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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 3, 2017 12:41:11 GMT -5
Raw isn't as shit as people keep saying it is. Smackdown isn't as perfect as most claim. NXT isn't so boring as a mayo sandwich. 205 Live is a much better show than most will give credit to. People are highly influenced by the opinions of others. Dave Meltzer is the Siskel and Ebert to a generation of fans. His hot takes and cool picks are taken as gospel. If he says New Japan is the best wrestling in the world, people would accept it even if they never watched an actual match. Around here, if someone or something is deemed terrible; no matter how flawed the logic or if the OP is joking, people take it as truth. And if you go against that popular opinion, you get called a troll, mark, or worst: anti-IWC. Before long, the script will flip and Raw will be the beloved show while Smackdown is disliked with those on that show's dick now claiming they never did like it. Nature of the beast. Don't agree with your assessment in regards to Meltzer pied pipering the forum along to our stances on Raw/Smackdown/NXT. Papa Meltzer is actually quite cold to NXT and Smackdown most of the time. The enthusiasm for both around here definitely doesn't reflect Meltzer's opinion, he's big on the Takeovers usually, but he's relatively nonplussed about the weekly shows. Can it not be as simple as people don't like Raw and like Smackdown and not some underlying mind control? I used Meltzer as an example but he was not my focus. Things like "Dolph Ziggler is a disgrace" went from being a joke into gospel around here. If enough people proclaim Bayley as a hack, folks will follow along. Not saying we are a hivemind but we do fall victim to peer pressure at some point. I like both Raw and Smackdown. Both got their strengths and weaknesses. Both got wrestlers I can't wait to see and those who I hate. Seeing folks wishing for Raw to fail but forgeting that Smackdown's success still works in Raw's favor reminds of those who claim that NXT is not part of WWE. You can like one show more than the other. But at the end of the day, it's all part of Vince's empire.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Jan 3, 2017 12:43:17 GMT -5
There's a lot I miss about Raw but Roman and the Levesques far override it. The people from Raw I like I see at their PPVs, which I usually end up being angry with anyway due to the booking.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jan 3, 2017 13:01:52 GMT -5
See thing I think a lot of you are comparing the two shows. I don't and consider them both under one umbrella. Perhaps that's the key to a more level judgement? Why is your judgement the more level one? And yes, they are under one corporate umbrella but they are written by two different writing teams, directed by different people and have different casts/rosters, they are made to be compared to each other as well as compliment each other in theory. Much like there is the MCU, WWE has created their own Universe with different branches. Iron Man, Captain America, GotG, and Ant Man to WWE's Raw, SDL, NXT, 205, and soon the UK show.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Jan 3, 2017 13:05:14 GMT -5
Raw has the same issues as a show like Walking Dead. They both seem to have more TV time to fill then they do quality programming to fill it.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Jan 3, 2017 13:14:06 GMT -5
See thing I think a lot of you are comparing the two shows. I don't and consider them both under one umbrella. Perhaps that's the key to a more level judgement? Why is your judgement the more level one? And yes, they are under one corporate umbrella but they are written by two different writing teams, directed by different people and have different casts/rosters, they are made to be compared to each other as well as compliment each other in theory. Much like there is the MCU, WWE has created their own Universe with different branches. Iron Man, Captain America, GotG, and Ant Man to WWE's Raw, SDL, NXT, 205, and soon the UK show. Simply put, my judgement is more level imo because it avoids hyperbole. I always thought that sd is better but it's not holy shit best thing ever. But I can also give Raw it's due when point out good stuff. It isn't offensively bad. There's still plenty to like. But in regards to one umbrella, when you separate the two into brand vs brand, biases form, you pick a side and point out all of the positives with minimal acknowledgement of the negatives for the show you prefer and vice versa for the show you don't. It doesn't make you bad people it's human nature and commonly done amongst sports teams . But the hyperbole is getting tiresome and from my perspective skews criticism to off-base territory.
