Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2017 12:56:24 GMT -5
Star ratings for wrestling are like star ratings for movies. Every critic, and every moviegoer, has their own opinion. Just because Roger Ebert gave something four stars doesn't mean everybody will agree. Meltzer, or you, or anyone else, can have their opinion about which match on a show they liked best and what they feel each match earned star-wise. Or you can just say "damn, that was great." It's all the same thing. You liked it, or you disliked it. It's always just been a method of offering recommendations to other people about which matches are the best, if you haven't seen them yet.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 28, 2017 14:09:51 GMT -5
Omega/Okada is one of the best matches I've seen this year, but the key term is "one of them".
I keep dancing between that, AJ/Cena and Naito/Tanahashi for my 2017 top spot as of now. I don't get into star ratings too much, but I'd give all three of those *****.
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Post by BRAINFADE on May 28, 2017 14:09:58 GMT -5
Omega vs Okada and Tanahashi vs Naito were both easily five stars for me. I don't do more than five stars, but they were both on that level IMO. I just interpret Meltzer giving it six stars as him saying it's the best match he thinks he's seen and his favorite match, which is absolutely fair to say. No idea why anyone would get bent out of shape over his opinion. People put more stock into Meltzer's ratings than he does. It's like exactly as weird and disrespectful as me saying my favorite movie is Tetsuo: The Iron Man and one of you taking aim at me because I didn't say Balto, since you really love movies about heroic dogs. Good for you, we both like things. People need to build a bridge and get over it. I'm not specifically targeting anyone here, although I've seen this same sentiment expressed on this forum as well. Who gives a shit, honestly. It's a wholly respectable, informed opinion from a man who has certainly earned the right to have whatever match he pleases as his favorite. This weird culture where there are so many people who base their opinions and arguments depending on where they stand either with or against one dude's opinion is baffling to me. It's a weird thing to get hung up on. I think Meltzer's ratings are good for starting conversations, but that's about it. As for the Omega/Styles debate, there wasn't a single match Styles did in WWE that I enjoyed as much as Omega's run because nothing feels like it matters in the WWE, whereas Omega's matches against Tanahashi, Naito, and Goto off the top of my head were all f***ing fantastic and felt like they meant something. It's cool on paper that Styles had such a successful year in the WWE but only in that weird meta way of "wow, Styles is WWE champion and hella over in the WWE, good for him." None of the matches, promos, feuds, did anything for me. But that's because I don't dig the WWE style at all. If someone else enjoys it, fine. Absolutely agree with people putting way too much stock in Meltzer's ratings. He's stated many times that it's purely just his opinion, and that all wrestling is subjective. I'm also getting really sick of hearing the whole "5 stars because Tokyo Dome" crap. Have the people who say that considered that the reason these matches (and the build ups) from the Dome are getting those 5 star ratings us because they're pretty damn good? At the end of the day though, does it really matter? I think Okada vs. Omega was the greatest pro wrestling match I've ever seen. I also know some didn't care for it too much. Whatever. Wrestling is an art, and like all art is purely subjective.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 28, 2017 14:13:11 GMT -5
Omega vs Okada and Tanahashi vs Naito were both easily five stars for me. I don't do more than five stars, but they were both on that level IMO. I just interpret Meltzer giving it six stars as him saying it's the best match he thinks he's seen and his favorite match, which is absolutely fair to say. No idea why anyone would get bent out of shape over his opinion. People put more stock into Meltzer's ratings than he does. It's like exactly as weird and disrespectful as me saying my favorite movie is Tetsuo: The Iron Man and one of you taking aim at me because I didn't say Balto, since you really love movies about heroic dogs. Good for you, we both like things. People need to build a bridge and get over it. Honestly, Balto vs. Steele was maybe ***1/2 at best. Balto sold way too much.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on May 28, 2017 17:33:29 GMT -5
Omega vs Okada and Tanahashi vs Naito were both easily five stars for me. I don't do more than five stars, but they were both on that level IMO. I just interpret Meltzer giving it six stars as him saying it's the best match he thinks he's seen and his favorite match, which is absolutely fair to say. No idea why anyone would get bent out of shape over his opinion. People put more stock into Meltzer's ratings than he does. It's like exactly as weird and disrespectful as me saying my favorite movie is Tetsuo: The Iron Man and one of you taking aim at me because I didn't say Balto, since you really love movies about heroic dogs. Good for you, we both like things. People need to build a bridge and get over it. Honestly, Balto vs. Steele was maybe ***1/2 at best. Balto sold way too much. It's called "storytelling", something you indy movie marks know nothing about. Balto sold out more theaters than Tetsuo was played in, what you know about that?
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 28, 2017 18:12:04 GMT -5
Honestly, Balto vs. Steele was maybe ***1/2 at best. Balto sold way too much. It's called "storytelling", something you indy movie marks know nothing about. Balto sold out more theaters than Tetsuo was played in, what you know about that? To be fair, Balto was the best worked animated movie of that year. Pocahontas drew more, but she would get blown up quick. It was a downturn from the previous year's Lion King, which was easily a ***** Disney film.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on May 28, 2017 21:13:12 GMT -5
It's called "storytelling", something you indy movie marks know nothing about. Balto sold out more theaters than Tetsuo was played in, what you know about that? To be fair, Balto was the best worked animated movie of that year. Pocahontas drew more, but she would get blown up quick. It was a downturn from the previous year's Lion King, which was easily a ***** Disney film. Lion King was a spot-for-spot remake of Kimba, Americans should have been trading tapes so they'd know that Disney doesn't respect the business.
