Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Dec 24, 2016 18:12:37 GMT -5
Since his heel turn he has become infinitely better all round. I don't know why they tried his lame hat and suspenders dude gimmick first off as a face... It worked for Tommy Dreamer?
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Post by Yacht Persona on Dec 24, 2016 18:19:24 GMT -5
The heel turn has worked wonders I think. He actually seems to have momentum now, and he was excellent in the four-way elimination match.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 45,786
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 24, 2016 18:59:09 GMT -5
I think it's interesting that the last several high profile luchadors they've signed haven't fared as well as they wanted to. Compared to how much of a huge success Rey Mysterio was it's interesting they haven't really been able to recreate that. It's still early for Almas though, time will tell. There was this weird vibe with Rey, honestly. Since he was so short, and always masked, he was basically the ultimate kid-friendly wrestler, and could act more-or-less as their in-ring avatar, moreso than the "Larger than Life" guys like Cena or Batista could. And for a LOT of his time in WWE, they'd milk that for sympathy by having him be someone else's (Eddie's, Batista's, RVD's, Edge's) little buddy, and always in their orbit. Neither Myzteziz nor Hunico (and certainly never tall-ass Alberto) have ever felt like sympathetic figures, nor that avatar for the children in the audience.
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Post by HisRoyalGreeness on Dec 24, 2016 19:05:21 GMT -5
He could always put the mask back on and he could rationalize it by saying the fans aren't worthy of seeing his, as Corey Graves put it, supremely handsome face.
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Post by TheFadedSpade on Dec 24, 2016 19:28:33 GMT -5
Didn't ADR claim that Almas hated being in NXT? After being forced to do something completely different, I could see it. Wasn't this an error in translation or something?
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Rican
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
July 17, 2011 - HHHe called it
Posts: 16,420
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Post by Rican on Dec 24, 2016 19:42:27 GMT -5
I think it's interesting that the last several high profile luchadors they've signed haven't fared as well as they wanted to. Compared to how much of a huge success Rey Mysterio was it's interesting they haven't really been able to recreate that. It's still early for Almas though, time will tell. There was this weird vibe with Rey, honestly. Since he was so short, and always masked, he was basically the ultimate kid-friendly wrestler, and could act more-or-less as their in-ring avatar, moreso than the "Larger than Life" guys like Cena or Batista could. And for a LOT of his time in WWE, they'd milk that for sympathy by having him be someone else's (Eddie's, Batista's, RVD's, Edge's) little buddy, and always in their orbit. Neither Myzteziz nor Hunico (and certainly never tall-ass Alberto) have ever felt like sympathetic figures, nor that avatar for the children in the audience. That's why of anybody, I thought Kalisto would fair better, but the crowd doesn't seem to take to him as much as they did Rey. It's weird. I wonder if because people soured on Rey towards the end of his WWE run audiences are just over luchadors for a while.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2016 0:22:15 GMT -5
There was this weird vibe with Rey, honestly. Since he was so short, and always masked, he was basically the ultimate kid-friendly wrestler, and could act more-or-less as their in-ring avatar, moreso than the "Larger than Life" guys like Cena or Batista could. And for a LOT of his time in WWE, they'd milk that for sympathy by having him be someone else's (Eddie's, Batista's, RVD's, Edge's) little buddy, and always in their orbit. Neither Myzteziz nor Hunico (and certainly never tall-ass Alberto) have ever felt like sympathetic figures, nor that avatar for the children in the audience. That's why of anybody, I thought Kalisto would fair better, but the crowd doesn't seem to take to him as much as they did Rey. It's weird. I wonder if because people soured on Rey towards the end of his WWE run audiences are just over luchadors for a while. Today's crowds just don't like being told who to like or if it feels like they are getting a knock off version of someone beloved. That and Rey Mysterio just had tons off charisma going all the way way way back to his Lucha/ECW/WCW days that Kalisto just doesn't nearly have. Sin Cara uno was the only guy who came close in the charisma department if it wasn't for him being a jackass injury proned botch machine who refuses to speak English. But for Rey Mysterio WWE always gave him a decent amount of mic time and we had a general sense of his real life character and personality. Now the problem with WWE's handling of Lucha's is they play this silent brooding type and when they talk it's the same Spanglish promo in a nasally voice about representing my people and Lucha Libra tradition Viva La Raza promo we heard so many times we even think they aren't buying in what they are saying.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Dec 25, 2016 0:23:20 GMT -5
Meltzer is a fool who has done more damage to the business than Vince McMahon.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,575
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Post by Dub H on Dec 25, 2016 0:25:29 GMT -5
There was this weird vibe with Rey, honestly. Since he was so short, and always masked, he was basically the ultimate kid-friendly wrestler, and could act more-or-less as their in-ring avatar, moreso than the "Larger than Life" guys like Cena or Batista could. And for a LOT of his time in WWE, they'd milk that for sympathy by having him be someone else's (Eddie's, Batista's, RVD's, Edge's) little buddy, and always in their orbit. Neither Myzteziz nor Hunico (and certainly never tall-ass Alberto) have ever felt like sympathetic figures, nor that avatar for the children in the audience. That's why of anybody, I thought Kalisto would fair better, but the crowd doesn't seem to take to him as much as they did Rey. It's weird. I wonder if because people soured on Rey towards the end of his WWE run audiences are just over luchadors for a while. Might have had to do with Kalisto crap booking. Like ,it is better now,but there never was much reason to care about Kalisto or the lucha dragons overall. Crowds always enjoy his matches,but after the Lucha Dragons great debut they decided to say f*** it and just drop it. Which is the usual RAW debut pattern.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Dec 25, 2016 0:34:15 GMT -5
That's why of anybody, I thought Kalisto would fair better, but the crowd doesn't seem to take to him as much as they did Rey. It's weird. I wonder if because people soured on Rey towards the end of his WWE run audiences are just over luchadors for a while. Might have had to do with Kalisto crap booking. Like ,it is better now,but there never was much reason to care about Kalisto or the lucha dragons overall. Crowds always enjoy his matches,but after the Lucha Dragons great debut they decided to say f*** it and just drop it. Which is the usual RAW debut pattern. I think Kalisto not being very good played a big part. He botched in matches, had the charisma of a wet plastic bag and couldn't put together a truly compelling match to save his life. The best thing Kalisto has done is make people realize just how truly special Rey Mysterio was.
