|
Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 20, 2016 5:39:38 GMT -5
All right, I know it's a bit rich coming from me given I give his opinions as much shit as anyone if not more, but no more picking on the OP. If that's all you have to contribute to the thread, then don't.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,446
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 20, 2016 5:55:17 GMT -5
All right, I know it's a bit rich coming from me given I give his opinions as much shit as anyone if not more, but no more picking on the OP. If that's all you have to contribute to the thread, then don't. And if I may add one little tidbit, no one is asking you to click into the thread, let alone comment on it in such a derogatory manner. Speak your mind, disagree, fine. There's no reason to drag my name or opinion through the mud but especially just attacking me as a person in a mocking manner when all I did was talk about something I don't like in wrestling, which is a FAN Normalcy for many users here, not just me. That's just low rent shit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 6:04:48 GMT -5
I just have to ask for the people who are going, "No, you're wrong, this feud is AMAZING!" ... You can at least understand where the complaints are coming from, right? If you have loved it by all means, that's your right, and if you think all the matches have been amazing, great (though personally for me the feud has been a couple great matches but no real classics, and the rest of what I've seen just awkward crap), but you can at least see why, "Charlotte cuts the same promo every single week about being a queen, Sasha fails to beat her in a title match in five consecutive PPV title matches between them, they keep saying Charlotte's undefeated on PPV when she tapped out to Sasha at Battleground, and Sasha is a three time women's champion without a single successful defense while Charlotte is a five time champion in a span of fifteen months after debuting, all while the commentators keep screaming about how historic it all is for months on end," irritates people and turns them off, right? Because it seems to be even if you love it there's no possible way to argue the storyline hasn't had major issues on a basic writing level.
|
|
Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,279
|
Post by Woo on Dec 20, 2016 6:35:48 GMT -5
Is it an all-time great feud? No.
Is it the greatest female rivalry in the WWE ever? Quite possibly yes.
Lita/Trish is the only other one I can think of but I think this one surpasses that as while Trish and Lita had a few really good matches they spent most of their careers doing other stuff and their actual feud isn't as good or as long as people think it was.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,446
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 20, 2016 7:50:39 GMT -5
Is it an all-time great feud? No. Is it the greatest female rivalry in the WWE ever? Quite possibly yes. Lita/Trish is the only other one I can think of but I think this one surpasses that as while Trish and Lita had a few really good matches they spent most of their careers doing other stuff and their actual feud isn't as good or as long as people think it was. If we include NXT, which I think we do, it's nowhere near the best to me. Sasha and Bayley and even Becky vs Sasha had better chemistry and rivalries during their feuds to me than this...
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Dec 20, 2016 8:37:21 GMT -5
Miss Elizabeth vs Sensational Sherri is WWE's greatest ever female rivalry.
They didn't even need to wrestle each other. It was a princess vs a witch fighting over the soul of a king. Perfect storytelling.
|
|
kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
Posts: 4,274
|
Post by kidkamikaze10 on Dec 20, 2016 8:44:32 GMT -5
The only true blocker I see has nothing to do with Sasha or Charlotte, and everything to do with how RAW is presented.
|
|
|
Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 20, 2016 9:54:59 GMT -5
I would have loved some breaks in the repetitive booking of this feud, but Banks and Flair are charismatic and their matches have ranged from good to great, so I've mostly been fine with the whole thing.
And again, anything's better than WWE's old Divas division. I'd rather see these two fight well into 2017 than see another pillow fight or bra and panties match ever again.
