|
Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Sept 23, 2016 16:36:33 GMT -5
A hell of a lot of it is this, most people make exceptions for their favourites. Actors do terrible things, can still make big movies people watch, sports starts can still get into good teams and people buy their merch and root for them. Look at Dusty Rhodes - huge backstage politician, yet gets a free pass. I think Dusty gets a pass as his worst excesses were before most people's time.
|
|
zappa
Trap-Jaw
Posts: 311
|
Post by zappa on Sept 23, 2016 16:44:07 GMT -5
Triple H didn't get over to the main event world title level till Mick Foley nearly killed himself to put him over at the start of 2000. HHH was a joke champion in 1999 he wasn't over at all.
|
|
|
Post by devondragon on Sept 23, 2016 16:49:08 GMT -5
Wasn't Triple H (onscreen) still with Chyna when he won the title? I seem to remember her celebrating his win.
|
|
|
Post by quackyquack1 on Sept 23, 2016 17:08:09 GMT -5
Triple H didn't get over to the main event world title level till Mick Foley nearly killed himself to put him over at the start of 2000. HHH was a joke champion in 1999 he wasn't over at all. I wouldn't necessarily say he was a joke champion in 99, he had a strong performance at No Mercy and got somewhat more over when reuniting with DX. Stephanie turning and joining up with him was what propelled him to where he is today though, no denying that. Looking back on it, I think it was right for Triple H not to go over Austin and to have Mankind be the transitional champion that lost to Triple H instead. Having re-watched the episodes of Raw heading into SummerSlam, I was instantly reverted back to my ten year old self and was reminded why Triple H had no business beating Austin at that point. Triple H went from beating The Rock at Fully Loaded to going on a jobbing spree heading into SummerSlam. Two weeks in a row, he jobbed to Chyna. Yeah, what a way to build up a Heel. Now, how could Triple H (who jobbed to Chyna two weeks in a row heading into SummerSlam) be viewed as a legitimate threat to Stone Cold whose character is the baddest motherf***er walking the earth? At that point they already decided to do the triple threat match, obviously if it wasn't for Jesse Ventura they wouldn't have gone this route in the first place.
|
|
ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
GIFs | Shitposts | Fun
Posts: 24,749
|
Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Sept 23, 2016 17:19:24 GMT -5
Except that's not what happened? Austin was going to drop the belt to HHH but the match was in Minnesota with Jesse Ventura as guest referee. Since Ventura was the Governor of Minnesota at the time,he didn't want to be seen raising the hand of a heel. So Foley won it only to drop it to HHH the next night. It was Ventura's demand , not Austin's.
|
|
ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
GIFs | Shitposts | Fun
Posts: 24,749
|
Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Sept 23, 2016 17:21:30 GMT -5
For those that don't know at Summerslam 1999 Triple H was due to go over Austin and win the belt. Plans were all set up for it then Austin said No. So Foley won it only to drop it the next night on Raw to Trips. While the Rock is back in the mid card with Billy Gunn ?! Now Trips ( deservedly) gets roasted for his political games and the Reign of terror but Austin seems to get let off for this blatant politicking. Although this sounds harsh but him taking time out for his neck injury actually worked out for the better for the company as the Rock became the Top guy and as big as Austin as one of the top draws off all time while Trips became the top Heel and won Wrestler of the year. Yet even so they couldn't have know that the time so are fans hypocritical with giving Austin an easy ride on this ? A million times, this. I don't need to say that Austin figuratively got away with murder as he literally got away with assault and battery. Not just once either. The "what" chants are awful. In his prime, Austin put fewer people over than Triple Haitch. He realizes pro wrestling is scripted, yet took his ball and went home instead of losing to Brock Lesnar at RAW. Incidentally, in a "real" fight, not even Mama Austin thinks he could win. He was an awesome performer from a little before mania 12 until a year or so after 14. The rest of his work was not top shelf. If Benoit can't get a mention for his extracurricular activities, I don't know why Austin keeps getting trotted out there. Benoit. Murdered. His. Wife. AND. Kid. Period. Full Stop. The two aren't in the same code, on the same planet or even occupying the same universe. f*** outta here with that bullshit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 17:30:16 GMT -5
