mrbananagrabber
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Dec 30, 2016 7:13:45 GMT -5
So Oney Lorcan just pinned Cien Almas on NXT: Osaka last Wednesday (sure it was taped a month ago but still) and Tom Phillips made a point about saying that Cien had pinned CLEAN Shinsuke Nakamura in IWGP for their Intercontinental Championship. So... Oney > Nakamura in kayfabe NXT now Yeah, that might have been the point when NXT jumped the shark for me People usually complain when a wrestler's history is ignored or forgotten, I don't see any reason to complain about this. Surely in kayfabe any one guy can pin another on any given night, or have a hot streak/lucky break.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 30, 2016 10:23:15 GMT -5
The characters are definitely boring. Most of them boil down to 'Man that entrance/entrance music!' That's the problem I've always had with NXT and the modern era of WWE in general. All of these characters are told to us; not shown. No one had to tell us Steve Austin was a Rattlesnake or DX was juvenile, or hell that Rick Rude was vain. We saw it every single week in every single segment they're in. Most guys today are identical with a different narrative overlaid on commentary. It's like WWE Universe mode on the video games Going a step further, I think a huge problem in their current presentation is how much they play it up as "these people are just thrilled to be WWE Superstars (tm)!" WWE really wants to set itself up as the Major League Baseball of pro wrestling; it already is in many ways, but I mean even in terms of getting various smaller promotions under them as something akin to the minor league baseball system, all complete with the monopoly protections that MLB gets from the government (no that I think Vince is in line to go to Congress to request that, anyway). But this ends up meaning that a big character hook that these new guys come up with is "I'm ready to break through on the biggest stage!", or "This is my lifelong dream, to work for this company!", rather than actually being standalone, compelling characters that could exist in any promotion and draw money and fan interest.
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Post by berlynwright on Dec 30, 2016 10:31:03 GMT -5
Main events feuds have been lethargic ever since Zayn gone. They expect us to back the title programs by names alone. Joe/Balor - was just ok, they had buildup with the tag finals, but they just didn't click and matches were clumsy, add to the fact that Balor beat Joe like 3 times. Nakamura/Joe, against matches have been clunky (i know some liked - i.e - Meltzer), story is more about Joe/Regal, again the good old Authority vs Wrestler stuff
Really nothing much happens on TV too. Just matches. Most over guy on the show is someone who chants 10, with no layer of character, second most is only over for his theme song, again with no character.
They're just coasting through program after program hoping the 'NXT as hip brand' will sell the tickets. Really can't blame them as long as they have people chant 10 and sing along theme songs in crowd wherever they go.
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Abdullah
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Post by Abdullah on Dec 30, 2016 11:25:38 GMT -5
They're just coasting through program after program hoping the 'NXT as hip brand' will sell the tickets. Really can't blame them as long as they have people chant 10 and sing along theme songs in crowd wherever they go. That won't last. The current 'Takeover' trend of one, standout great match surrounded by forgettable ones is not sustainable. You have to think the gradual lack of buzz online will catch up to ticket sales for their big events eventually. And while cabbageboy's historical perspective was awesome and enlightening because I've never thought of it like that, I'm not sure if it should apply to NXT TV and I'm not sure the excuse of 'WWE raided them' holds much water. In any case, Triple H's apparent booking philosophy of hiring name talent and just asking them to wrestle proficiently is unspeakably lazy. It takes a certain level of obliviousness to take a guy like Nakamura, after a stellar debut, and just cool him off completely.
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Post by cabbageboy on Dec 30, 2016 11:41:52 GMT -5
NXT isn't really the same as OVW. I at least understood OVW for what it was, namely developmental TV. As such it was easy to grade it on a curve and project who would end up being a star out of it. It isn't really about talent raiding since that's what shows like OVW and NXT are for, being raided. Even when NXT was a better show than it is now I didn't truly understand the point. As goofy as the weekly elimination NXT was at least I knew it was a bunch of rookies and a few indie vets trying to earn a WWE contract. When I tried using the same developmental logic with the Network NXT...I couldn't process it. I kept projecting where these guys would be on the WWE roster and a lot of them just seemed like they had no future.
NXT's biggest success as a developmental brand is probably the women. Charlotte, Sasha, Alexa, and Bayley are pretty much products of that system (Becky Lynch was a veteran).
