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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Nov 1, 2016 8:33:03 GMT -5
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
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Post by saintpat on Nov 1, 2016 8:49:35 GMT -5
This thing clearly was a power grab by Billy C to stave off Dixie's sale to Anthem/Aroluxe. He saw it coming, realized his position was being squeezed out and tried to get the court to give him the reins so he could block the sale and somehow end up with control himself.
It was a failed coup de tat. It's over now. He'll either take his money (likely) or his minority stake (probably not as he would have no power) and move on.
The idea that Billy is going to start his own promotion is laughable -- I mean, he can run a once-a-month armory show indie if that's his dream, but TV and such ain't happening (he tried that before and couldn't interest WGN or anyone else in televising his promotion); but no way can he launch something and find a niche on par with TNA, ROH or any other televised promotion. Probably doesn't have nor can put together an infrastructure to compete with JJ's Global as far as putting on shows in wide-ranging areas (like JJ does with baseball minor league venues).
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Nov 1, 2016 8:50:13 GMT -5
Not to mention as stated earlier that it is on public record that TNA is insolvent. No, it's not. Read the story on The Tennesseean website -- the local newspaper that covered the trial -- not just the tweets. The judge ruled that the term "insolvent" is ambiguous: in short, it has no clear meaning legally, at least in Tennessee. Which is another naive (to put it kindly) error on Billy's part, to have terms of a contract rely on a term that can't be legally established in court, rather than use specific language which could have been proved. As far as "he proved Dixie lied" post, he certainly alleged it. She probably did. And the fact that her company has tanked (whether legally solvent or not) will certainly keep other investors and suitors away, but it didn't keep Billy from wanting the company, nor Aroluxe nor the Fight Network folks. I can't recall what she said at any point about talks with WWE, but I'd have to see exact wording AND the documents about whatever talks took place to see if it was an outright lie -- in business, there are TONS of situations that come up where one side (in this case possibly WWE) asks the other to not reveal talks or negotiations, and no business person would look at someone doing that as a "LAIR who can't be trusted to do business." In fact, they would understand that such things are part of business. If you really think that people or companies won't do business with those who "lie" sometimes -- by not being forthcoming about financial facts, painting a rosy picture when in fact things are a real mess, but not revealing to three or four different parties that they're negotiating with all of them secretly to choose the best deal -- then you have a lot to learn about business. Ask yourself this: Do you really think Billy believed Dixie was an honest person and that all those people not getting paid, the company moving its offices to a junkyard, the repeated "OMG are they really going to pull off their tapings this time" weren't an indication of serious financial difficulties? That she said, "Honest, Sug, we've got the money, those people who say they aren't getting paid are just being silly" and he bought it? Yet Billy was quite willing to enter this quagmire. So the idea that something has changed and that now, for the first time ever, we now TNA really was in financial trouble, is kind of a stretch. I mean, haven't these multiple-times-a-year threads about the Impending Death of TNA given us a pretty good clue about the reality of the situation? I did read the article, and it never said that it had no legal meaning. In fact, insolvency very much does have a legal meaning and it is a major factor in bankruptcy proceedings. The situation is difficult in this specific one because the company is trying to conflate having offers with having money, and all she said was that in this case it's ambiguous as to whether or not they are. We get it, he made the mistake of not having a Tennessee-based lawyer write up the contracts and make sure that something very specific to Tennessee law didn't trip him up. It's not exactly an uncommon mistake. He did more than allege that Dixie lied to him, he also had internal communications pretty clearly outlining how they treated him as president, which is the lying that I was referring to, not the WWE thing. Those lies were more importantly exposed to the locker room, who don't give a shit about "just business" when their jobs were on the line. The damage isn't "people lie" it's "TNA will lie to investors, creditors, and its own management staff" in a way that ensures nobody would want to give them money. I don't think anyone in their right mind would want to give money to a company that lies about its debts and promises a senior secured loan while omitting that there's three other people in line with more senior debt waiting to collect. That is in no way business that people will want to conduct. LIke I've said before to the same questions you asked, Billy was a man on the inside to a degree. He knew things were rough, he knew people weren't getting paid, and he wanted to help keep the show running. That's why he gave the money. He knew they were in rough shape. What