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Post by Texas Tornado on Jan 3, 2017 13:21:32 GMT -5
Why is your judgement the more level one? And yes, they are under one corporate umbrella but they are written by two different writing teams, directed by different people and have different casts/rosters, they are made to be compared to each other as well as compliment each other in theory. Much like there is the MCU, WWE has created their own Universe with different branches. Iron Man, Captain America, GotG, and Ant Man to WWE's Raw, SDL, NXT, 205, and soon the UK show. Simply put, my judgement is more level imo because it avoids hyperbole. I always thought that sd is better but it's not holy shit best thing ever. But I can also give Raw it's due when point out good stuff. It isn't offensively bad. There's still plenty to like. But in regards to one umbrella, when you separate the two into brand vs brand, biases form, you pick a side and point out all of the positives with minimal acknowledgement of the negatives for the show you prefer and vice versa for the show you don't. It doesn't make you bad people it's human nature and commonly done amongst sports teams . But the hyperbole is getting tiresome and from my perspective skews criticism to off-base territory. There are plenty of people in this thread voicing their opinion without hyperbole, though.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jan 3, 2017 13:47:58 GMT -5
SD isn't perfect but at least I see signs that they try to correct some problems. American Alpha is kinda struggling? Let's get behind them and put the belts on them. Styles is over? Put the WWE title on him. See the thing is SD has such a thin overall roster that the PPVs are a bit lacking and have to have a great main event to carry the show. Raw does have enough people to put on a decent PPV from a wrestling standpoint, but the week to week TV is so illogical and the roster is so poorly put together from a heel/face perspective that the weekly TV is painful.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jan 3, 2017 13:48:19 GMT -5
Why is your judgement the more level one? And yes, they are under one corporate umbrella but they are written by two different writing teams, directed by different people and have different casts/rosters, they are made to be compared to each other as well as compliment each other in theory. Much like there is the MCU, WWE has created their own Universe with different branches. Iron Man, Captain America, GotG, and Ant Man to WWE's Raw, SDL, NXT, 205, and soon the UK show. Simply put, my judgement is more level imo because it avoids hyperbole. I always thought that sd is better but it's not holy shit best thing ever. But I can also give Raw it's due when point out good stuff. It isn't offensively bad. There's still plenty to like. But in regards to one umbrella, when you separate the two into brand vs brand, biases form, you pick a side and point out all of the positives with minimal acknowledgement of the negatives for the show you prefer and vice versa for the show you don't. It doesn't make you bad people it's human nature and commonly done amongst sports teams . But the hyperbole is getting tiresome and from my perspective skews criticism to off-base territory. But with that very first sentence, you're doing the exact same thing you are condemning everyone else for, "My opinion is the only correct one because...". You have ignored every post on why people like something to blow something you aren't fond of up, only contributing to the very issue you are railing against. This is all opinion, from how we form it to what we like to how we feel about the rest but when it breaks down into something more closely resembling something banned here, we end up with people not caring why someone might have liked RAW, people not caring why people liked SDL and bunch of bullshit spread between the those two parties while the rest of bang our damned heads off our desks, keyboards, tablets and/or the nearest wall.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Jan 3, 2017 13:52:19 GMT -5
I can honestly say I've never seen a popular opinion and thought "that's my opinion now!". Who even does that? Lol
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Perd
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Post by Perd on Jan 3, 2017 13:54:04 GMT -5
I like SDL better than Raw. I like it better because I think it's a better show. It's not anymore complicated than that.
I do think SDL hit a bit of a rut around TLC, but the past two weeks have been great.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 13:57:24 GMT -5
Don't agree with your assessment in regards to Meltzer pied pipering the forum along to our stances on Raw/Smackdown/NXT. Papa Meltzer is actually quite cold to NXT and Smackdown most of the time. The enthusiasm for both around here definitely doesn't reflect Meltzer's opinion, he's big on the Takeovers usually, but he's relatively nonplussed about the weekly shows. Can it not be as simple as people don't like Raw and like Smackdown and not some underlying mind control? I used Meltzer as an example but he was not my focus. Things like "Dolph Ziggler is a disgrace" went from being a joke into gospel around here. If enough people proclaim Bayley as a hack, folks will follow along. Not saying we are a hivemind but we do fall victim to peer pressure at some point. I like both Raw and Smackdown. Both got their strengths and weaknesses. Both got wrestlers I can't wait to see and those who I hate. Seeing folks wishing for Raw to fail but forgeting that Smackdown's success still works in Raw's favor reminds of those who claim that NXT is not part of WWE. You can like one show more than the other. But at the end of the day, it's all part of Vince's empire. For me personally it's impossible not to compare one to the other, when Smackdown/NXT are such clean and simple shows and Raw is so chaotic and scrambled it's just hard for me not to wonder what goes on over there that gets things so out of control. And I don't really mind the dichotomy, I like the idea that Raw is the chaotic political minefield and Smackdown is the serene wrestling haven, but it's just Raw's execution where the characters look like juvenile morons all the time that makes it such a hard watch. Otherwise I agree there are folks who could stand to read over what they're saying and be mindful of being a bit too bandwagony/hyperbolic but there's usually a grain of truth to what they're saying anyways. I think Dolph's a great wrestler and not really deserving of the shaming he gets around here, but at the same time I can agree that even though I like him as the try hard babyface that he is, I can see why people see him as a failure in this role at this point given how much he loses. But Raw had everybody that first show in since the draft, and then lost everyone immediately. I don't buy the idea that most of us are wanting them to fail, I think they earned the diminished interest even if it is quite over the top some of the time. EDIT: Also I think it's worth noting that post-draft everyone expected Smackdown to be a go-nowhere loser show and that Raw was unfairly stacked, where we are now goes against what the preconceived notion was when the brands were established.