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PKO
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Post by PKO on Dec 30, 2016 11:42:17 GMT -5
Dusty passing and it's head writers leaving really impacted the entire show. Characters are less well rounded, stories are more basic...I've all but given up on the weekly shows as nothing that happens seems noteworthy.
The takeovers have fantastic wrestling, but NXT used to stand out for its simple and effective booking as well.
Smackdown is definitely the show to watch now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 12:00:02 GMT -5
So Oney Lorcan just pinned Cien Almas on NXT: Osaka last Wednesday (sure it was taped a month ago but still) and Tom Phillips made a point about saying that Cien had pinned CLEAN Shinsuke Nakamura in IWGP for their Intercontinental Championship. So... Oney > Nakamura in kayfabe NXT now Yeah, that might have been the point when NXT jumped the shark for me Eh that's like saying Jinder Mahal lost to Seth Rollins in the final for the first ever NXT Championship match or Bo Dallas is a former NXT Champion.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 30, 2016 12:02:06 GMT -5
So Oney Lorcan just pinned Cien Almas on NXT: Osaka last Wednesday (sure it was taped a month ago but still) and Tom Phillips made a point about saying that Cien had pinned CLEAN Shinsuke Nakamura in IWGP for their Intercontinental Championship. So... Oney > Nakamura in kayfabe NXT now Yeah, that might have been the point when NXT jumped the shark for me Eh that's like saying Jinder Mahal lost to Seth Rollins in the final for the first ever NXT Championship match or Bo Dallas is a former NXT Champion. and one of the main things that has been part of NXT pretty much forever has been ANYONE is one or two wins away from being in title contention. I mean Tye Dillenger who has been a jobber for years just came close to facing Nakamura at the next Takeover.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 12:04:25 GMT -5
I rarely watch NXT honestly anymore. The Takeovers usually deliver.
Though actually the last one was probably the weakest I've seen since I subbed to the network. I mean it wasn't terrible but I didn't really like it either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 12:13:43 GMT -5
Eh that's like saying Jinder Mahal lost to Seth Rollins in the final for the first ever NXT Championship match or Bo Dallas is a former NXT Champion. and one of the main things that has been part of NXT pretty much forever has been ANYONE is one or two wins away from being in title contention. I mean Tye Dillenger who has been a jobber for years just came close to facing Nakamura at the next Takeover. Hell if you look up the win-loss records of some of the top MMA/Boxers in the world. You'll see many of them lost to tomato cans/future tomato cans/non active guys/guys stuck in the little leagues early in there careers
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Post by häšhtå.gdālėÿ on Dec 30, 2016 12:29:22 GMT -5
My interest in NXT has fallen with the rise of Nakamura. I haven't fully turned on him yet, but I'm quite bored of him and make no effort to seek out his show.
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Post by Nic Nemeth on Dec 31, 2016 2:25:14 GMT -5
Honestly it's okay, that's it.
They're selling on names alone but ignoring the guys who need to be developed.
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Post by berlynwright on Dec 31, 2016 3:43:32 GMT -5
My interest in NXT has fallen with the rise of Nakamura. I haven't fully turned on him yet, but I'm quite bored of him and make no effort to seek out his show. Very common issue with him even back in Japan. Absolutely tears the house down on marquee matches but doesn't quite pull his weight during other matches
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Heartbreaker
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Post by Heartbreaker on Dec 31, 2016 4:51:24 GMT -5
With the women's division, they really f***ed up. They spent a whole year having Bayley, Asuka, Alexa and etc. beating unsigned women in squash matches every single week. Meanwhile... Billie Kay, Peyton Royce and Ember Moon weren't doing anything on TV, in Ember's case it took forever for her to even debut.
Then Alexa, Carmella, Dana Brooke, Emma, Nia Jax and Bayley got called up.
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Abdullah
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Post by Abdullah on Dec 31, 2016 5:57:54 GMT -5
With the women's division, they really f***ed up. They spent a whole year having Bayley, Asuka, Alexa and etc. beating unsigned women in squash matches every single week. Meanwhile... Billie Kay, Peyton Royce and Ember Moon weren't doing anything on TV, in Ember's case it took forever for her to even debut. Then Alexa, Carmella, Dana Brooke, Emma, Nia Jax and Bayley got called up. Yeah, that was really weird. Did we really need to be subjected to a televised tryout process for Deonna Purrazzo when they had more interesting women sitting around? And since they're going to sign all of these frequent jobbers for the tournament anyway, it's pretty pointless.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 31, 2016 7:28:08 GMT -5
NXT's problems really started when they moved from the developmental show format into super indy mode. Newbies got pushed into the background or completely off tv for the more established talents. The 4 Horsewomen and later Asuka dominated the women division. Nia Jax was making headway but got moved to the main roster too soon. The 4 Horsewomen left a void that still hasn't been filled due to them being segregated from the rest of the ladies. They needed to work with them in order to up their game like the previous women, Paige and Summer Rae, did with them. Now they got to elevate each other which is going to be a longer process because even some of the Shimmer veterans aren't complete players.
