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Post by cabbageboy on Dec 20, 2016 19:02:22 GMT -5
If Styles is still upset about someone not hooking his leg years after the fact then he needs to get over it. No one really cares. Of all things it was his mopey poor man's Sting act in 2013 where he grew his hair out and became a more cynical character that finally got him to the point of clicking as a main event guy. Being TNA of course they let him go right as he was really peaking as a character and also a wrestler, letting NJPW and WWE reap the benefits.
There's a lot of revisionist history about RVD in TNA though. I'm a mega fan of the guy but I can also be objective. In 2010 he was largely quite good in TNA, but once they tried to kill him (literally!) with the Abyss/Janice angle, stripped him of the title, and did all that crap you could tell his will to fight was gone. From there it was the idiotic EV 2.0 mole angle, feuding with a bloated Matt Hardy, bad matches with Ken Anderson, Jerry Lynn costing him matches in the BFG Series, and doing nothing for most of 2012. The most notable stuff he did in 2012 was the silly Daniels feud where most of the amusement was Daniels calling him Bob Van Dam. I did think he made the X Title seem a bit more relevant but by early 2013 it was clear he was leaving so they didn't even do the logical RVD vs. Bully Ray cash in match (which I can only assume was the plan if RVD had stayed).
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Dec 20, 2016 19:06:48 GMT -5
He should have swept the leg.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Dec 20, 2016 19:46:46 GMT -5
Also forgot that his reign ended because they booked him too often.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 19:51:16 GMT -5
Also forgot that his reign ended because they booked him too often. My favorite part of that is his first match back was on the same damn show where they crowned a new champion, so therefore there was absolutely zero gained from stripping him of the belt. And I still don't get why they didn't just have him lose the match to Abyss that wrote him out in that case. Then there's at least some level of menace to Abyss when RVD gets the rematch and you could've easily had someone take the belt off Abyss in the meantime.
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Post by Thunderbolt on Dec 21, 2016 1:37:40 GMT -5
He should have swept the leg. Johnny
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Dec 21, 2016 2:29:40 GMT -5
Hey now AJ wasn't this goofy Flair clone until Hogan arrived. He was perfectly legit as a bonafide main eventer the way he was in late 2009. Style's hoodie robe was genuinely one of the most bush league looking things TNA's put to air, and I am well aware of all the connotations of that statement. It was also kinda patronizing when the Hogan era spoke of getting guys like Styles to "the next level" when long-time viewers had long had Styles intermittently sold to them as "Mr. TNA", "The Heart and Soul of TNA" and "The founding father of the X-division." That's before we even get to the fact that Styles was a 6-time X champ and a 5-time world champ. Like, I kinda get what they meant, but they'd repeatedly tried to give him personalities like a WWE-esque, top-line face or quasi-CM Punk, when he'd demonstrated he'd plenty of personality when left to his own devices. For example, I'd argue one can see the blueprints of AJ's current Smackdown run in his Christian Coalition/Angle Alliance goofy sidekick days. Granted, it was a strangely midcard position for TNA's golden boy, but there's that very same smarmy, semi-trollish pest that happens to be BitW present in '07 as the one that currently carries Smackdown on its shoulders. Bringing it back around to the the OP: I cannot understand how any long time follower of RVD, me included, can view his TNA run as anything other than a bitter disappointment. I once drank the kool-aid as to RVD being held down in WWE and when given carte-blanche elsewhere, we'd see all the promise of late-90s/early-00s manifest and taking full advantage of his national platform to prove everyone wrong. To the contrary, we got a massive sack of nothing.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Woo on Dec 21, 2016 4:28:26 GMT -5
Hey now AJ wasn't this goofy Flair clone until Hogan arrived. He was perfectly legit as a bonafide main eventer the way he was in late 2009. Style's hoodie robe was genuinely one of the most bush league looking things TNA's put to air, and I am well aware of all the connotations of that statement. It was also kinda patronizing when the Hogan era spoke of getting guys like Styles to "the next level" when long-time viewers had long had Styles intermittently sold to them as "Mr. TNA", "The Heart and Soul of TNA" and "The founding father of the X-division." That's before we even get to the fact that Styles was a 6-time X champ and a 5-time world champ. Like, I kinda get what they meant, but they'd repeatedly tried to give him personalities like a WWE-esque, top-line face or quasi-CM Punk, when he'd demonstrated he'd plenty of personality when left to his own devices. For example, I'd argue one can see the blueprints of AJ's current Smackdown run in his Christian Coalition/Angle Alliance goofy sidekick days. Granted, it was a strangely midcard position for TNA's golden boy, but there's that very same smarmy, semi-trollish pest that happens to be BitW present in '07 as the one that currently carries Smackdown on its shoulders. Bringing it back around to the the OP: I cannot understand how any long time follower of RVD, me included, can view his TNA run as anything other than a bitter disappointment. I once drank the kool-aid as to RVD being held down in WWE and when given carte-blanche elsewhere, we'd see all the promise of late-90s/early-00s manifest and taking full advantage of his national platform to prove everyone wrong. To the contrary, we got a massive sack of nothing. They gave him a robe with a hood? Wow. I used to love AJ's old hoodie he wore from early TNA days and I still often walk with my head down when wearing a hoodie and then throw the hood off, arms outstretched AJ Styles style randomly. AJ in TNA in TNA's eyes was always "nearly at that level", Dixie even said that when he was in NJPW. But for me whenever I get into a new promotion be in Shimmer, Lucha Underground or TNA seeing wrestlers I've never seen before is so exciting and AJ was already on the main event level for me from the first time I started watching in 2005.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Dec 21, 2016 4:46:57 GMT -5