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 3, 2017 14:09:30 GMT -5
Raw really, _really_ dropped the ball on supporting what many thought was their Plan A for the latter half of the year. Finn Balor disappeared completely from Raw after he relinquished the title and he's not been mentionedon Raw since, let alone featured on status reports or anything similar. It disturbs me to no end that they would essentially ignore what some were calling the future Face of the Company(tm) throughout the rehab period (though it's not like he's been sitting idly at home through it all, if you believe his Twitter and Instagram feeds). This does not bode well, I fear, for what they've got planned for him when he does return. That, there, is the single biggest waste of goodwill and anticipation and emotional investment by fans in an incoming star in years. For that alone, I hope the WWE UK title tournament fails utterly.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 14:15:06 GMT -5
Raw really, _really_ dropped the ball on supporting what many thought was their Plan A for the latter half of the year. Finn Balor disappeared completely from Raw after he relinquished the title and he's not been mentionedon Raw since, let alone featured on status reports or anything similar. It disturbs me to no end that they would essentially ignore what some were calling the future Face of the Company(tm) throughout the rehab period (though it's not like he's been sitting idly at home through it all, if you believe his Twitter and Instagram feeds). This does not bode well, I fear, for what they've got planned for him when he does return. That, there, is the single biggest waste of goodwill and anticipation and emotional investment by fans in an incoming star in years. For that alone, I hope the WWE UK title tournament fails utterly. That's classic pro wrestling though, out of sight, out of mind, so his comeback scores the biggest pop possible.
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Post by StuntGranny® on Jan 3, 2017 14:22:26 GMT -5
This is going to sound pretentious as all hell, but I don't even really consider WWE "real wrestling" anymore. To me, they have finally morphed into an entertainment company that just so happens to feature the occasional wrestling match.
They're basically the Wal-Mart of the wrestling world. They want to move in and wipe out anything that might threaten their business. They've done this in this past and it's the reason they're doing the UK tournament. They want complete domination. They are easy to access, so because of that, they're going to have and keep a big fan base. They don't give a shit about the majority of their workers and they know you likely won't go anywhere else, so they don't need to respect you as a fan/customer.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Jan 3, 2017 14:24:33 GMT -5
Simply put, my judgement is more level imo because it avoids hyperbole. I always thought that sd is better but it's not holy shit best thing ever. But I can also give Raw it's due when point out good stuff. It isn't offensively bad. There's still plenty to like. But in regards to one umbrella, when you separate the two into brand vs brand, biases form, you pick a side and point out all of the positives with minimal acknowledgement of the negatives for the show you prefer and vice versa for the show you don't. It doesn't make you bad people it's human nature and commonly done amongst sports teams . But the hyperbole is getting tiresome and from my perspective skews criticism to off-base territory. But with that very first sentence, you're doing the exact same thing you are condemning everyone else for, "My opinion is the only correct one because...". You have ignored every post on why people like something to blow something you aren't fond of up, only contributing to the very issue you are railing against. This is all opinion, from how we form it to what we like to how we feel about the rest but when it breaks down into something more closely resembling something banned here, we end up with people not caring why someone might have liked RAW, people not caring why people liked SDL and bunch of bullshit spread between the those two parties while the rest of bang our damned heads off our desks, keyboards, tablets and/or the nearest wall. Oh I realize this is all my opinion. Perhaps my wording is off, but In just trying to explain why I THINK my opinion is more valid not that it IS. I haven't ignored every post. I even made sure to use "imo" frequently.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 3, 2017 14:34:02 GMT -5
Don't agree with your assessment in regards to Meltzer pied pipering the forum along to our stances on Raw/Smackdown/NXT. Papa Meltzer is actually quite cold to NXT and Smackdown most of the time. The enthusiasm for both around here definitely doesn't reflect Meltzer's opinion, he's big on the Takeovers usually, but he's relatively nonplussed about the weekly shows. Can it not be as simple as people don't like Raw and like Smackdown and not some underlying mind control? I used Meltzer as an example but he was not my focus. Things like "Dolph Ziggler is a disgrace" went from being a joke into gospel around here. If enough people proclaim Bayley as a hack, folks will follow along. Not saying we are a hivemind but we do fall victim to peer pressure at some point. I like both Raw and Smackdown. Both got their strengths and weaknesses. Both got wrestlers I can't wait to see and those who I hate. Seeing folks wishing for Raw to fail but forgeting that Smackdown's success still works in Raw's favor reminds of those who claim that NXT is not part of WWE. You can like one show more than the other. But at the end of the day, it's all part of Vince's empire. Don't you dare speak sense.