he couldn't possibly have known, as the dude writing the show, was the same shit we didn't know, Meltzer didn't know, Johnson didn't know. That they were being sued for six figures by their old production company that left before he came in. That they owed money on business accounts from before he came in. That they owed money from 2005 to their old DVD distribution company. That the company wasn't paying taxes. You're dismissively overlooking the fact that, this is the first time we do know in concrete, numerical terms just how bad TNA is. He wouldn't have needed to loan money to TNA if it wasn't clearly in a bad place and needed those funds to actually run the taping. Nobody is arguing against that. But there would only have been a short handful of people who knew about the seven figures of debt waiting off to the side, and they didn't mention to Corgan that it was the case, and by what's been shown, they seem to have done so largely so they could keep going on his dime for a little while. |
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Post by héad.casé on Nov 1, 2016 9:01:57 GMT -5
When TNA were asked to comment on losing the Challenge deal, they blamed it on spoilers. No lie. Said that they know UK fans want to watch Impact same time/day it airs in the States and hope to make that or air as it close to US air date as they possibly can with another channel.
I haven't looked on any TNA social media or anything lately but do fans here complain about spoilers that much? It's like three days between the US airing and UK airing.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Nov 1, 2016 9:27:12 GMT -5
No, it's not. Read the story on The Tennesseean website -- the local newspaper that covered the trial -- not just the tweets. The judge ruled that the term "insolvent" is ambiguous: in short, it has no clear meaning legally, at least in Tennessee. Which is another naive (to put it kindly) error on Billy's part, to have terms of a contract rely on a term that can't be legally established in court, rather than use specific language which could have been proved. As far as "he proved Dixie lied" post, he certainly alleged it. She probably did. And the fact that her company has tanked (whether legally solvent or not) will certainly keep other investors and suitors away, but it didn't keep Billy from wanting the company, nor Aroluxe nor the Fight Network folks. I can't recall what she said at any point about talks with WWE, but I'd have to see exact wording AND the documents about whatever talks took place to see if it was an outright lie -- in business, there are TONS of situations that come up where one side (in this case possibly WWE) asks the other to not reveal talks or negotiations, and no business person would look at someone doing that as a "LAIR who can't be trusted to do business." In fact, they would understand that such things are part of business. If you really think that people or companies won't do business with those who "lie" sometimes -- by not being forthcoming about financial facts, painting a rosy picture when in fact things are a real mess, but not revealing to three or four different parties that they're negotiating with all of them secretly to choose the best deal -- then you have a lot to learn about business. Ask yourself this: Do you really think Billy believed Dixie was an honest person and that all those people not getting paid, the company moving its offices to a junkyard, the repeated "OMG are they really going to pull off their tapings this time" weren't an indication of serious financial difficulties? That she said, "Honest, Sug, we've got the money, those people who say they aren't getting paid are just being silly" and he bought it? Yet Billy was quite willing to enter this quagmire. So the idea that something has changed and that now, for the first time ever, we now TNA really was in financial trouble, is kind of a stretch. I mean, haven't these multiple-times-a-year threads about the Impending Death of TNA given us a pretty good clue about the reality of the situation? I did read the article, and it never said that it had no legal meaning. In fact, insolvency very much does have a legal meaning and it is a major factor in bankruptcy proceedings. The situation is difficult in this specific one because the company is trying to conflate having offers with having money, and all she said was that in this case it's ambiguous as to whether or not they are. We get it, he made the mistake of not having a Tennessee-based lawyer write up the contracts and make sure that something very specific to Tennessee law didn't trip him up. It's not exactly an uncommon mistake. He did more than allege that Dixie lied to him, he also had internal communications pretty clearly outlining how they treated him as president, which is the lying that I was referring to, not the WWE thing. Those lies were more importantly exposed to the locker room, who don't give a shit about "just business" when their jobs were on the line. The damage isn't "people lie" it's "TNA will lie to investors, creditors, and its own management staff" in a way that ensures nobody would want to give them money. I don't think anyone in their right mind would want to give money to a company that lies about its debts and promises a senior secured loan while omitting that there's three other people in line with more senior debt waiting to collect. That is in no way business that people will want to conduct. LIke I've said before to the same questions you asked, Billy was a man