A million times, this. I don't need to say that Austin figuratively got away with murder as he literally got away with assault and battery. Not just once either. The "what" chants are awful. In his prime, Austin put fewer people over than Triple Haitch. He realizes pro wrestling is scripted, yet took his ball and went home instead of losing to Brock Lesnar at RAW. Incidentally, in a "real" fight, not even Mama Austin thinks he could win. He was an awesome performer from a little before mania 12 until a year or so after 14. The rest of his work was not top shelf. If Benoit can't get a mention for his extracurricular activities, I don't know why Austin keeps getting trotted out there. Benoit. Murdered. His. Wife. AND. Kid. Period. Full Stop. The two aren't in the same code, on the same planet or even occupying the same universe. f*** outta here with that bullshit. Seriously, what Austin did was awful but what Benoit did was an entirely different level of evil. To answer the question I think there's a decent amount of bias that goes into who does and doesn't get flack for things like backstage politics because it's usually pretty impossible to verify. Therefore if I like them they only played politics for the right reason and if I don't they're a piece of shit that ruined careers.
|
|
|
Post by corndog on Sept 23, 2016 18:10:25 GMT -5
Look at Dusty Rhodes - huge backstage politician, yet gets a free pass. I think Dusty gets a pass as his worst excesses were before most people's time. I was unaware of it other than the fact that he booked himself at top. But man, after watching a Ronnie Garvin shoot where he talks about Dusty and then refers to Ricky Morton saying the exact same thing(which he did), Dusty played some dirty ball when he was booking in Georgia.
|
|
|
Post by taker1990 on Sept 23, 2016 18:10:32 GMT -5
A million times, this. I don't need to say that Austin figuratively got away with murder as he literally got away with assault and battery. Not just once either. The "what" chants are awful. In his prime, Austin put fewer people over than Triple Haitch. He realizes pro wrestling is scripted, yet took his ball and went home instead of losing to Brock Lesnar at RAW. Incidentally, in a "real" fight, not even Mama Austin thinks he could win. He was an awesome performer from a little before mania 12 until a year or so after 14. The rest of his work was not top shelf. If Benoit can't get a mention for his extracurricular activities, I don't know why Austin keeps getting trotted out there. Benoit. Murdered. His. Wife. AND. Kid. Period. Full Stop. The two aren't in the same code, on the same planet or even occupying the same universe. f*** outta here with that bullshit. I'm worried certain Benoit defenders are gonna attempt the murders as a tribute to their hero.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 18:19:40 GMT -5
....bro.
|
|
|
Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Sept 23, 2016 18:22:50 GMT -5
Well, this thread's turned into a shit show.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Pigwell on Sept 23, 2016 18:23:13 GMT -5
Benoit. Murdered. His. Wife. AND. Kid. Period. Full Stop. The two aren't in the same code, on the same planet or even occupying the same universe. f*** outta here with that bullshit. I'm worried certain Benoit defenders are gonna attempt the murders as a tribute to their hero. Holy crap let's not go around predicting people are going to murder their families. Everyone, drop this line of discussion and go back to the OP.
|
|
canal
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,173
|
Post by canal on Sept 24, 2016 2:27:15 GMT -5
If Austin had married Stephanie and was still main eventing shows whenever he pleased now, there might be some heat around him.
|
|
Emmet Russell
King Koopa
Quieter
The best wrestler on earth.
