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Post by Prince Petty on Aug 5, 2016 13:27:08 GMT -5
I'd be more curious to see what would've happened in the WWF should Shawn jave gone instead of HBK after SS 97. I think Bret would've still been fazed out, maybe taking HBK's place at WM14? I think that would've been the most logical direction with Austin finally beating Bret for the WWF title at WM14, which I believe Bret would've been more than happy to do if things had turned out differently. Yeah. I don't think, in these circumstances, it would have been as seismic a shift. Bret wouldn't have disappeared overnight like Shawn did. He'd still have been a major player in the WWF for at least a little while, but he'd have been happy letting Austin take the ball and run. Meanwhile, Shawn in WCW would have been a complete and utter trainwreck. Nash would have abandoned him in no time at all, once he saw what a liability he was, Hall might have done the same. Hogan would probably have got him fired within a year or two.
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Post by avenger on Aug 5, 2016 13:57:54 GMT -5
From the moment he threw Jannetty through the Barber Shop window to Wrestlemania XIV, Shawn rarely jobbed. If someone pinned him, he pinned them back. The only exceptions were Austin at WM XIV and (I think) Tatanka at a house show. Whether that's because he came through in an era where so many refused to job, Vince protecting him as an uppercard heel in the days of jobber squashes on TV, or Shawn's ego, or a combination on the three is something we'll probably never know. But he only tended to job when losing titles (Jannetty, Sid) or at Wrestlemania (Diesel), and even then if he could avoid it, he did (losing his smile rather than lose to Bret at WM XIII, the fake match with HHH for the Euro title, he vacated the title, or was stripped in two of his three I-C reigns, and all three of his pre-98 tag reigns).
If he'd joined WCW, the NWO/WCW war was already in full effect. If he was on the NWO side, he'd have been the smaller guy that guys had to get through to face Hogan/Nash and even Hall. On the WCW side, he'd be competing with Sting, DDP, Luger and Flair to be number one. No way he'd have been as protected. Nash was a top player, Hall was always happy to be the number two/three face/heel, rather than the top one. Shawn wouldn't have handled it.
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Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
Posts: 5,570
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Aug 5, 2016 16:01:01 GMT -5
From the moment he "threw" Jannetty through the Barber Shop window. Threw? Did you borrow Monsoon's blue bifocals when you watched that episode? Where you busy eating bananas? Did you have a faulty television monitor?
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
Posts: 17,238
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Post by Renslayer on Aug 5, 2016 18:40:54 GMT -5
Michaels in WCW would've been a disaster. And I don't even think we'd get great matches out of him because an unmotivated HBK will stink the joint up and sandbag potentially good matches
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Bub (BLM)
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advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Aug 5, 2016 18:58:10 GMT -5
"They wouldn't let you be yourself down there." Umm...
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Post by benstudd on Aug 6, 2016 17:58:47 GMT -5
The whole "I was too much of a WWF guy to go to WCW", give me a break, Bret was even more of a WWF guy and he left.
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Shai
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Shai on Aug 6, 2016 18:05:10 GMT -5
The whole "I was too much of a WWF guy to go to WCW", give me a break, Bret was even more of a WWF guy and he left. But Bret absolutely HATED Vince and WWF by the end so is that a really good comparison?
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Aug 6, 2016 18:19:56 GMT -5
The whole "I was too much of a WWF guy to go to WCW", give me a break, Bret was even more of a WWF guy and he left. Bret didn't want to leave, he struck a long term contract with the WWF which they backed out of and gave him control of his departure, then backed out of that too. Shawn though, he was actively trying to get himself fired he was that much of a WWE guy. After all those all those years the WWF spent building him up at the expense of everyone else on the roster, giving him everything he asked for, he wanted to pack up and go let WCW reap the benefits.
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Post by benstudd on Aug 6, 2016 18:19:56 GMT -5
The whole "I was too much of a WWF guy to go to WCW", give me a break, Bret was even more of a WWF guy and he left. But Bret absolutely HATED Vince and WWF by the end so is that a really good comparison? But Shawn wanted to leave. The reason he didn't I think was cause he was scared or worried about what would happen in WCW. And he was right. But I don't think it's cause he was such a WWF guy. I think HBK would have gone to WCW if they had stayed in business. Cause his friends were there and at the time WCW were always more open to partimers.
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Post by taker1990 on Aug 6, 2016 19:02:02 GMT -5
Bischoff may or may not have messed it up.
Either way in the long run i'm glad it worked out the way it did.
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Post by -Lithium- on Aug 6, 2016 19:12:16 GMT -5
If Bret and HBK went in 96, WWF might be done for.
By late 97, it doesn't matter. WCW had no chance by the start of 1998. It was just a matter of time...
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Post by Sir Woodrow on Aug 7, 2016 0:52:34 GMT -5
"1-2-3 He's done! Goldberg adds another victim to his long list!"
"What was Shawn thinking Schiavone? If Hollywood couldn't stop him what made him think he could?"
"Agreed Brain, what a 'heartbreaking' turn of events"
Something like this
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Mozenrath
FANatic
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 7, 2016 0:54:19 GMT -5
I feel like he would have probably had the US title or something, but that'd be the height of things.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Aug 7, 2016 1:29:05 GMT -5
I'd be interested in the butterfly effect as it pertains to Triple H. Depending on when Michaels leaves, would he have consolidated his own backstage pull enough to be able to protect his interests without Michaels's help? If not, does he get depushed completely or even released to go to WCW WITH Michaels? This would have affected the Stephanie thing, basically any post-Attitude Era WWE product, NXT, everything.