on the inside to a degree. He knew things were rough, he knew people weren't getting paid, and he wanted to help keep the show running. That's why he gave the money. He knew they were in rough shape. What he couldn't possibly have known, as the dude writing the show, was the same shit we didn't know, Meltzer didn't know, Johnson didn't know. That they were being sued for six figures by their old production company that left before he came in. That they owed money on business accounts from before he came in. That they owed money from 2005 to their old DVD distribution company. That the company wasn't paying taxes. You're dismissively overlooking the fact that, this is the first time we do know in concrete, numerical terms just how bad TNA is. He wouldn't have needed to loan money to TNA if it wasn't clearly in a bad place and needed those funds to actually run the taping. Nobody is arguing against that. But there would only have been a short handful of people who knew about the seven figures of debt waiting off to the side, and they didn't mention to Corgan that it was the case, and by what's been shown, they seem to have done so largely so they could keep going on his dime for a little while. The judge ruled that the "operative text 'becomes insolvent' is ambiguous when applied to the facts on record." That's not the judge putting it on record that the company is insolvent. You argue that the "lies" by Dixie/TNA "ensures that nobody would want to give them money." But Billy was in court asking for control of this company. Anthem/Aroluxe are "giving them money" in the form of buying controlling interest in the company. Lawsuits are public record. TNA couldn't hide those attempts to sue them that you mentioned. I said many times in this thread that Billy's lack of diligence is why he's a "victim" -- he could have withheld any monies until doing a thorough review of TNA's books and discovered any and all debts the company had incurred. Give me some specifics on the lies TNA made -- not Billy's allegations, but actual likes where it is established that TNA said "We don't owe any money" when in fact they did or something like that. Billy's ownership share if insolvency were proven was still capped had the loan/takeover agreement been legal in Tennessee -- he ASKED for 92 percent or whatever from the judge but he never produced anything that said he would RECEIVE that percentage for his loan. A lot of what looks like "dirty pool" to the IWC is just the world of business. It's not always pretty, it's not for sissies (or pumpkins). But if there were fraud that could be proven then there would be a criminal investigation and charges filed. Which hasn't happened, and there's no reason to believe it will happen. And for the "boys in the locker room" now being in some different situation that they have been enlightened as to TNA's evil ways and would never work for such a company -- THEY SIGNED ON WITH A COMPANY WITH A PROVEN TRACK RECORD OF NOT PAYING TALENT. What did they expect? Yes, they should be paid, and with the sale to Anthem, I assume they will be paid (and I'm sure they assume this also). But that's what the worker bees care about, getting paid. And if they walked into a company that has FOR YEARS been known to not do this, how has Billy's failed lawsuit changed anything from their point of view? I'm betting that there will be another taping coming up under Anthem/Aroluxe leadership, and that actual wrestlers will show up to work. And so will a crew to set up the ring. And a venue will rent them use of a building in which to host the tapings. And POP will still televise it. So if I am right on the above, exactly who is it that will never do business with TNA again because they "found out TNA lies" in Billy's failed lawsuit? |
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Post by xCompackx on Nov 1, 2016 9:28:51 GMT -5
When TNA were asked to comment on losing the Challenge deal, they blamed it on spoilers. No lie. Said that they know UK fans want to watch Impact same time/day it airs in the States and hope to make that or air as it close to US air date as they possibly can with another channel. I haven't looked on any TNA social media or anything lately but do fans here complain about spoilers that much? It's like three days between the US airing and UK airing. I wouldn't imagine anyone cares about spoilers by the time these episodes air; Impact is filmed so far in advance anyway that the spoilers are out there long before it even airs in the US, nevermind the UK. |
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Post by Ryushinku on Nov 1, 2016 9:29:20 GMT -5
They'll breach that deal by not making the focus of the show be on Great Power Uti. Pfff as if the Great Power Uti wants to be associated with such a toxic brand. I'm not sure they can meet his butter or bread demands. |
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Andy Martin
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Andy Martin on Nov 1, 2016 9:45:55 GMT -5
Since Anthem will aparently be running things since they're gonna put the most money I hope they realize that they now own a dead and toxic brand. Even if they change everything they're still like 3 years away from being profitable. On the plus side, free maple syrup and world champ Wai Ting. TNA president John Pollock, Robin Black as a colour commentator... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 10:36:34 GMT -5
So, do we make another thread for the supplement lawsuits or have to cool our jets for a while?
