it had some adequate matches!" I noticed posts continually cite the women's triple threat, when it's like these three women have had so many better matches together in different pairings this match has nothing special about it. This was probably not the worst Wrestlemania but it was a subpar show.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,372
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Post by Push R Truth on Apr 4, 2016 7:54:56 GMT -5
No, the only answer is no.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 8:40:13 GMT -5
Will say if nothing else I'm hardpressed to think of a Mania where all of the big selling point matches were as bad as the three last night. Dean / Lesnar was a massive disappointment that felt like a few weapons removed from Brock's house show squashes, Shane / Taker was a stupid joke that was laid out in exactly the wrong way and went on WAY too long, and Reigns / Triple H was an especially boring Raw main event. Had three headliners and none of them delivered.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Apr 4, 2016 8:42:57 GMT -5
Will say if nothing else I'm hardpressed to think of a Mania where all of the big selling point matches were as bad as the three last night. Dean / Lesnar was a massive disappointment that felt like a few weapons removed from Brock's house show squashes, Shane / Taker was a stupid joke that was laid out in exactly the wrong way and went on WAY too long, and Reigns / Triple H was an especially boring Raw main event. Had three headliners and none of them delivered. Wrestlemania 2000 was pretty damn bad. Sold around the awful 4 corners 4 mcmahons fork you four corners match.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 8:48:24 GMT -5
Will say if nothing else I'm hardpressed to think of a Mania where all of the big selling point matches were as bad as the three last night. Dean / Lesnar was a massive disappointment that felt like a few weapons removed from Brock's house show squashes, Shane / Taker was a stupid joke that was laid out in exactly the wrong way and went on WAY too long, and Reigns / Triple H was an especially boring Raw main event. Had three headliners and none of them delivered. Wrestlemania 2000 was pretty damn bad. Sold around the awful 4 corners 4 mcmahons fork you four corners match. Eh. That one's main selling points were basically the ladder match, which delivered in spades, and the four way which I honestly don't think is that bad. Rather overbooked, goes on too long, and there's zero reason for Big Show to be there, but I think it's a decent brawl.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Apr 4, 2016 9:01:24 GMT -5
(8) The Rock beat Erick Rowan at 0:06 in an impromptu match.The talk is this happened, to get rid of the 18 seconds from the record books. Lovely Gesture to DB. Id have changed things up a bit though, Have Rocky beat Eric, fine.. Then either bring Cena down and do a tag, or have Rock go through Strowman (or Bray) and then lose to the other. Then have the Wyatts go on the attack, and Cena comes in and saves the day. That would be odd, considering 18 seconds isn't the record for shortest Mania match, nor has it ever been. Kane vs Chavo was shorter.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,684
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Post by fw91 on Apr 4, 2016 9:05:35 GMT -5
No where near. Change a few results, and people would be praising the hell out of it So basically change the entire event and it would have been good....got it. no. Keep the in ring action the same. Just change the winners. Seriously guys, this section of the forums has been infuriating lately. Maybe I'm just getting older. Dissenting opinions are fine and part of the appeal of the iwc. But the false entitlement and childish self righteous replies in many threads is getting ridiculous.
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Post by Urfarkendarf on Apr 4, 2016 9:20:10 GMT -5
Will say if nothing else I'm hardpressed to think of a Mania where all of the big selling point matches were as bad as the three last night. Dean / Lesnar was a massive disappointment that felt like a few weapons removed from Brock's house show squashes, Shane / Taker was a stupid joke that was laid out in exactly the wrong way and went on WAY too long, and Reigns / Triple H was an especially boring Raw main event. Had three headliners and none of them delivered. Wrestlemania 2000 was pretty damn bad. Sold around the awful 4 corners 4 mcmahons fork you four corners match. True, but Wrestlemania 2000 has 1 thing going for it that this show doesn't: The product was RED HOT. They hadn't even peaked yet in terms of popularity by then (that was X7). Wrestlemania 15 was also a pretty crappy show on whole. They could get away with lukewarm or even bad Manias then since the ratings were so damn good for the weekly TV and Wrestlemania 2000 didn't change that. 2000 also was still in the era where the multiple main event wasn't really a thing yet. The point of this year having 3 "tentpole" matches and all of them failing to deliver is a spot on analysis IMO despite the bright spots. I can live with the booking decisions last night. I don't think it is even bottom 5 worst Manias (I can name 5 shows that I dislike more), but this one is historic b/c of the attendance #s and is going to be hammered into our brains until they break the record again and this show is not worth that kind of attention. They had a chance to do something here not only for the immediate but to set themselves up for the year and really blew it.
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Post by Ron Woodsman aka Shempaholic on Apr 4, 2016 9:25:49 GMT -5
I can't call it one of the worst Wrestlemanias. I will say it was one of the most disappointing Wrestlemanias of all time. It was a show with some excellent matches that was marred by some of the poorest booking decisions I've ever seen. Not to mention it was extremely overlong. The main event was not great, and the decision to lower the crowd volume made it worse. Any crowd reaction is better than no crowd reaction.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 9:26:03 GMT -5
Meltzer made good points. He felt like they told the lower card to hold back due to the Shane/Taker and Trips/Reigns matches. An example he used is Kalisto/Ryback. Even on regular tv matches they didn't do all the cool stuff they could do in their WM match due to that.
It's what I figured and one reason why Ambrose/Lesnar was hindered, same with some other matches.
Damn.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 9:26:18 GMT -5
Having the main show go almost 5 hours was ridiculous especially with a 2 hour pre show. If you want to have a little overrun at wrestlemania for some sort of surprise that's fine but they were in the overrun before HHH/Reigns had even started their entrances.
It made the booking decisions that much worse because you had to sit on bad decisions being chained together over and over for SO LONG. That and the entire main event sounded like it was taking place 3 miles away while we listened in via a tin cup on a rope because they turned the crowd mics off. If anyone was ever excited about anything I sure as hell wouldn't know, because you can't hear them.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 10:51:56 GMT -5
Upon reflection of sleeping for 10 hours...
It was a pile of dogshit and the worst Mania I've watched live. 30 MINUTE Shane vs. Taker Hell in a Cell, 30 MINUTE title match where the crowd hates both guys, complete with an "awesome" entrance where we get told what mindless drones we are by heels who are destined to be on TV forever. The f*** ever man. After New Day/LoN, this thing went off the rails hard.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Apr 4, 2016 11:28:21 GMT -5
Absolutely not. A few of the actual matches were pretty good. Booking of the stories was weird, but before the finishes mostly everything was "ok" at the least. The Cell and ME matches were definitely the low points for me. I'd personally say next to bottom rung of Mania's, but the ones at the bottom of that list are so entirely terrible that it's got quite a bit of wiggle room.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 4, 2016 11:32:32 GMT -5
Absolutely not. A few of the actual matches were pretty good. Booking of the stories was weird, but before the finishes mostly everything was "ok" at the least. The Cell and ME matches were definitely the low points for me. I'd personally say next to bottom rung of Mania's, but the ones at the bottom of that list are so entirely terrible that it's got quite a bit of wiggle room. Yep, it's down near the bottom ... Might be one of the worst I've seen live.... but it's not the #1 worst ever.
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