But I will admit that now is the time to build up Bayley.
|
|
|
Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 20, 2016 9:56:15 GMT -5
I just have to ask for the people who are going, "No, you're wrong, this feud is AMAZING!" ... You can at least understand where the complaints are coming from, right? If you have loved it by all means, that's your right, and if you think all the matches have been amazing, great (though personally for me the feud has been a couple great matches but no real classics, and the rest of what I've seen just awkward crap), but you can at least see why, "Charlotte cuts the same promo every single week about being a queen, Sasha fails to beat her in a title match in five consecutive PPV title matches between them, they keep saying Charlotte's undefeated on PPV when she tapped out to Sasha at Battleground, and Sasha is a three time women's champion without a single successful defense while Charlotte is a five time champion in a span of fifteen months after debuting, all while the commentators keep screaming about how historic it all is for months on end," irritates people and turns them off, right? Because it seems to be even if you love it there's no possible way to argue the storyline hasn't had major issues on a basic writing level. No, I get the complaints and see them, I just don't care. I just want to see good women's matches and they're delivering.
|
|
|
Post by Big Bad Kahuna on Dec 20, 2016 10:05:54 GMT -5
I just have to ask for the people who are going, "No, you're wrong, this feud is AMAZING!" ... You can at least understand where the complaints are coming from, right? If you have loved it by all means, that's your right, and if you think all the matches have been amazing, great (though personally for me the feud has been a couple great matches but no real classics, and the rest of what I've seen just awkward crap), but you can at least see why, "Charlotte cuts the same promo every single week about being a queen, Sasha fails to beat her in a title match in five consecutive PPV title matches between them, they keep saying Charlotte's undefeated on PPV when she tapped out to Sasha at Battleground, and Sasha is a three time women's champion without a single successful defense while Charlotte is a five time champion in a span of fifteen months after debuting, all while the commentators keep screaming about how historic it all is for months on end," irritates people and turns them off, right? Because it seems to be even if you love it there's no possible way to argue the storyline hasn't had major issues on a basic writing level. When 2 competitors ARE on the same level, it IS realistic that there are plenty title changes! You ever thought about that?
|
|
|
Post by Big Bad Kahuna on Dec 20, 2016 10:07:33 GMT -5
well it actually is, even if they're forcing it...if you add their NXT rivalry it is the best rivalry between two women in WWE history besides Trish/Lita and in front of Alundra/Bull, Stephanie/Trish or Sasha/Bayley (as of now) But keep in mind they said THE BEST, not one of, the best, and them saying that is gonna result in well, immediate disagreement due to the examples you even just listed itself. Well according to me it IS a better feuf than the ones I listed, so? Yeah Trish/Lita is the only other contender (because of longevity mainly, matches were worse than Charlotte/Sasha)
|
|
metylerca
King Koopa
Loves Him Some Backstreet Boys.
Don't be alarmed.
Posts: 12,477
|
Post by metylerca on Dec 20, 2016 10:09:57 GMT -5
Wrestling is a carny industry. Every WrestleMania is the greatest WrestleMania. Every Rumble is "the most stacked Rumble ever." Every main event star they push is "the greatest superstar on WWE history."
It's a business. They're selling to the casuals, not us. You may not feel that way, but you're not everyone. Not everyone sees their buzzwords and business speak and kneejerks.
It's easier for them to call something the greatest than to say "the greatest women's rivalry since this other women's rivalry, or quite possibly this other rivalry, Sasha and Bayley also could be better than this one, I don't know!" I know it's patronizing, but the answer is that wrestling's fake. They create their own narrative. If it makes their current product seem more important to boast it as being the "best ever", they'll do that because it might make people actually think it. No, not you. Not the ones who are such big fans that they post on message boards during and after each show to complain and then watch some more. They do it so the casual audience (it's who they need in order to build business) might hear it and consider it important.
Internet fans love continuity. It's great, I wish they were more acknowledging of their past, as well. But even then, there's the segment who thinks they harp too much on the past. Sometimes it's the same people who complain that they put too much emphasis on their current product. Sometimes it's the ones who just complain.