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Post by Ecks Ecks Ringout Ecks Ecks on Dec 25, 2016 1:16:44 GMT -5
Almas as Battle Kat II confirmed.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2016 2:00:12 GMT -5
I'm surprised that the WWE hasn't just said 'screw it' and hired one of the assorted El Hijo de Rey Misterios roaming around, Rey's cousin even got knockoff tats. Rey's son is training to be a wrestler. I think they rather has his son then one of his wannabe cousins.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2016 2:24:23 GMT -5
I know I've heard Meltzer draw comparisons to Shinsuke Nakamura based on Adrade's work as La Sombra, I've never seen it so I can't really tell. All I know is I was really underwhelmed by his debut as Andrade Almas.
Pretty big goof if that's the case, if they had a Nakamura-like presence and they took it away for such the lackluster act that they started with, but the thing is it could have also worked completely fine too, I don't think it was a completely ludicrous move to remove the mask, they just took a chance and it failed. Sami Zayn could have been looked at the same way, but he's better as Zayn than he was as Generico I think.
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Phil Parent
El Dandy
Your Favourite Teacher
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Phil Parent on Dec 25, 2016 4:13:06 GMT -5
He should just copy his buddy Naito and be an asshole heel with a couple minions.
Hell, sign Naito and tag them. I think Naito owns Los Ingobernables so....
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 25, 2016 6:44:24 GMT -5
He should just copy his buddy Naito and be an asshole heel with a couple minions. Hell, sign Naito and tag them. I think Naito owns Los Ingobernables so.... Naito was taught the ways of being a rudo by Almas and his hombre, Rush. He started the Japon branch of Los Ingobernables with their blessings. People need to watch Almas' heel work in CMLL as La Sombra and wonder why we didn't get that guy instead of the humble, generic babyface luchador from the jump.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,575
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Post by Dub H on Dec 25, 2016 8:25:54 GMT -5
Might have had to do with Kalisto crap booking. Like ,it is better now,but there never was much reason to care about Kalisto or the lucha dragons overall. Crowds always enjoy his matches,but after the Lucha Dragons great debut they decided to say f*** it and just drop it. Which is the usual RAW debut pattern. I think Kalisto not being very good played a big part. He botched in matches, had the charisma of a wet plastic bag and couldn't put together a truly compelling match to save his life. The best thing Kalisto has done is make people realize just how truly special Rey Mysterio was. Everyone has botched in matches,including mysterio. He has Charisma in the ring and it is passable outside. And he generally has really fun matches. Mysterio is one of a kind,but Kalisto aint bad
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Dec 25, 2016 8:44:35 GMT -5
I'm surprised that the WWE hasn't just said 'screw it' and hired one of the assorted El Hijo de Rey Misterios roaming around, Rey's cousin even got knockoff tats. Well, Hijo de Rey Misterio II (Rey Horus) is currently busy being Dragon Azteca Jr, but I'm not sure if the first one has done anything really since his run in Extreme Rising.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Dec 25, 2016 10:44:01 GMT -5
I think Kalisto not being very good played a big part. He botched in matches, had the charisma of a wet plastic bag and couldn't put together a truly compelling match to save his life. The best thing Kalisto has done is make people realize just how truly special Rey Mysterio was. Everyone has botched in matches,including mysterio. He has Charisma in the ring and it is passable outside. And he generally has really fun matches. Mysterio is one of a kind,but Kalisto aint bad Where are these really fun matches? The Corbin match at TLC was alright and please don't bring up his debut because that's the one example everyone jumps to. I'm not saying the dude is useless but honestly. He's probably the third best luchador in the company after Almas and Sin Cara.
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Facetious
King Koopa
ADAM COLE BAYBAY
Posts: 11,420
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Post by Facetious on Dec 25, 2016 10:58:09 GMT -5
What chances has Kalisto had to shine? His biggest chances were against Del Rio where after he went over he moved to the background and small bits on Smackdown. It doesn't help that they took away the stuff that helped him get noticed on the indies in the first place.
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Post by Adam Black on Dec 25, 2016 11:31:45 GMT -5
This man is the OG Ingobernable. The shit Naito's been doing all started from him. If they played their cards right, he could be the man who detrones Shinsuke.
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