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metylerca
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Post by metylerca on May 28, 2017 22:29:20 GMT -5
Omega/Okada is one of the best matches I've seen this year, but the key term is "one of them". I keep dancing between that, AJ/Cena and Naito/Tanahashi for my 2017 top spot as of now. I don't get into star ratings too much, but I'd give all three of those *****. My current top 3 as well. I rate Omega/Okada above the other two, but not by much.
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Post by eJm on May 29, 2017 2:04:52 GMT -5
Wasn't sure where to post this but NJPW's YouTube channel is continuining it's "upload awesome matches" streak by uploading Styles/Nakamura from Wrestle Kingdom 10.
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Ultimo Gallos
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on May 29, 2017 2:35:09 GMT -5
I liked the story of the match, that if Omega had just been able to hit One Wing Angel, he would have won, whereas it took four Rainmakers to put Omega down (Side note: I think the version of the move Daivari uses on 205 Live looks a lot more devastating) Maybe I need to track down the full version without all the commercial breaks. Some of you guys are making me feel bad because I didn't find it absolutely amazing. Don't feel bad. I personally found the match to be average at best. Shown it to a few friends and all of them found it the same.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 29, 2017 3:29:24 GMT -5
To be fair, Balto was the best worked animated movie of that year. Pocahontas drew more, but she would get blown up quick. It was a downturn from the previous year's Lion King, which was easily a ***** Disney film. Lion King was a spot-for-spot remake of Kimba, Americans should have been trading tapes so they'd know that Disney doesn't respect the business. Yes, but it was a far more technically accurate portrayal of real African lions (who don't live in the jungle). Kimba was a decent storyteller, but Disney had Tezuka beat when it came to athleticism and keeping up the pace of the film. The wildebeest chase spot was innovative at the time.
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the2ndevil
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Post by the2ndevil on May 29, 2017 8:44:09 GMT -5
I just want to say I adore the turn this thread has made.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on May 29, 2017 10:49:49 GMT -5
Lion King was a spot-for-spot remake of Kimba, Americans should have been trading tapes so they'd know that Disney doesn't respect the business. Yes, but it was a far more technically accurate portrayal of real African lions (who don't live in the jungle). Kimba was a decent storyteller, but Disney had Tezuka beat when it came to athleticism and keeping up the pace of the film. The wildebeest chase spot was innovative at the time. Disney just used the same movie structure that they use for any movie. Face gets some shine, heel takes control, face regroups and becomes friends with meekrat and warthog, face makes a comeback, they trade signature spots and the face wins after hitting their finish. And the wildebeast spot was nothing new anyway, it was just a tweak of the dance scene from Beauty and The Beast. Let me know when Simba does a 630.
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Fundertaker
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Post by Fundertaker on May 29, 2017 11:23:43 GMT -5
Yes, but it was a far more technically accurate portrayal of real African lions (who don't live in the jungle). Kimba was a decent storyteller, but Disney had Tezuka beat when it came to athleticism and keeping up the pace of the film. The wildebeest chase spot was innovative at the time. Disney just used the same movie structure that they use for any movie. Face gets some shine, heel takes control, face regroups and becomes friends with meekrat and warthog, face makes a comeback, they trade signature spots and the face wins after hitting their finish. And the wildebeast spot was nothing new anyway, it was just a tweak of the dance scene from Beauty and The Beast. Let me know when Simba does a 630. ... dive.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Jun 30, 2017 16:30:47 GMT -5
Okada/Omega 2 airs tonight on AXS
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Jun 30, 2017 22:59:20 GMT -5
Also all day tomorrow NJPW is on
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Jul 14, 2017 20:51:01 GMT -5
Tonight's episode was
Will Ospreay vs. Kushida in the Best of the Super Juniors finals
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Jul 21, 2017 23:40:06 GMT -5
Tonight's episode was
Hiromu Takahashi vs. Kushida for IWGP jr. title Hirooki Goto vs. Minoru Suzuki for Never Open weight title
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jul 21, 2017 23:46:49 GMT -5
Omega/Okada is one of the best matches I've seen this year, but the key term is "one of them". I keep dancing between that, AJ/Cena and Naito/Tanahashi for my 2017 top spot as of now. I don't get into star ratings too much, but I'd give all three of those *****. I think Okada/Omega I is the best match I've ever seen but Naito/Tanahashi is in my top five all time as well. That shit was brilliant. That match gave me hope that maybe storytelling isn't dead in this great business.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 22, 2017 14:34:28 GMT -5
Omega/Okada is one of the best matches I've seen this year, but the key term is "one of them". I keep dancing between that, AJ/Cena and Naito/Tanahashi for my 2017 top spot as of now. I don't get into star ratings too much, but I'd give all three of those *****. I think Okada/Omega I is the best match I've ever seen but Naito/Tanahashi is in my top five all time as well. That shit was brilliant. That match gave me hope that maybe storytelling isn't dead in this great business. I do really think NJPW is offering a bit of a renaissance in pro wrestling on the in-ring storytelling front. It thrived in ROH during the glory years, but over here neither WWE nor TNA ever seemed to get the message about how it could work. NJPW certainly isn't perfect, but the ability of the storylines to transcend promos and be told 90% in the ring is, I think, a huge part of why it's appealing to so many foreign fans who aren't fluent in Japanese.
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