Then we got the male side of the house. The main event picture is mostly guys over 35 with over a decade of experience. Even Tye Dillinger been at for quite a while. Not saying veteran presence isn't needed. But the focus been this vet won the NXT title. Now he fights the former champ for months until another vet comes along for the belt. New vet wins the NXT title and fights the former champ in a series of matches. Former champ eventually moves to the main roster. Wash, rinse, repeat. New blood needs to cycled in. By new blood, I mean people who are actually considered to be the future of WWE. Some how a dream match for years in Samoa Joe vs Shinsuke Nakamura became a nightmare for some regardless of the name value and workrate.
There are ways to fix the show to make it must watch tv again. Focus on giving newbies most ready for tv actual defined characters. TM61 are just 2 random Aussies who wrestled in Japan. I bet most can't tell them apart. Speaking of twinning, The Authors of Pain need to speak for themselves at some point. I get they have a legendary manager as their mouthpiece but some individual personalities would help. Patrick Clark is getting tv time but someone should be working with him to flesh out his character. Make people believe him. They tossed Tino Sabbatelli and Ridderick Moss as a tag team on tv and stopped any form of development. DIY has the fanfare but needs rivals since the Revival are on their way out. Little basic things to return its spot as destination tv. Workrate is dandy but a reason to care and sucked in matters more.
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Post by wallabylikeyou on Dec 31, 2016 9:22:20 GMT -5
It's definitely dipped with the focus on big names coming in as themselves and staying as themselves. When NXT was at its height, it had good wrestling, but it also had the likes of Bo Dallas, Neville, Zayn, Bayley and Sasha Banks go through recognisable character arcs. That happens much less often now and has been absent from the main event since the first Joe/Balor fight. Hopefully 2017 will be a return to form but it seems like the idea of what NXT should be has changed with the changes in creative.
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Hypnosis
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Post by Hypnosis on Dec 31, 2016 11:10:14 GMT -5
Hopefully 2017 will be a return to form but it seems like the idea of what NXT should be has changed with the changes in creative. Strangely enough, Jimmy Jacobs is listed as one of the NXT writers on Wikipedia, but not as the head writer, so I'm not sure how many of his ideas are making it on the weekly NXT shows, other than Sanity, perhaps.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 31, 2016 11:32:28 GMT -5
So Oney Lorcan just pinned Cien Almas on NXT: Osaka last Wednesday (sure it was taped a month ago but still) and Tom Phillips made a point about saying that Cien had pinned CLEAN Shinsuke Nakamura in IWGP for their Intercontinental Championship. So... Oney > Nakamura in kayfabe NXT now Yeah, that might have been the point when NXT jumped the shark for me Since WWE extends their canon outside of their company, if you really want to get technical, Lorcan owns wins over Johnny Gargano, Zack Sabre Jr. (Who they called one of the best wrestlers in the world on multiple occasions), Drew Gulak, Apollo Crews, Eddie Edwards, wrestled current WWE Universal Champion Kevin Owens to a draw, Chris Hero, among others
Dude is no slouch, and can believably beat some of the best wrestlers on the planet because technically speaking he IS one of the best if you've ever seen him work, and if he gets a character going, he will take NXT by storm
Any given night someone can be beaten no matter who they themselves have also beaten, even clean. So no, that's not a shark jumping moment, that's completely believable, because frankly, at that point a month ago, Cien wasn't setting the world on fire, and what matters in wrestling most is the present, so it's not to even say he was above Lorcan that much in standing, and he lost, plain and simple. To base your whole opinion on NXT currently on one match in Osaka, to me is ridiculous, because again, it's a believable scenario, and wrestling is not meant to always give you the sure winner, and if you just go by credentials for wins, you may be watching for the wrong reasons...
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trollrogue
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Post by trollrogue on Dec 31, 2016 12:28:31 GMT -5
Geez it was a joke. Happy New Year and get drunk you geeks
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