They're never going to please everyone and certainly won't please the ones who will voice their displeasure most, because there's no use in doing so. It's a business, there's money in it. Real sports. Hockey. They bask in prestige and respect their former stars on commentary because it's real and these guys really did rack up those stats. The hockey audience will appreciate this and while there's a conscious effort to build up the sport for monetary reasons, the ones running NHL wouldn't insult their audience by calling ____the next Gretzky. Wrestling is different. Too many people know it's staged to take it seriously when the presentation goes real. Nobody took Evolve seriously with their real presentation. It's not about what was great then, it's about "how can we get a couple more people to subscribe to the network as they change channels and stumble upon a women's segment on RAW? Our business model is banking on getting more people to give us $10 a month for this." I know it's frustrating, but it's the truth.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 10:58:22 GMT -5
I just have to ask for the people who are going, "No, you're wrong, this feud is AMAZING!" ... You can at least understand where the complaints are coming from, right? If you have loved it by all means, that's your right, and if you think all the matches have been amazing, great (though personally for me the feud has been a couple great matches but no real classics, and the rest of what I've seen just awkward crap), but you can at least see why, "Charlotte cuts the same promo every single week about being a queen, Sasha fails to beat her in a title match in five consecutive PPV title matches between them, they keep saying Charlotte's undefeated on PPV when she tapped out to Sasha at Battleground, and Sasha is a three time women's champion without a single successful defense while Charlotte is a five time champion in a span of fifteen months after debuting, all while the commentators keep screaming about how historic it all is for months on end," irritates people and turns them off, right? Because it seems to be even if you love it there's no possible way to argue the storyline hasn't had major issues on a basic writing level. When 2 competitors ARE on the same level, it IS realistic that there are plenty title changes! You ever thought about that? He/she never said it wasn't realistic... He/she said it was bad storytelling. Something can be realistic and still be bad storytelling. This feud had all the potential to go down as the best women's feud of all time due to the performers involved and the amount of attention on women this year but due to the storytelling involved I just don't see it that way. By the end sadly I had stopped caring and this isn't a sexist thing like one or two people are trying to insinuate, a lot of people here voted for a women's match as match of the year last year so I really don't think the sexist thing holds much water on these forums. Bayley vs Sasha is my personal pick for best women's storyline of all time.
|
|
DragonMasterP
King Koopa
Wait, I turned 30? How'd that happen?
Posts: 11,987
|
Post by DragonMasterP on Dec 20, 2016 11:10:41 GMT -5
Somehow I fell like "By default!" should be added to that sentence.
|
|
|
Post by Tiger Millionaire on Dec 20, 2016 11:14:25 GMT -5
They're on a big kick to make things seem historic, not understanding that when it happens organically, it gets over.
|
|
|
Post by xCompackx on Dec 20, 2016 11:29:44 GMT -5
I just don't understand why we have to be told when something is great. Sasha and Charlotte really have put on some good matches; why not let that sell itself? Women's wrestling has already been doing great in WWE with NXT having a fantastic women's division that both Sasha and Charlotte came from. It's okay to let these matches breathe and allow us to enjoy them without telling us that it's great.
Also, as far as the constant title changes go, my big thing is how it ended up not meaning anything. When you have a feud that inflates the amount of championships two people have won only for the original holder to end up as champion, what are you accomplishing?
|
|
Lupin the Third
Patti Mayonnaise
I'm sorry.....I love you. *boot to the head*--3rd most culpable in the jixing of NXT, D'oh!
Join the Dark Order....
Posts: 36,321
|
Post by Lupin the Third on Dec 20, 2016 11:30:38 GMT -5
Miss Elizabeth vs Sensational Sherri is WWE's greatest ever female rivalry. They didn't even need to wrestle each other. It was a princess vs a witch fighting over the soul of a king. Perfect storytelling. Holy shit. I didn't even think of that. I was gonna say Trish/Lita was the greatest women's rivalry in WWE history. But you sold me on that. It makes the match at Wrestlemania VII that much more special. The princess was able to defeat the witch and reclaim the soul of the king, who returned to the man we all knew and love.