Style's hoodie robe was genuinely one of the most bush league looking things TNA's put to air, and I am well aware of all the connotations of that statement. It was also kinda patronizing when the Hogan era spoke of getting guys like Styles to "the next level" when long-time viewers had long had Styles intermittently sold to them as "Mr. TNA", "The Heart and Soul of TNA" and "The founding father of the X-division." That's before we even get to the fact that Styles was a 6-time X champ and a 5-time world champ. Like, I kinda get what they meant, but they'd repeatedly tried to give him personalities like a WWE-esque, top-line face or quasi-CM Punk, when he'd demonstrated he'd plenty of personality when left to his own devices. For example, I'd argue one can see the blueprints of AJ's current Smackdown run in his Christian Coalition/Angle Alliance goofy sidekick days. Granted, it was a strangely midcard position for TNA's golden boy, but there's that very same smarmy, semi-trollish pest that happens to be BitW present in '07 as the one that currently carries Smackdown on its shoulders. Bringing it back around to the the OP: I cannot understand how any long time follower of RVD, me included, can view his TNA run as anything other than a bitter disappointment. I once drank the kool-aid as to RVD being held down in WWE and when given carte-blanche elsewhere, we'd see all the promise of late-90s/early-00s manifest and taking full advantage of his national platform to prove everyone wrong. To the contrary, we got a massive sack of nothing. They gave him a robe with a hood? Wow. I used to love AJ's old hoodie he wore from early TNA days and I still often walk with my head down when wearing a hoodie and then throw the hood off, arms outstretched AJ Styles style randomly. AJ in TNA in TNA's eyes was always "nearly at that level", Dixie even said that when he was in NJPW. But for me whenever I get into a new promotion be in Shimmer, Lucha Underground or TNA seeing wrestlers I've never seen before is so exciting and AJ was already on the main event level for me from the first time I started watching in 2005. A robe with a muthaf***in' hood.
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Post by 2 time pro bowler Fred Dryer on Dec 21, 2016 8:11:11 GMT -5
Hooking the leg is a little over rated. Too many people hook the leg and forget to cover the shoulders... which is what you are supposed to be pinning to the mat. Damn right, that drives me crazy every time I see it. And the fact that the announcers never call them out on it is annoying too.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 21, 2016 9:09:49 GMT -5
Style's hoodie robe was genuinely one of the most bush league looking things TNA's put to air, and I am well aware of all the connotations of that statement. It was also kinda patronizing when the Hogan era spoke of getting guys like Styles to "the next level" when long-time viewers had long had Styles intermittently sold to them as "Mr. TNA", "The Heart and Soul of TNA" and "The founding father of the X-division." That's before we even get to the fact that Styles was a 6-time X champ and a 5-time world champ. Like, I kinda get what they meant, but they'd repeatedly tried to give him personalities like a WWE-esque, top-line face or quasi-CM Punk, when he'd demonstrated he'd plenty of personality when left to his own devices. For example, I'd argue one can see the blueprints of AJ's current Smackdown run in his Christian Coalition/Angle Alliance goofy sidekick days. Granted, it was a strangely midcard position for TNA's golden boy, but there's that very same smarmy, semi-trollish pest that happens to be BitW present in '07 as the one that currently carries Smackdown on its shoulders. Bringing it back around to the the OP: I cannot understand how any long time follower of RVD, me included, can view his TNA run as anything other than a bitter disappointment. I once drank the kool-aid as to RVD being held down in WWE and when given carte-blanche elsewhere, we'd see all the promise of late-90s/early-00s manifest and taking full advantage of his national platform to prove everyone wrong. To the contrary, we got a massive sack of nothing. They gave him a robe with a hood? Wow. I used to love AJ's old hoodie he wore from early TNA days and I still often walk with my head down when wearing a hoodie and then throw the hood off, arms outstretched AJ Styles style randomly. AJ in TNA in TNA's eyes was always "nearly at that level", Dixie even said that when he was in NJPW. But for me whenever I get into a new promotion be in Shimmer, Lucha Underground or TNA seeing wrestlers I've never seen before is so exciting and AJ was already on the main event level for me from the first time I started watching in 2005. Absolutely, to the audience AJ WAS TNA. But TNA never treated him that way they always pushed him as "THE FUTURE OF TNA!"... despite him winning every title they had multiple times being one of if not the longest reigning world champion in company history.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 21, 2016 9:19:41 GMT -5