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Post by slaughterama on Aug 7, 2016 2:28:26 GMT -5
IMO, if Shawn left after SS and Bret stayed, WWE may have died as the Mr. McMahon character would not (most likely) gone on to become what it was, and Austin wouldn't have had that character to feed off of. Take away those 2 things, and I doubt WWE lasts another 2 years.
Other side, maybe Shawn goes to WCW, and a bunch of the younger and underutilized talent realizes they'll never get a fair shot in WCW and goes to WWF which could have focused on having the best, young in-ring talent.
Still, if Shawn leaves and there's no Montreal, the WWF probably doesn't survive. Montreal set up way too many things for WWF's success.
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Post by alexwrightspackage on Aug 7, 2016 3:35:10 GMT -5
If he were to debut after Starrcade 97, there may have been some potential story in there of Hall and Nash breaking off from Hogan to have HBK join them, reforming the Wolfpac.
Now whether that would've worked in the back, well, the potential pitfalls have been documented in this thread, and of course, the story would need to have been pulled off by competent writersn sooooooo.
Regardless, point being...if Bret Hart in nWo 2000 was any sort of metric, Shawn would at least have fit in better in a leader role.
Shawn was better off staying in the WWF, but I'm sure in some parallel universe where WCW wasn't incompetent and Shawn was clean, there could've been something compelling.
Hell, I'd've been happy if he stayed a year just to feud with younger Sting or Flair then.
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Post by alexwrightspackage on Aug 7, 2016 3:39:25 GMT -5
IMO, if Shawn left after SS and Bret stayed, WWE may have died as the Mr. McMahon character would not (most likely) gone on to become what it was, and Austin wouldn't have had that character to feed off of. Take away those 2 things, and I doubt WWE lasts another 2 years. Other side, maybe Shawn goes to WCW, and a bunch of the younger and underutilized talent realizes they'll never get a fair shot in WCW and goes to WWF which could have focused on having the best, young in-ring talent. Still, if Shawn leaves and there's no Montreal, the WWF probably doesn't survive. Montreal set up way too many things for WWF's success. Yeah, right?! Montreal has been examined from pretty much every angle and potential at this point, and from what I've seen, pretty much every conclusion is that this needed to happen for the WWF to survive. Hell, I'd label HBK's '98 injury a blessing for WWF as well, letting them get rid of two veterans in a six month span to allow new stars to shine and win the war. Crazy, and amazing. Talk about fumbling toward success. (As much as it still sucks Bret got exiled and HBK got crippled)
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Aug 7, 2016 5:11:49 GMT -5
IMO, if Shawn left after SS and Bret stayed, WWE may have died as the Mr. McMahon character would not (most likely) gone on to become what it was, and Austin wouldn't have had that character to feed off of. Take away those 2 things, and I doubt WWE lasts another 2 years. Other side, maybe Shawn goes to WCW, and a bunch of the younger and underutilized talent realizes they'll never get a fair shot in WCW and goes to WWF which could have focused on having the best, young in-ring talent. Still, if Shawn leaves and there's no Montreal, the WWF probably doesn't survive. Montreal set up way too many things for WWF's success. I disagree, they had already set up that the brass didn't like Austin, and he didn't give a shit. All they would have had to do was had Vince go to Bret and say that he's the chosen champion, he's the right one to hold the title, and they're set. You would have had Austin vs Bret (a guy he never beat) and Vince, and Vince brings in Tyson to make sure Austin doesn't win. Bret would have lost, taken a couple of months off, returned for the rematch at SummerSlam where he refuses Vince's help, and Austin and Bret form an uneasy alliance to go against Vince, The Brothers of Destruction, Foley (until he was screwed and joined Austin and Bret), The Rock, and The Corporation. Owen or Bulldog would have went face to help out Bret, Austin, and Foley. And Shawn wasn't too much of a WWE guy to go to WCW, Taker was because he never thought about leaving. Shawn kept trying to get Vince to let him leave, that's not what Taker did.
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Post by celtics543 on Aug 7, 2016 9:25:28 GMT -5
I think the butterfly effect to this may have worked better for everyone not named Shawn Michaels. -Bret stays in the WWF, puts Austin over for the title at Wrestlemania 14, gets to stick around the main event with the Hart Foundation for a while, and never gets the career ending kick to the head from Goldberg. -Owen Hart, because Bret is still around and he's still doing the Hart Foundation thing never gets stuck as the Blue Blazer and doesn't die. -Bulldog never falls on the Warriors trap door, never gets hooked on pain pills, and maybe is still alive to help Harry get over in the WWE. -HHH's story works out pretty much the same he just starts the "new DX" the night after Survivor Series instead of Wrestlemania. -Montreal never happens but Vince still ends up as the ultimate heel by trying to screw over Steve Austin as much as possible. Most of the heat he got was from hurting Austin, not screwing Bret.
You could even argue that in WCW Shawn would've met his future wife earlier and gotten clean earlier. Odds are though that it would've been a huge disaster. One thing is for certain, Shawn wouldn't be getting put over as the greatest star of all time by the WWE in dvd's right now if he had jumped.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Aug 7, 2016 9:29:11 GMT -5
-HHH's story works out pretty much the same he just starts the "new DX" the night after Survivor Series instead of Wrestlemania. I agree with that, although I think it still happens after Mania. I think Vince would have him eat shit for awhile, and when he did what he was told without bitching about it, he would have gotten Vince's respect and the respect of everybody else. His career probably would have worked out the same, except he would be on better terms with guys like The Rock, because he wasn't hanging around Shawn as much, so he opened himself up more to the locker room.
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