|
|
Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,420
|
Post by Abdullah on Dec 20, 2016 12:43:35 GMT -5
I just have to ask for the people who are going, "No, you're wrong, this feud is AMAZING!" ... You can at least understand where the complaints are coming from, right? If you have loved it by all means, that's your right, and if you think all the matches have been amazing, great (though personally for me the feud has been a couple great matches but no real classics, and the rest of what I've seen just awkward crap), but you can at least see why, "Charlotte cuts the same promo every single week about being a queen, Sasha fails to beat her in a title match in five consecutive PPV title matches between them, they keep saying Charlotte's undefeated on PPV when she tapped out to Sasha at Battleground, and Sasha is a three time women's champion without a single successful defense while Charlotte is a five time champion in a span of fifteen months after debuting, all while the commentators keep screaming about how historic it all is for months on end," irritates people and turns them off, right? Because it seems to be even if you love it there's no possible way to argue the storyline hasn't had major issues on a basic writing level. No, I get the complaints and see them, I just don't care. I just want to see good women's matches and they're delivering. Being real honest here, these 'great matches' are kind of tainted by the fact that WWE, for years, have had women employed who are honestly better all-around talents than Sasha and Charlotte except they were never allowed to show it because Stephanie only discovered feminism in early 2015. Or because she was called out on Twitter. I don't know. Looking beyond that, what even is the story between Sasha and Charlotte beyond a meta 'now, we take our women seriously' narrative? Not replying to you, specifically, but it's been paper-thin; rocketing between personal one segment and an indifferent test to who see who is better the next. I can see why many would scoff at WWE's transparency. For me, AJ Lee's feud with Kaitlyn is the best (somewhat) recent women's feud on the main roster. There was an actual conflict there which played into their matches and progressed from week to week rather than this empty history-making by Flair and Banks which is still occasionally greeted by restless crowds.
|
|
Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 10,990
|
Post by Sparkybob on Dec 20, 2016 13:16:03 GMT -5
They do have the benefit of having a platform that a lot of girls will never have gotten in terms of match and promos. Yes they still needed to knock it out of the park but it's a bit.....forced? can't think of the right word here. But it's easier to proclaim best women rivalry ever when they get spots on the card most women will never have a chance to get
Do I think AJ/Kaitlyn or Nikki/Paige could have done as well as Sasha/Charlotte? Probably not but they weren't given the same opportunities to shine (or fail miserably) like the current girls. I haven't seen the previous matches but I give Sasha/Flair a lot of credit because they had a lot of pressure to show women can do these type of matches. If they put up some -2 star matches women wrestling might be dead as a main attraction on WWE for a long time. So kudos on them for showing they can pull off hardcore matches.
My main point is still it's easier to judge whether a blood feud between men is the best ever or not (Like is Cena/Edge better than HHH/Rock) because the men have similar chances to showcase their abilities over a long period of time via promo or gimmick matches. Women it's a much smaller list so being the top of it isn't as impressive right now but history will be a better judge of their feud.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 17:49:24 GMT -5
I just have to ask for the people who are going, "No, you're wrong, this feud is AMAZING!" ... You can at least understand where the complaints are coming from, right? If you have loved it by all means, that's your right, and if you think all the matches have been amazing, great (though personally for me the feud has been a couple great matches but no real classics, and the rest of what I've seen just awkward crap), but you can at least see why, "Charlotte cuts the same promo every single week about being a queen, Sasha fails to beat her in a title match in five consecutive PPV title matches between them, they keep saying Charlotte's undefeated on PPV when she tapped out to Sasha at Battleground, and Sasha is a three time women's champion without a single successful defense while Charlotte is a five time champion in a span of fifteen months after debuting, all while the commentators keep screaming about how historic it all is for months on end," irritates people and turns them off, right? Because it seems to be even if you love it there's no possible way to argue the storyline hasn't had major issues on a basic writing level. No, I get the complaints and see them, I just don't care. I just want to see good women's matches and they're delivering. And that's fine in my view. It was mostly just the, "There's no pleasing you people, this is amazing!" thing that bugs me. Someone likes it despite the flaws, great, good for them.
|
|