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 1, 2016 11:18:07 GMT -5
So, do we make another thread for the supplement lawsuits or have to cool our jets for a while? Prob have to sit back and wait until it happens. |
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Gecko
Grimlock
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Post by Gecko on Nov 1, 2016 11:19:54 GMT -5
Here you go, Chiral .  I might get round to doing the long version at some point, but it's a lot more work so I don't know if or when it will happen. I notice that while Challenge wished them all the best, they didn't add "in their future endeavours." Even Challenge don't believe they'll be around for long  I wonder if we'll get any other wrestling to replace it? |
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
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Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,372
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Post by Push R Truth on Nov 1, 2016 11:24:12 GMT -5
That GIF is amazing!!
I wonder... would it be amazing +1 if the "& Ever" was written in "dripping blood" and the graphic held on that an extra second before the fade to black? Or is the simplicity in the original GIF a good portion of it's charm?
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ayumidah
Patti Mayonnaise
DOOM TIME!!!!!
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Post by ayumidah on Nov 1, 2016 11:36:26 GMT -5
That's so sad. Heh.
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lionheart21
Patti Mayonnaise
Once did a thing...
Posts: 31,793 
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Post by lionheart21 on Nov 1, 2016 11:42:12 GMT -5
Man, whoever runs the Twitter page (Josh, I imagine) can't take a joke. |
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Post by docwallace on Nov 1, 2016 11:47:09 GMT -5
I notice that while Challenge wished them all the best, they didn't add "in their future endeavours." Even Challenge don't believe they'll be around for long I wonder if we'll get any other wrestling to replace it? Well, the World of Sport ITV pilot tapes tonight, so that's probably ITV4 sorted for the future if it does well. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Nov 1, 2016 11:49:36 GMT -5
Man, whoever runs the Twitter page (Josh, I imagine) can't take a joke. It's Josh and no he can't. |
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
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Post by Hawk Hart on Nov 1, 2016 11:57:39 GMT -5
On the plus side, free maple syrup and world champ Wai Ting. TNA president John Pollock, Robin Black as a colour commentator... Dude. No. Brother Nate Milton would be in charge of TNA. |
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Post by benstudd on Nov 1, 2016 12:01:06 GMT -5
I keep hearing about Aoflux and Fight Network buying TNA and Dixie being a minority owner but it's hasn't been made official, right? So Dixie is still in charge.
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Post by J Lee O'Brien on Nov 1, 2016 12:04:55 GMT -5
Man, whoever runs the Twitter page (Josh, I imagine) can't take a joke. It's Josh and no he can't. So petty... |
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Post by wwotbh on Nov 1, 2016 12:11:09 GMT -5
I feel like Dixie is preparing for THE sale, just as she intimated prior to the lawsuit. All employees should be waiting for the other shoe to drop.
I've seen it posited that Anthem is some kind of saviour a la Sinclair, the only problem with that is that Anthem is a blip in the TV world, where Sinclair owns a crapton of actual broadcast television affiliates. Anthem's biggest channel in the US is Pursuit, which doesn't even rank in the top 100 cable networks and as such can only be estimated to have an average viewership between 0 and 20k. It's unreasonable to expect them to set fire to millions of dollars for a return that isn't ever coming.
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Yes this is me...