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Jan 3, 2017 14:38:49 GMT -5
Raw is too long and puts too much focus on characters I don't care about. SmackDown is the right length for me and has a lot of my favourite people on the roster.
That's why I prefer SmackDown to Raw, simple as. I also think SmackDown tells better week-to-week stories, which I feel is massively important.
I don't think Raw is always terrible (this week I thought was decent) and SmackDown is always great (it's currently on a roll of good episodes but there's been a few weak ones too), I also don't really care which one WWE "wants" me to like or if the internet likes it.
I have my own feelings and opinions, as do you, and that's perfectly fine. We're entitled to do that.
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Post by Branimal on Jan 3, 2017 14:58:28 GMT -5
The extra hour has a looooot to do with why people think RAW is so much worse. If SmackDown was three hours it would drag too. I can't watch a TV a show for that long. That's my problem with it as well. I prefer Smackdown most likely because of its length, but also because I seem to like almost everyone on the show. While Smackdown also has its fair share of recaps and commercials, it just seems to go by much faster. That being said, I have no problem with PPVs as I usually have friends over. We eat food and socialize, so the events don't seem nearly as long. Smackdown is the only thing I watch every week. I just can't keep up anymore. There's far too much stuff. I know that's such a typical complaint but I just don't have interest in watching everything anymore and that bums me out.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Jan 3, 2017 15:13:30 GMT -5
It's that third hour, man.
Scratch it and the product would organically improve upon itself tenfold. I used to think PPVs being three hours back in the day were long. Now they're five. And RAWs are overstuffed with promos and segments to make up for that third hour.
SD is far from perfect but it's fresh..and honestly the only WWE programming I can stand today.
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 3, 2017 15:34:24 GMT -5
Raw really, _really_ dropped the ball on supporting what many thought was their Plan A for the latter half of the year. Finn Balor disappeared completely from Raw after he relinquished the title and he's not been mentionedon Raw since, let alone featured on status reports or anything similar. It disturbs me to no end that they would essentially ignore what some were calling the future Face of the Company(tm) throughout the rehab period (though it's not like he's been sitting idly at home through it all, if you believe his Twitter and Instagram feeds). This does not bode well, I fear, for what they've got planned for him when he does return. That, there, is the single biggest waste of goodwill and anticipation and emotional investment by fans in an incoming star in years. For that alone, I hope the WWE UK title tournament fails utterly. That's classic pro wrestling though, out of sight, out of mind, so his comeback scores the biggest pop possible. But they haven't mentioned him _at all_. It's as if he had never been there. They could have done so much better creatively if they had acknowledged him - Owens could be told once in a while that it took Trips to help him get that title; Rollins, that he couldn't win the title when he was left to his own defenses and when it would have meant something. Roman Reigns, ffs, running roughshod all over Raw, _lost_ to Finn in Balor's first singles match on the main roster. Maybe it was intended to take some pressure off Fergal to heal up properly before his return - and perhaps there was a real fear there that the shoulder injury was a career-ender - but some of that could have been incorporated into the storylines if they'd just given it some thought. Sami Zayn could have cut his teeth on Rollins for what happened to his friend. Owens and Jericho could have worked some zinger promos on the fact that Balor was injured and that Rollins still couldn't get the job done. Reigns could have been taken down a peg or two by even other Club members keen on getting their founder over. It could have been, at worst (if he couldn't come back,) someone's Magnum TA moment in using a friend's injury to get the rub, or at best, when he came back, it would be the "Oh, shit - it's the Time of Reckoning" moment. I'm not sure that any of that is possible, now. Rollins really isn't the deserving face to invoke Balor; Reigns is getting X-Pac heat; KO and Jericho are slowly making the Universal title an afterthought now that they've got a tandem comedy act going. Raw may be the kind of place to need Balor, but does it deserve him?
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