Posts: 12,526
|
Post by Emmet Russell on Sept 24, 2016 2:39:22 GMT -5
Hey, This seems like a great thread, with a topic I want to discuss! *reads the last page*
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2016 9:51:56 GMT -5
I have more of an issue with Austin beating Kane clean a day after he won the title and beating Big Show clean pretty early in his WWE career. Both were booked and seen as unstoppable monsters yet Austin beat them without much trouble, if I'm remembering correctly. Before this thread winds up locked due to the things that have been said, I always believed that the reason why Kane beat Austin was because they booked themselves into a corner with typical Attitude Era stupidity. For starters, Kane stated that if he lost, he would set himself on fire, and I think that they wouldn't actually have followed through on one of their own talents getting immolated. Secondly, they pretty much made it impossible for Kane to look like he was bleeding because in addition to the mask, his body was pretty much covered from neck to toe. I'm more than certain that they only had Kane win to relieve that headache, because Austin would get it back the next night. A lousy drawing, overrated, over pushed, overhyped upper midcard DUD like Triple H Triple H was chosen by Meltzer as the biggest box office draw of the decade (2000-2009)Triple H from 2000 to 2002 was arguably one of the biggest draws for the promotion, largely due to his feuds with the Rock, Foley, Austin, and HBK. But, once you got to the Reign of Terror, things started to suck real bad. 2004 itself was a godawful year for the promotion, as they barely had 3,000 people attend a PPV (which WAS Taboo Tuesday, I'll point that out, but still...) and featured box office flops in JBL & Chris Benoit. Maybe 2006 & 2009 when they did the DX stuff, possibly, but I dunno. But, yeah, "drawing power" is very vague.
|
|
|
Post by Amazing Kitsune on Sept 24, 2016 10:12:48 GMT -5
Fans were happier with the state of the business when Austin did it. Triple H did it (The Reign of Terror) during one of their down times.
Nobody cares what you do wrong as long as it gets results.
|
|
lws
ALF
No. It's the children who are wrong.
Posts: 1,032
|
Post by lws on Sept 24, 2016 10:24:13 GMT -5
This topic went bonkers, but the real answer is that whenever Austin did it, it was generally the right move and it made total sense. Triple H played politics to put himself over, as did Nash, HBK, Hogan, etc, etc. Austin played politics to call Vince on his bullshit.
Jobbing to Brock on a random Raw was a dumb idea, and the reasons why should be obvious.
If Triple H definitively beat Austin in the triple threat match, there's no cause for rematches (plus, that one was all Ventura).
The Kane thing wasn't Austin's idea in the first place, either, but the goal was to pop a huge rating on Raw, and that worked, too.
The Big Show burial, also not Austin's idea, but whatever, things turned out fine for The Showster.
Who gives a f*** about Jeff Jarrett.
And what else is there? I'm not trying to be all Austin marky and defend him. He did some terrible things in his personal life after WWE, and maybe even during his time on top, too. His politics were all logical business moves, though, and that's why no one calls him out on it.
|
|
|
Post by Big Bad Kahuna on Sept 24, 2016 10:31:04 GMT -5
Grand picture: ALL top guys in the height of the AE (98-01) played backstage politics BIGTIME
Austin refused feuds with Jarrett and even Billy Gunn (who used to be a buddy of his), bitched about the Owen Summerslam 97 incident for a long time, heavily politicked against HHH getting the title from him in 99 (Summerslam or another point)
Rock buried guys on the mic constantly. was his way of "getting heat back" since he lost more big matches than HHH or Austin
HHH's stuff is well-documented as well
Taker didn't like his Ministry leader gimmick, and wanted to return as a biker guy in 2000 (to mixed results/popularity decline)
it was a sharktank, all of them will tell you the same
Foley, Jericho and Angle were teamplayers, which hurt them longterm
|
|
|
Post by Big Bad Kahuna on Sept 24, 2016 10:32:29 GMT -5
The Big Show burial, also not Austin's idea, but whatever, things turned out fine for The Showster.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2016 12:17:48 GMT -5
50-50 booking should never be applied when you have one talent who is more over and a bigger ratings draw then everybody else. Playing politics or not, Austin was doing a better job booking himself then creative.
Now in the case of Triple H during the reign of terror, him playing politics hurt the product more and only benefited himself. Now every top guy ever has played politics to keep there spots. Triple H is one of the more famous examples for how blatant it was and how much harm did it for the product creatively speaking.
|
|