They gave him a robe with a hood? Wow. I used to love AJ's old hoodie he wore from early TNA days and I still often walk with my head down when wearing a hoodie and then throw the hood off, arms outstretched AJ Styles style randomly. AJ in TNA in TNA's eyes was always "nearly at that level", Dixie even said that when he was in NJPW. But for me whenever I get into a new promotion be in Shimmer, Lucha Underground or TNA seeing wrestlers I've never seen before is so exciting and AJ was already on the main event level for me from the first time I started watching in 2005. Absolutely, to the audience AJ WAS TNA. But TNA never treated him that way they always pushed him as "THE FUTURE OF TNA!"... despite him winning every title they had multiple times being one of if not the longest reigning world champion in company history. It seems fitting that of all of the people that have been the embodiment of TNA (AJ, Joe, Kurt, Sting, arguably even Eric Young in his way or Roode), the only one they'll have around soon seems to be Jeff Jarrett. Not even trying to shit on Jarrett here, but damn.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 21, 2016 15:45:51 GMT -5
Hey now AJ wasn't this goofy Flair clone until Hogan arrived. He was perfectly legit as a bonafide main eventer the way he was in late 2009. Style's hoodie robe was genuinely one of the most bush league looking things TNA's put to air, and I am well aware of all the connotations of that statement. It was also kinda patronizing when the Hogan era spoke of getting guys like Styles to "the next level" when long-time viewers had long had Styles intermittently sold to them as "Mr. TNA", "The Heart and Soul of TNA" and "The founding father of the X-division." That's before we even get to the fact that Styles was a 6-time X champ and a 5-time world champ. Like, I kinda get what they meant, but they'd repeatedly tried to give him personalities like a WWE-esque, top-line face or quasi-CM Punk, when he'd demonstrated he'd plenty of personality when left to his own devices. For example, I'd argue one can see the blueprints of AJ's current Smackdown run in his Christian Coalition/Angle Alliance goofy sidekick days. Granted, it was a strangely midcard position for TNA's golden boy, but there's that very same smarmy, semi-trollish pest that happens to be BitW present in '07 as the one that currently carries Smackdown on its shoulders. Bringing it back around to the the OP: I cannot understand how any long time follower of RVD, me included, can view his TNA run as anything other than a bitter disappointment. I once drank the kool-aid as to RVD being held down in WWE and when given carte-blanche elsewhere, we'd see all the promise of late-90s/early-00s manifest and taking full advantage of his national platform to prove everyone wrong. To the contrary, we got a massive sack of nothing. Yeah, there was a number of times when AJ clicked really well into a character in TNA, and somehow they'd always mess it up. He was a white bread babyface most of the time in the early days who was still very over, but the Christian Coalition/Angle Alliance/Prince AJ run showed he had comedy chops, his promos got better, and eventually he got a very strong face turn out of it, and he solidified himself as the top name in 2009 when he knocked off Angle and took the World title. ...So of course they mess it up by having him turn heel again and joining up with Flair, and while Fourtune had a couple of decent moments it just never did what it was supposed to do. He goes face again, and gets stuck in the Claire Lynch storyline...but he, Daniels, and Kazarian wind up salvaging that into the incredible run of Bad Influence and AJ adopting the loner character that wound up shaping the image he would take to the indies, NJPW, and now WWE...all of which is to say that TNA screwed it up again by low balling all three of them when the money came due! Take your pick, AJ could've run wild at any of those times, but TNA never knew what to do with a good thing for very long.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 3:18:01 GMT -5
Possible. I want to say both had been asked, along with maybe Kurt Angle. It happened to Christian, Kevin Nash, Angle, and RVD. That says a lot about what the casual fan thoughts of tna, and that was during tna's prime in SPIKE I won't be surprised if it happen to Sting too. I know a couple people who thought that was his first wresting appearance since WCW when he show up in WWE.
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Post by cabbageboy on Dec 30, 2016 18:08:34 GMT -5
I'm not sure I was expecting anything ultra great out of RVD in TNA. I figured he'd probably win the title since all former WWE guys do. I figured he'd be booked poorly, which everyone in TNA is. Truth be told RVD stopped caring about wrestling after the whole weed arrest that deep sixed his WWE and ECW title run. Actually I take that back. He was quite good in that 2006-07 ECW run, but once it was obvious he was gone he stopped giving a crap. It has always struck me as odd that WWE didn't even job him to anyone on the way out. If anything he was the only Original guy that got consistent wins over the New Breed and he even beat Randy Orton in the stretcher match on the way out (and Orton main evented Summerslam soon after!).
There's no doubt his 2011 stuff in TNA is pretty dire. The bad Anderson series of matches, wrestling an out of shape Matt Hardy, Lynn costing him all of those matches in the BFG Series to set up yet ANOTHER RVD/Lynn feud. The sad thing is that he got some juice behind him again in late 2012, winning the X Division title. If his contract ran a bit longer I could imagine him cashing in the X title for the shot at Bully Ray instead of the whole Sabin deal. I believe AJ won the BFG Series that year and the title at BFG, so if RVD stayed the rest of that year he could have at least finally put over Styles on his way out. Considering AJ was gone soon after, I'm not sure what that would matter.
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